Reddit Reddit reviews 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed (Turning Points in Ancient History)

We found 11 Reddit comments about 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed (Turning Points in Ancient History). Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.

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1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed (Turning Points in Ancient History)
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11 Reddit comments about 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed (Turning Points in Ancient History):

u/xepa105 · 109 pointsr/MapPorn

This is actually really inaccurate according to all archaeological and historical (ancient or modern) data.

For starters the scale is out of whack. The city should not stretch all the way across the peninsula. Here is a map showing how big the Troad peninsula was, Troy only occupied a small portion of it, not this huge metropolis.

Another example showing the rivers and the famed Plain of Troy.

Here it is on Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/39%C2%B057'27.0%22N+26%C2%B014'20.0%22E/@39.9575,26.238889,2792m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d39.9575!4d26.238889?hl=en

There is also zero evidence of that inner harbour/lake at Troy VIIh (the "Homeric Troy") or any of the other levels of Troy. The plain was fed by a pair of rivers that converged very near Troy and flowed into the inner bay. They could use and divert those rivers, but never in such a scale. The harbours used were the natural bay where the rivers debouched and a smaller one facing the Aegean. There were also none of those little artificial lakes around Troy.

The city was also very different. For starters there was no castle with a moat around it, the citadel was a complex of palaces and religious houses that looked the same as the lower city houses only were bigger, richer, and more opulent. This is a close up of what the citadel might have looked like (of which there is a lot of excavated ground): http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/images/MiddleEast/Anatolia/Troy_City_VIh_02_full.jpg

OP is correct in saying that the citadel was once believed to be all, but that recently more has been found. However, it's not as expansive as the illustration suggests. This is the boring archaeological diagram of what has been excavated so far, and you can see the outlines of an outer wall (called the Lower City wall). It's significant, and Troy was likely one of the biggest cities in the ancient Near East (with 5,000 to 10,000 people), and the way the city is set up basically proves that the culture was a lot more Hittite than Mycenean Greek or anything else. So a lot has been learned over the past couple of decades.

This is the best and most faithful representation of what Troy VII might have looked like: http://forum.boinaslava.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=26810&d=1413378933

I love that people can be excited about Troy as the real city that it was, not just the legend, and there's a lot to still discover about it, but I think it's important to be cautious about how it's portrayed. Especially in such a historical period where archaeology is so necessary, it's easy to take a little thing, a tiny piece of evidence, and blow it out of proportion; for example seeing any evidence of using river water for crops and jumping to the conclusion that Trojans were master canal builders - there's no solid evidence of the kind. It's easy to mythologize Bronze Age civilizations, especially Troy, but reality is, unfortunately, less glamorous; however, its complexities can still blow you away if you don't expect too much from a civilization that lived 3,500 years ago.

Source: Historian with extensive research knowledge of the Late Bronze Age Near East, including Troy.

EDIT: Well, since I've been gilded (thanks for that, by the way) I'll go the extra mile and give some book rec's for those who want to know more.

Disclaimer: Most of these are very academic-y, can be quite dense; unfortunately when it comes to this topic this is the norm, but I'll spare you guys the real dull ones. I'll start with one of the most accessible.

The Trojan War: A New History by Barry Strauss.

In Search of the Trojan War Paperback by Michael Wood.

The Trojans & Their Neighbours Paperback by Trevor Bryce.

1177 BC: The Year Civlization Collapsed by Eric H. Cline.

Greece in the Bronze Age Paperback by Emily Townsend Vermeule.

Life and Society in the Hittite World Paperback by Trevor Bryce.

u/jamillian · 28 pointsr/AskHistorians

I'm not the OP, but he/she may have been refering to Eric H Cline's 1177 BC: the year civilization collapsed which came out recently and does a good job summing up the textual and archeological evidence surround the Bronze Age Collapse

u/patron_vectras · 18 pointsr/todayilearned

Relevant books:

Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations

1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed

u/WishIHadMyOldUsernam · 9 pointsr/AskHistorians

I just finished the audio book version of this book and can't recommend it highly enough. It covers the Bronze Age collapse along with a number of theories as to its cause.

1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed (Turning Points in Ancient History) https://www.amazon.com/dp/0691140898/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_6brsub0YM09VW

u/brojangles · 7 pointsr/AskHistorians
u/geekest_cat · 5 pointsr/collapse

I recommend reading the book 1177 B.C., about the bronze age collapse. It seems that its aftereffects were a bit slow to get to other places in Europe, like this Ireland case, so the process was actually gradual, but indeed that collapse was something to think about; a sort of global economy, a resource base being depleted, climate hardships, global unrest and wars...

u/MrPrimeMover · 5 pointsr/AskAnthropology

The best books in my experience have been overviews of Aegean prehistory. There's an incredible amount of scholarship, so it's really just about finding a good overview and drilling down on specific topics/sites that interest you.

For advanced undergrads/early grads the standards are typically the Cambridge Companion to the Aegean Bronze Age, the Oxford Handbook of the Bronze Age Aegean, and Aegean Art and Architecture.

All of these can get a bit technical, especially with regards to chronology and such. Of those three Aegean Art and Architecture is probably the most readable. There are older monographs devoted to Crete specifically, but they tend to be older (like 1960's) and quite out of date.

Are you interested in a particular phase, site, or facet of the civilization? Because that would help narrow it down. Keep in mind that there are huge gaps in our understanding of the Minoans and their culture. You aren't going to find many specifics about their culture unless you go down the road of very shaky scholarship.

If your interested in the late Bronze Age collapse (which came some time after the peak of the Minoan civilization), check out the book 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed. It's new and I haven't read it myself, but it's by Eric Cline, who wrote the Oxford Handbook, so it's bound to be well researched. Might be a nice overview of part of the Bronze Age in a more digestible format.

Anyway let me know a bit more about your interests and maybe I can help a bit more. I can also dig out my old syllabi for more suggestions.

u/tcoop6231 · 3 pointsr/history

1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed (Turning Points in Ancient History)

If you want to learn about early civilization, this is a good book.

u/lacedaimon · 3 pointsr/badhistory

It's always been a difficult area to write a single book on, because there are so many factors, such as understanding each empire of the time, and what the general atmosphere was regarding trade between empires.

It's funny that you ask though, because a really great book on the very topic recently came out, and it's called "1177 B.C. The Year Civilization Collapsed.".

The boldness of the author Eric H. Cline to attribute an exact year, to me, at first seemed ridiculous, but after reading the book, I'm convinced that he's right. It's a fairly short 200 page book, and I enjoyed every page of it.

One thing, if you haven't researched "The Sea Peoples", I would recommend having at least a small understanding of who and what they were and did. It's not completely necessary, but it's helpful. This is due to the fact that so many people like to attribute the collapse of the late bronze age to them, when in fact there are many factors that play into the "systems collapse" that occurred in the late 13th, and early 12th century B.C.

Here's an Amazon link for the book:

http://www.amazon.com/1177-B-C-Civilization-Collapsed-Turning/dp/0691140898/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1398200849&sr=1-1&keywords=1177+b.c.+the+year+civilization+collapsed

Here's a wikipedia link to the "Sea Peoples".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_peoples

The entire topic of the collapse of the bronze age, is one of the most fascinating that I have encountered. What's even more incredible is that so few people know it ever happened.

I've spent a lot of time researching, and studying the topic, and if you have any questions at any time, feel free to ask.

u/TaylorS1986 · 2 pointsr/socialism

A good book on the subject is 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed.

u/halfascientist · 2 pointsr/boardgames