Reddit reviews 1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War

I was a history major. I did some extensive research on the events of 1948. While the OP's account is largely accurate, there are some extenuating omissions. Be aware that any account that portrays either the Jews or the Palestinians as fully culpable is essentially promulgating propaganda. There were the assholes, and there were the assholes. This is what happened between the assholes and the assholes:

Beginning around the 1900's Jews began immigrating from Europe to what is today Israel. There were always tensions between the Palestinians and the Jews who shared the land. After WWII, there was widespread pressure to give the Jews a homeland, so in 1947, the UN voted to grant some narrow strips of land in what is now Israel to the Jews. It should be noted that the area that was granted to the Jews is less than 50% of the size of Israel today (not including the West Bank).

When the UN vote passed, the entire Arab world was in uproar. Britain was to hand Israel over to the Jews on May, 15th 1948. Skirmishes arose between the Palestinians and Jews; these skirmishes slowly escalated into a full-scale civil war (which was not the War of Independence, as the OP asserts). Arabs states held back their attacks, promising to launch an invasion only after the British left and the Jews declared independence. The Jews, determined to realize their goal of becoming an independent state, knew they were going to declare independence. However, they feared that even with the civil war won, the Palestinian populations living right near their borders would provide aid and protection to the invading forces. In order to eliminate the threat of Palestinians aiding the Arab invasion, the Haganah (a precursor to today's Israeli Defense Force) and the Irgun (a right-wing militia) engaged in tactics ranging from the civil to the brutal aimed at ousting the Palestinians (some of whom left voluntarily). About six months after the civil war broke out, a day before the end of the British Mandate and with a sizable buffer between the Jews and the Arab states, the Jews declared Independence.

What happened on May 15th? The Arab states did indeed mount an attack on Israel, but they ultimately lost what is known by the Israelis as the War of Independence. Although they were superior in number, the Arab attack was half-assed and disorganized. Arab soldiers weren't willing to risk their lives to oust Israelis -- who were ferociously defending their land. On March 10th, 1949, the Arab states surrendered and an armistice was signed. As part of the armistice, a much larger patch of land (which is still smaller than Israel today), was extracted from the Arabs as the price of losing their invasion. The rest of what is Israel today only became part of Israel in 1967.

Also, on Deir Yassin: After any battle, the Palestinians would overestimate their losses while the Haganah and Irgun would underestimate the Palestinian losses. Deir Yassin was an anomaly because the Irgun estimate was larger than the Palestinian estimate. Researchers speculate that the Irgun overestimated the numbers to intimidate the neighboring Palestinians into leaving on their own -- which many did. While probably not the vicious massacre that was reported, Deir Yassin was nonetheless a bloody invasion.

If anybody wants to read up on this further, this is probably the most impartial book I've found: http://www.amazon.com/1948-History-First-Arab-Israeli-War/dp/0300151128/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1343631186&sr=8-2&keywords=1948


Edit: I realize that this is a very emotional issue for some, but I do my best to provide an even-handed approach. There is information here that both pro-Israel and anti-Israel people would want to downvote. If you take issue, please respond with a comment.

If you really want to know, I recommend this book: 1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War by Benny Morris.

My personal recommendation would be these books:

1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War by Benny Morris. This book covers the history of the first Arab-Israeli war, with great detail given for how the war was conducted, the events of it, and how the Israelis managed to succeed in winning the war itself. This focuses on the lead-up to war from the Civil War that had been going on before, and discusses the various fronts.

Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict: 1881-2001 by Benny Morris.

"For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, clean, and wrong."

http://www.amazon.com/Genesis-1948-First-Arab-Israeli-War/dp/B000ROI67I


http://www.amazon.com/1948-History-First-Arab-Israeli-War/dp/0300151128/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325011672&sr=1-1

I thought that Benny Morris' 1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War was an excellent account of the 1948 war. He also covers some of the pre-war history as well. I felt like it was a pretty even-handed treatment of that particular conflict.

No, Pappe is not a credible source and a review on Amazon is hardly a better one. Try someone who doesn't write history with an agenda. His work has been discredited.

There was no ethnic cleansing. There was a war that the Palestinians instigated and brought foreign armies in to fight on their behalf instead of sharing the land with their neighbors.



https://newrepublic.com/article/85344/ilan-pappe-sloppy-dishonest-historian

>At best, Ilan Pappe must be one of the world’s sloppiest historians; at worst, one of the most dishonest. In truth, he probably merits a place somewhere between the two.

You should read what Benny Morris has to say. He's a far more credible source. And while you're at it, read 1948, one of the best histories on that conflict you can get. That book is the go-to source, and Morris is the subject matter expert.

https://www.amazon.com/1948-History-First-Arab-Israeli-War/dp/0300151128

That's the best and most objective source you can find on the war.

Do you use David Irving as a source also? I would hope not. Just because someone published a book, doesn't mean it's a good source.

I see you didn't address the points I made about denying self-determination to Jews is in fact anti-Semitism, and that the American Muslim communities do indeed have a problem with anti-Semitism unrelated to Israel. Do you have anything to say about that?

>instead of feeling like you have a duty to argue this point, step back and try to actually explain to yourself why a tiny land mass like Israel needs 38 billion dollars for military operations

Ever hear of the Suez Canal? The Cold War? The aide program to Israel and Egypt which is why Israel and Egypt haven't fought a war in 40 years (something they used to do every 5-7 years prior to the US brokered 1978 Camp David Peace Deal).

Good for you for questioning things, but it seems like you have allowed yourself to follow a pretty biased and incomplete set of sources (600 babies killed in the 'Hannibal' raid - I mean come on).

And frankly

>we're all being completely duped into this shit


Is such a incomplete, shorthanded, non-nuanced view of the world that you should really stop and think about what leads you to believe you can boil complex geopolitical situations into such a tight and tidy narrative. The world is not that easy - it may be easier to believe you can see "behind the curtain" and understand the evil rich capitalists controlling the entire world like a comic book super-villain... but I submit to you that such a belief is frankly lazy and self centered.

This type of belief only allows you to feel like you have some deep understanding of the workings of the world and the multi-facted interests, dynamics, and peoples who shape history - but without the true historical knowledge to back it up.
__

>tribal loyalty and religion is extremely blinding and biasing


Is it possible that political and other beliefs are equally as blinding? Anti-Zionism doesn't have a monopoly on "truth"
___

Drugs are awesome, but try reading some books also:

>Morris's work on the Arab–Israeli conflict and especially the Israeli–Palestinian conflict has won praise and criticism from both sides of the political divide. He is accused by some academics in Israel of only using Israeli and never Arab sources, creating an "unbalanced picture".[3] Regarding himself as a Zionist, he writes, "I embarked upon the research not out of ideological commitment or political interest. I simply wanted to know what happened."[4]
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris


>This history of the foundational war in the Arab-Israeli conflict is groundbreaking, objective, and deeply revisionist. A riveting account of the military engagements, it also focuses on the war's political dimensions. Benny Morris probes the motives and aims of the protagonists on the basis of newly opened Israeli and Western documentation. The Arab side―where the archives are still closed―is illuminated with the help of intelligence and diplomatic materials.
>>https://www.amazon.com/1948-History-First-Arab-Israeli-War/dp/0300151128

Or even a documentary:

>The 50 Years War Israel And The Arabs
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSAD9pS8NIw

Being baked and learning can be fun. :)

And there are tons of other sources out there including Illan Pappe (who I hate and think does incredibly poor scholarship) and everything in between.

But please stop adopting such a, frankly, ZOG-like view of the world. Nothing is that easy, even if it can feel good when it provides a simple framework for a complex and interconnected world.

http://youtu.be/u57yxd753f8

http://youtu.be/Zm09uRDdzto

http://youtu.be/lpsxiMrgVK4

http://youtu.be/8O9AHzUKYk8

One person? Try looking online a bit, you will find hundreds of videos and descriptions of Hamas using schools, hospitals and civilian buildings as launch sites; along with Hamas telling civilians to ignore Israeli warnings to leave just to increase the body count.

One random video posted by a random user on YouTube is meaningless, for all I know you posted it and then called it out to further your antisemitic agenda.

>Nazi like colonization is simply not justifiable, you're wasting time.

Er... how much do you know about this conflict? If you think it's that simple then I suggest reading a few books on the topic, this and this and this are all good start points.

TestTube did a decent summary of what happened.

Also, why did you randomly go to this topic? We're talking about how Hamas is using human shields and how Al Jazeera, among others, have been clearly caught out in their pro-Hamas propaganda. If you can't back up your points in this argument don't try to change the topic...

I did read, mostly Morris books (The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited, and ordered this (not from amazon but that is the name of the book) ) to Kimmerling. that is why I asked for a citation.

> What is the source for what you are claiming?

1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War by Benny Morris