Reddit reviews And They Were Not Ashamed: Strengthening Marriage through Sexual Fulfillment

The book that helped us the most was "They were not ashamed" -- the author is an LDS sex therapist.

> How do you define what is "okay" and what isn't? How do you come to some conclusion on topics that you might disagree on? Or what if one partner is more experimental and exploratory than the other? What are good boundaries?

That's between the 2 of you.

You may want to try seeing a family sex therapist yourselves, to empower you with the language needed to work through this on your own.

Me and my wife were TBM's when we got married (in the temple), and therefore had not done anything more risque than french kissing before our wedding night. However, we did a lot of reading and research about the topic, and tried to be communicative about what we expected.

I recommend this book:
And They Were Not Ashamed by Laura Brotherson. She is a TBM certified family councilor, and the book is about approaching sexuality from a positive, healthy viewpoint. She confronts a lot the the problems with how the church handles sexuality very constructively.

Finally, after reading that and talking it over, we decided NOT to just plunge into things on the wedding night; to take it slowly. This is an approach I (as an ex-mormon) and my wife (still Mormon) highly recommend. The night of our wedding we were exhausted and didn't get to our hotel until late. We took turns in the bathroom changing into flannel pajamas we had acquired for the occasion, and then just cuddled until we fell asleep. No sex, and it was wonderful, since we had never slept in the same bed before!

In the morning, we woke up and made out like never before, and went all the way to second base. Super exciting! But then we packed up and drove to the lake house we had rented for the honeymoon proper.

Once we got there around 11 am, we unpacked and made lunch, and then had the rest of the day to fool around and get comfy with eachother. Lots of making out and slow revelations. I was fully prepared (and completely happy) to not go all the way for a day or two, but we ended up losing all our inhibitions by that evening and going for it.

Things go SO much better if you're not under pressure. And if you've waited this long, an extra day or two is not going to kill you!

Something I wanted to mention in the other thread that got buried is the fantastic book:

And They Were Not Ashamed: Strengthening Marriage through Sexual Fulfillment

I'll be honest, I haven't read it, but I have read the reviews and I'm considering buying it for me and my fiance. It talks about the purpose of sexual relations. It's written mainly for women, but that doesn't mean you can't get anything from it.

There was a great article on the evolution of Mormon attitudes toward masturbation in the Fall 2005 issue of the journal Sexuality & Culture

Historical Development of New Masturbation Attitudes in Mormon Culture: Silence, Secular Conformity, Counterrevolution, and Emerging Reform

I don't think it's going to immediately help your situation, but it does provide perspective that I think would be helpful to the community here.

Summary:

• In the first few decades of the church's existence, masturbation just wasn't something that the leadership spoke out about.
  
• In the late 1800s and early 1900s, church leaders made statements more or less aligning with the Victorian view that masturbation was a sign or cause of mental illness.
  
• in the 1920s and 30s, the church's position on masturbation was actually more enlightened than it is today. From the article:
  
  > A new, factually based, era in church thinking about sexuality
  and sex education appeared during the end of the 1920s and into
  the 1930s. Research physicians by then had verified a link between
  masturbation shame and mental health risks in youth who reported
  suicidal ideation associated with attempted masturbation abstinence.
  There were also documented cases of completed suicide attributed
  to psychological trauma that resulted from masturbation abstinence
  (Steckel, 1917/1953).
  
  > Official church manuals endorsed secular books about sexuality
  and suggested that sexual interests be guided rather than inhibited.
  During this time masturbation did not always carry the same onus
  that it does in the popular Mormon literature of today. Rather than
  focusing on abstinence supervision as is practiced today with current
  church youth interviewing policies, lessons instead warned
  parents that they could create emotional problems in their adolescents
  by an “unintelligent” over response to their masturbation
  (Bush, 1993).
  
  
• The church's current diversion from science on the topic of masturbation started in the 1950s when Bruce McConkie taught in Mormon Doctrine that not only was masturbation unclean, but that psychiatrists' advice was dangerous because it could persuade people not to repent. McConkie's strong anti masturbation stance would be echoed by Spencer Kimball, Boyd Packer, and others. In 1972 when the new Boy Scout manual included a paragraph about masturbation being a normal part of sexuality, the church objected so strongly that the BSA had to destroy 25,000 scout manuals and re-print them with advice to talk your sexual feelings over "with your parents and/or spiritual advisor or doctor". Part of the theme recited by youth each week at mutual included the phrase "better dead clean than alive, unclean." Boyd Packer's "little factory" talk from 1976 was turned into the 1981 pamphlet To Young Men Only, and told young men that masturbation would turn them gay. Elder Mark Peterson taught the use of aversion therapy, or even tying your wrist to the bedpost, in his guide Steps to Overcoming Masturbation.
  
• Recently, there seems to be some slight dialing back of the masturbation paranoia. The 2001 version of the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet no longer mentions masturbation by name. Laura Brotherson's guide to LDS sexuality, And They Were Not Ashamed, specifically recommends masturbation for women as "self-learning".

The book "And They Were Not Ashamed: Strengthening Marriage through Sexual Fulfillment" was written by an LDS woman who struggled with a lot of the psychological challenges to being able to enjoy sex within marriage. You should read it with your wife. The book will help you understand better where she's coming from, and may help her see her challenges a little more clearly. You should also encourage her to talk about this with someone else like a therapist. Although she probably loves and trusts you, there's probably just too much at stake for her to be able to express her feelings without holding back they way she needs to in order to deal with these beliefs.

From what I can see, there's nothing wrong with how you are approaching things. You love and care for your wife, and her sexual fulfillment is very important to you. This in no way is a problem with sexual technique, and you aren't a "failure" of a man just because your wife never has had an orgasm. She is dealing with some deep-seated emotional issues and beliefs that she needs to address before she can enjoy sex the way God meant for husbands and wives to enjoy it.

If you live in Utah, send me a private message and I can refer you to a great husband and wife licensed clinical therapist team that I'm confident would be able to help you both figure out these issues.

Sure. My top three would be these:

Sexual Wholeness in Marriage https://www.amazon.com/dp/0981957641/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_B8SDCbSKZGE3Z

What Your Parents Didn't Tell You about Sex: An LDS Guide to Sexual Intimacy https://www.amazon.com/dp/1508608873/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_RZSDCbSS6V2V4

And They Were Not Ashamed: Strengthening Marriage through Sexual Fulfillment https://www.amazon.com/dp/1587830345/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_R1SDCbHVJAKXZ

But the best known book on the subject is this:
Between Husband and Wife: Gospel Perspectives on Marital Intimacy https://www.amazon.com/dp/1680476548/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_h7SDCbRA5JWKB

"And They Were Not Ashamed"?

Here's another one.

I think I've heard of this one being Mormon friendly but still useful. I've never read it myself, but it might be worth looking into.

Sorry, had to add this:

I had a roommate that I hated (can't get into details, b/c it'll take up three solid pages of ranting) that had one of those 'sex for LDS' books called "And They Were Not Ashamed". I stole it at the end of the semester. It's sad/funny that it even exists, and books like it. It's a shame that young people in the prime of their life need to be told how to have sex. It's not that complicated, follow your instincts, enjoy yourself & your partner and stop thinking about the guilt & just DO IT.

That being said, I did have a few hang-ups once my husband & I got married. It took a little bit of time, it's almost funny how my perspective has changed about it!

It's been a few months since your original post. How's it going? Any improvements? If you haven't read, "And They Were Not Ashamed: Strengthening Marriage through Sexual Fulfillment." This is a great read for everyone!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1587830345/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_c14TDbW608SPE

Depending on what your issues are, you might find this book helpful:

https://www.amazon.com/They-Were-Not-Ashamed-Strengthening/dp/1587830345

This is another good one:

https://www.amazon.com/Between-Husband-Wife-Perspectives-Intimacy/dp/1680476548/

I haven't read this one, but it was written by the prophet's wife:

https://www.amazon.com/Purity-Passion-Spiritual-Intimacy-Strengthen/dp/1590384105/

My wife and I have this problem from time to time. We read this book together and it helped her understand me as well as teaching me a few things about her as well.

https://www.amazon.com/They-Were-Not-Ashamed-Strengthening/dp/1587830345

Exmo here. This kind of problem is extremely common in the church. It's almost universal; just about every mormon couple deals with this. And it can stick around for a long time after you leave. Wherever you are in your belief, just know that bishops aren't qualified to handle this, and "12 step" programs usually do more harm than good.

Is your therapist a licensed professional? Not just a crackpot that calls themselves one (cough LDS family services cough)? Even among professionals, it can sometimes be hard to find a therapist that is a good fit for the problem. A good therapist should have the tools to help you both navigate something like this.

If you're dead-set in your testimony (sigh), you and your wife might want to check out a book called "And They Were Not Ashamed"—make this an ongoing conversation with your wife. Don't expect it to be fixed with an overnight chat: this stuff takes years.

My biased two cents: get the hell away from that religion. The compulsive nature of things like porn goes away almost immediately when you stop thinking of it as a big deal. Mormonism has an incredibly unhealthy framework for sex: it's the taboo everyone is terrified to discuss, but prohibition breeds obsession. When you can commit adultery by thinking, and when adultery is next to murder in seriousness, it's not hard to see why your wife has a totally different perspective.

Also, is she very religious, or conservative at all? If so another great book is http://www.amazon.com/They-Were-Not-Ashamed-Strengthening/dp/1587830345

Even if she isn't, it might still help. It's a book about many of the myths that surround sex and women's sexuality. Many women, especially conservative or religious ones, have been brought up feeling that "good girls" don't have sex, or that they shouldn't enjoy it. This book also talks about how a woman's perception of her body and her sexuality can change after having children. Not only is she more tired, but she may have a hard time seeing herself as a mom and as sexual at the same time.

We make fun of this book a lot, but if her primary hangup is church (and not, as some have mentioned, being asexual or something similar), it might help, as it's pretty tame. http://www.amazon.com/And-They-Were-Ashamed-Strengthening/dp/1587830345

Ok I am not about to suggest what I am about to suggest, because I feel that ultimatums are harmful to relationships: You need to make it clear that the relationship is not working for you. You need to tell her that you are thinking about moving on to a relationship that is healthier because you cannot stand to see her harming herself by turning away from something good in life that is right and wholesome and is even approved by the church. Tell her that, and then tell her that you just want her to read a book, and then if she still feels the same way, then you and her will have to make adult decisions because the current situation is harming your relationship and your self image. Then give her this book:

And they were not ashamed

And then be prepared for her to be unwilling to change, and put on your big boy pants and do what you need to do to be happy and healthy.