Reddit reviews Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life
We found 86 Reddit comments about Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
Great product!
I'm posting this from the perspective of a pastor (which I am), so if you want to dm me, feel free.
That kind of fixation on the SF/fantasy strikes me as unhealthy and there may be deeper issues (I realize that that is fairly obvious). When dealing with a person who is fixated like this, it's not your responsibility to change them nor are you at all responsible for her freaking out. It is also very unlikely that you can get through to them.
My advice would be to set up a boundary regarding the behavior you find bothering you, in this case, the lecturing, yelling, long phone calls, etc. Something like "I understand that this is a big issue for you, but I am not willing to talk to you about it." Give her no wiggle room, and if she persists, tell her something like "I said I am not willing to talk about it, and since you are insisting on talking about this, I am going to hang up." Click.
That's honestly going to be the best place to start (all of this is contingent on me not really knowing you or your situation, so take it with a grain of salt). If she realizes that you aren't willing (that word, willing, is important) to listen to her regarding this issue, she may stop brining it up. Also realize that it will be difficult at first. Have someone you can talk to when you start lay down this boundary.
Hopefully, you will start to feel the freedom of knowing you don't actually have to talk to her about this. Since it has such an impact on your emotional health, imagine what that would be like!
I also highly recommend Boundaries. Might be overkill in your situation, but there is lots of good stuff.
Congratulations on your upcoming wedding. :) And also on your restraint. ;)
Sounds like your father in law can be a bit judgmental and difficult to deal with. Especially considering you called him out on his own behavior and instead of manning up to it and discussing it rationally with you he basically said he was above you and doesn't need to talk to you like a human being. Sad.
My thoughts on this are, you will have to deal with this man for a lifetime. And you do not want to make your wife miserable by starting anything with her father. However, in your life together you and your new wife will be making decisions as a unit - the two of you. It is really your fiancé who needs to be able to establish boundaries with her family about how much of their advice she is willing to take. (This is all tangential to the main issue you raised... about cohabiting... which to me isn't that big a deal especially considering your reasons for doing it. I'm more thinking about the general trend in the leaving and cleaving and how that's going to shake down in the upcoming years.)
There is a good book I really recommend - not sure if the father in law is the controlling type but if he is:
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
I really like the book boundaries. It changes the way you think about and act in relationships. It’s all logical, but if you’ve never thought about your relationship that way it’s a new way of doing things.
You are an adult. You get to choose how your mother treats you and interacts in your life. Draw some firm boundaries there and if she can’t abide them she will have consequences.
People with no boundaries and people with boundaries that are to intense suffer. You need to find the middle. So, for instance, if you don’t want her to kiss baby then say ‘it’s flu season and I’m not comfortable with you kissing baby. If you do kiss him, I’m going to have to hold him or put him in his swing’...and then do that. If she’s speaking about you in a disparaging way (your mom is being silly. Who raised her. Etc) calmly say that you are this child’s mother and you will raise this child according to your own guidelines, just like she got to raise her kids according to hers. If she can’t respect that, then maybe it’s best for her to leave and come back another time when she can respect your rules.
Be kind, but firm. It’s great practice because when baby is 2/3 you will get to do lots of work establishing and maintaining boundaries.
Not a lawyer but a Christian: this is a good book about healthy boundaries written by some smart Christians. Maybe she'd be receptive to it. Helped me out a lot way back in High School.
In my opinion, talking to family about a fight between spouses is very inappropriate. Having a mentor that is not invested in the relationship would be ideal if she absolutely has to talk to someone. Have you read the book Boundaries together?
Regardless of whether you should take a second job, it's just none of their business. Set up some boundaries with your family. Check out this book.
Honestly moon, sounds like your friend is codependent.
I used to be in a similar relationship and I didn't leave until one day it just "broke," like I just saw her for what she really is/was and realized it would never get any better. Don't know what else to say. I've heard good things about this book.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0310247454
I lurk here for advice on how to deal with people in my life.
My atheist friend described us "Christian folk" (such a cute title) as bad with boundaries. It is very true.
The Boundaries book was really helpful to me and remains so.
When I mention my work in trying to build better boundaries, my Mom will say it sounds cold. 😔
Christians generally want to be loving to everyone and narcs can easily use that to manipulate.
Edit to add Amazon link Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life https://smile.amazon.com/dp/0310247454/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_KVpBCbVBAFVCD
(I support World Vision with Amazon Smile)
I suggest you pick up the book Boundaries, by Henry Cloud. It should help you understand your parents' motivations as well as how to handle the situation.
As you are an adult: respecting your dad doesn't mean that you can't make your own decisions. Honoring your parents doesn't mean they are allowed to control you. You will likely have to sit down with them and have some difficult conversations. You can do this in a loving and respectful manner, while at the same time setting healthy boundaries.
/u/jonathan_c asks if you're still living with them. If you are, and you can't work things out through respectful discussion, it may be worth getting your own place. This may be painful, but keep in mind that you can't control how your parents react--only how you act.
What if 5 years from now you want a house for yourself? You will not be able to get a second mortgage. Will you kick out your brother to sell that house? You might benefit from reading this book http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
Boundaries
Set them.
EDIT: Or, spend money on pre-marriage couples counseling. Not the wedding, not one dollar.
My wife comes from a terrible family. I didn't realize how bad it was before we got married. They just about ruined our marriage the first few years. But we learned to set some boundaries, and kept them. and we have had an amazing relationship since.
First get this book: http://amzn.to/1UMl0G7
It has some very christian undertones to it (great if you are christian, a bit much if you are not) BUT I have not found a better book on how to learn to set boundaries. then you and he set some serious boundaries with his mom. See if he is willing to keep those boundaries. If he lets them get broken over and over again, then probably need to step away. if he is able to keep them, you probably will have a great future together.
I was 27.
At that point both my parents were gone and all of my grandparents were gone and I didn't have anyone left to protect me from her and her flying monkeys. I finally put her on speaker, surreptitiously, so that my friend could hear the stuff she was saying. His response was that's fucked. From there I started looking for resources on how to deal with her. I found two books Children of the Self Absorbed by Nina Brown and Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. That's the first time I saw the word abuse used to describe what she was doing. I knew from about 6 that there was something wrong with her and I lived with all of her shit without ever understanding what was going on.
This book helped me to become a reformed people pleaser: Boundaries
Dr. Gabor Maté’s book “When the Body Says No” talks about the link between trauma (particularly abuse - emotional or physical) and migraines and IBS and I was FLOORED. I suffer from both and am also in the boat of thinking my childhood wasn’t that bad. In reality, I suppose I didn’t recognize how greatly my family’s issues and struggles affected me and I’ve likely buried some memories so deep down that I don’t remember them super clearly. Sometimes I worry that something worse happened and I blocked the memory.
The enneagram and Boundaries have helped me slowly start to identify my personal weaknesses and needs. Still have migraines and IBS though so maybe therapy is in order too!
Edit: The Boundaries book is super Christian but that’s how I was raised (maybe that was the trauma, haha) so it explains a lot for me.
this book will help. Read and apply it.
Short answer, be consistent. Start with setting a new expectation. “Baby, I love you and our relationship rocks. There’s one thing that’s been getting on my nerves, though. [insert explanation about him eating faster then you and therefore getting more food even when you split the bill]. I’d like us to agree on 50/50 from now on, or simply to order two separate orders if you feel like you’re going to still be hungry. Does that work for you?” Get his agreement and understanding, then stick to it. Refer to the conversation if he starts to beg. “Remember baby, we talked about this. Just because I eat less food then you at once doesn’t mean I won’t eat it later and I really look forward to leftovers. Do you want to order something else?”
There is nothing noble in enabling irresponsibility in other people. Set boundaries with your friends and don't let them make their responsibilities yours.
Tell them to ask for their own damn napkins and keep yours to yourself.
btw, I like this book a lot. If you find this pattern with your friends, you might be dealing with lack of boundaries in other areas of your life, so I recommend giving this a read. (I'd suggest every human being read it, especially idealists like NFs)
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
This book helped me A LOT.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0310247454/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1501342010&sr=1-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=Dr.+Henry+Cloud&dpPl=1&dpID=41cX7krXwwL&ref=plSrch
Boundaries by Dr Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend
This book should have some advice for you and your wife on setting clear boundaries and expectations with your father in law.
EDIT: Here is the writeup on this book from Dave Ramsey, which is who (whom?) I have heard recommend it.
Wish you the best in your situation!
I've heard a guy named Dave Ramsey recommend the book Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud a LOT to people dealing with these types of family issues. You/FDH may be interested to read it?
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
https://www.cloudtownsend.com/what-do-you-mean-boundaries-by-dr-henry-cloud-and-dr-john-townsend/
I’m really sorry for what he’s put you through. You didn’t deserve to be lied to or disrespected. He definately left out A LOT of context by excluding his history of bad finacial choices.
I know this isn’t /r/ relationships but I’m going to give you the same advice that I’ve given to people over there: Date someone for who they are right now, not for who you hope they’ll turn into one day. Most people don’t make major changes in lifestyle, personality, or behavior. People only make big changes if they genuinly want to make a change for themsleves. They certainly don’t change just because someone else wants them to, not even a significant other. In other words: Don’t date a project!
If being more financially responsible and being honest was a priority for him than he would have taken steps to do those things by now. He hasn’t because they’re not priorities for him. And if he comes to you with promises of change now that you’ve broken up with him I can’t tell you wether or not they’re ones he’ll follow through on. You know him best. But don’t be surprised if you take him back and after a few weeks/months he gets comfortable and goes back to his previous behaviors.
> But I'm a total giver. ... I will buy them whatever they need. I love them. I help bc I don't want people to ever feel like I felt when I was a kid. This is a personality flaw. My ex owes me $1k, etc. I'm a sucker.
It sounds like you need to learn how to set and maintain boundaries with other people when it comes to money. Generosity is a virtue, but if you are being so generous that you are enabling other poor financial choices to the point thah its hurting your finances or mental/emotional wellbeing then it crosses the line into a problem. And yes, you were eneabling your BF, just like his mom does, by loaning him money whenever he runs out.
You need to learn how to say no to people- being a kind, generous person does not mean being a doormat. I’d encourage you to look into a few theraphy sessions to go over this issue (though I totally understand that not everyone can afford that). If that’s not an option the book Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life and it’s companion workbook are good reads (it has some religious undertones but the lessons on setting boundaries can apply to anyone).
Tynap- you sound like a kind, honest, hardworking, responsible woman who has her life together. Don’t sell yourself short by settling for a life partner who doesn’t live up to the standards you hold yourself to.
Assertiveness might be more straightforward to address than an inner monster. There's more material available on it; it's better understood in the popular discourse as something that anyone who doesn't already have it needs to develop.
Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life. I can vouch for this one personally. It's a pretty comprehensive treatment of how and why people don't develop or respect healthy boundaries and what you can do about it.
That book comes from a Christian tradition. Much of it is secular, but some of the motivating statements and theoretical framework is in terms of Christian theology. I'm agnostic leaning atheist, but I actually found that part of the book opened my eyes to the fact that there are some Christian people in the USA who use their beliefs as a basis to do some hard work on themselves. A useful experience on its own, for what that's worth.
Supporting skills:
That is the obvious and straightforward path, the one that in my experience and opinion is most likely to get you to where you want to be. If the language of the Jungian shadow appeals to you, you can also try approaching it in terms of facing up to who exactly it is that you don't want to be - but think about trying that after you've given the straightforward approach a fair shake.
Please check out the book Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud. Fantastic book for understanding relationships between family members, regardless of the circumstances.
> something about my E-mom makes me feel literally sick, like nauseous to my stomach.
There is a reason why our Gut is known as our second brain. Listen to your gut, it will never lie to you. There's a reason why you feel "sick to your stomach".
> maybe she is a covert N, the self-martyring type of N, who gets the N-supply through self-martyrdom
Your birth giver sounds like a covert N. it sounds like she uses the guise of "helping" to exert control and power over you. Also, I agree, it is a form of N-supply. N's need their egos fed and the best way is to get someone indebted to them or someone singing their praises.
> if she has ever agreed to do something with me, she will drop me like a hot potato the second literally anyone else comes and wants her attention.
because you aren't a person to your birth giver. you are an object she takes out to manipulate and play with. Have you ever seen a toddler play? the moment something better comes along, that toy is immediately dropped and discarded. that toy is you. It's a horrible reality, but N's are horrible people.
> She also walks into my room in the mornings, and wakes me up whenever she wants, like if I am sleeping in late, which is something I was only doing because it was the holidays. She will just knock and then open the door, she has no respect for my boundaries AT ALL.
I would suggest reading books about healthy boundaries and how to firmly establish them. If you want to take it a step furthur, I would suggest speaking to a competent mental health professional.
> I get phone calls SPECIFICALLY for preaching...no I'm serious 30-45 minute calls with my mom and dad passing the phone back and forth to tell me Bible scripture and how I'm a bad person,
Ok, I'm going to change my assessment from 'toxic' to flat out crazy, based on this. This is disrespectful and not the way one human being treats another, I don't care who the participants are. You have been wise to distance yourself geographically, now set those boundaries. You might want to write them a long letter telling them how you feel, and what you will not be putting up with anymore from this moment forward. That kind of stuff would include the preaching/ranting, and trying to make you feel bad about anything (especially not being pregnant yet). This kind of stuff is waaaaay over the line. I recommend this book by a Christian psychologist to help you figure out how to deal with them going forward.
>I feel like setting any boundaries for her makes me controlling.
This is an absolutist view that is just going to get in the way of your being able to set healthy boundaries in the future: I admit that I haven't read this book myself yet, but I see it recommended a lot, so maybe try it: Boundaries
It sounds like you're also having some anxiety about your significance, and could do with some reassurance from her.
She originally put the work in to stop partying and taking drugs once she knew it was a condition of dating you, which would of course have made you feel valuable, but now she's stopped. & now you've just mentioned that you feel like you're subtracting fun from her life if you reiterate that the drugs boundary is important to you. Sounds a bit like you're worried you're not exciting enough on your own.
Basically try and learn about boundary-setting so you can be self-aware about it, but you probably need to sit and have a talk with her.
I completely agree with whoever in this thread said that her choices are her choices: I completely understand why you're concerned about her not applying herself to studying to be a surgeon, you want the best for her, etc, but that really is her problem and not yours. The drug-taking as a personal value of yours should be the only topic when you talk to her.
>why does he continue to fucking do this
Because he can. Your mother never left him. Your brother lives with him. You returned home to him. Has his alcoholism cost him anything that he really cares about?
You might find these two books helpful.
Codependent No More
Boundaries
Boundaries, this book has helped me SO much. It helped with self-esteem somewhat as well because I finally felt like I could say NO.
Edit: Forgot to note it has a lot of "christian" talk in it. I just ignored it and applied it to my life and it was fine.
It does seem like a big deal, and you're right to feel exhausted.
So here's my advice - you have to find a way to stop giving a shit.
I know that sounds facile and a bit like an asshole, but its the truth. Your sister is a grown adult who is being shielded from the consequences of her actions on a regular basis. I understand that everyone wants to help - your mom, you, the driving, the medical card, the tuxedo.
It sounds to me like you were raised in a family not unlike my own. I've come to realize recently, through therapy and a lot of introspection, that I internalized the idea that love = taking care of someone. And while that's not untrue, it puts you in the position you're in now. Protecting your sister from her choices, instead of letting it be her own problem. And I get it too, you know the fallout from not helping, when she really screws something up and ends up in a bad spot. I've also been on the receiving end of it too, and realize how it has affected me.
I often recommend people on here to read the book Boundaries. It has a religious slant, but even if that's not your thing it is very useful.
You cannot change your sister (or your mother, for that matter). But what you can change is how you let it all affect you.
i highly recommend the book called boundaries. while i'm not religious in any sense it was a good book to help me better understand my mother and why she cannot just say no to my sister and others.it might help your fiancé and also congrats on your wedding.
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1452202838&sr=8-2&keywords=boundaries+learning+to+say+no
I can't offer any advice - only empathy.
My oldest son recently graduated - barely.
He got into a crowd that did a lot of drugs. He started smoking a lot more weed and the harder stuff came.
He'd been stealing for years but we never noticed it.
After some domestic violence issues we told him he had a week after he turned 18 to find another place to live.
He's now living with my exwife - his mother. I was hoping that getting away from some of his more influential friends would help derail a few things but he seems determined to continue in that direction despite his future being in jeopardy.
I have no solution for you. No solace.
This book gave me a whole new perspective on my role in his life.
Good luck.
They have general and more specific versions. I highly HIGHLY recommend reading it.
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
Forgiving is not forgetting. I highly recommend the book Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud. It goes into this subject with great detail, and it helped me get through some very difficult times with my narcissistic mother.
>My thoughts are that he's a grown person, living under my roof, so he's either going to eat what we have or get a job and buy his own food.
I completely agree!
Put a boundary and tell him this is the case and this is what you will do as this is your house and your money. Either he can be grateful and accept it (as it is not a punishment or anything - people thrive on plants) or he can move out/buy own food/or whatever degree of manning up/ungratefulness he can afford.
You need a book: Boundaries.
Love and respect are what relationships are built on. Love means sacrificing your needs and wants for hers. Sounds like you think she's great (respect) and that's a good start but you have to let her be herself and have friends and relationships other than with you.
That said, there are a few different things you can do. First be honest with her about how you are feeling. And don't be angry just be honest that her hanging out with this guy gives you anxiety. Ask her if she would be willing to set some boundaries with this person like not meeting one on one or inviting you to hang out with the two of them so you can get to know him and get more comfortable with the two of them being friends. One question though, is this guy an ex-boyfriend? In my opinion, if he's an ex it's fair to just ask her to stop talking to him altogether. But regardless, don't freak out, just gather more information and calmly ask your SO to set some boundaries.
edit: also, read the book Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud it is amazing and it will change your life and relationships for the better. https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
Oh man, where to start...
Here is the easy suggestion:
Here is the hard suggestion: Develop better inner strength and personal boundary. Here is a short list. We are not all that different than domestic abuse victims, we tend to play down or rationalize the abuse and go back for more ("It will be different this time" or "I must give him another chance" or "I will do thing differently this time"). I am no saint myself. You need to confront the real reason why you are willingly participate your cycle of abuse, because all of the reason you gave for going back to live with them can be achieved by living with a friend, short term rental, or hotel. Despite how your privacy is important to you, you still decide to risk it (your mind is probably made up about living at home despite whatever I say) and hoping to band-it it with some quick fix.
Protecting yourself and your life take a lot of effort and a lot of inner strength. It is really hard and sometimes it hurts. Your family has not yet earn the privilege of having you living at home. You are a precious person, your life your way, and if you don't see yourself as such, then you are only going to get hurt.
It was a process that started when I read the book linked below. You can simultaneously have healthy boundaries and care. You just understand what's your responsibility and what is not, and that it's OK to say "no". You stop taking on other people's responsibilities and burdens, both emotionally and physically. Those around you will be surprised and not happy when they start, for the first time, to hear you say no. (There are nifty ways to say no that soften the blow for example "I'm sorry but that doesn't work for me").
Being without healthy boundaries does not equal "being a good person" it just means you don't have healthy boundaries. For instance, you can't be a good parent without healthy boundaries.
https://www.amazon.ca/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
By the way, if you're going to try to develop boundaries you have to also learn the tactics that manipulators use to try to control you because those types will challenge your boundaries constantly. Eg: Guilt tripping or playing the victim. You see a lot of those two in progressive politics. We are now supposed to feel guilty for things that happened hundreds of years ago! LOL. ("Manipulator" is just a fancy word for bully). >>>>https://www.amazon.ca/Sheeps-Clothing-Understanding-Dealing-Manipulative/dp/1935166301
There are lots of boundaries books on the market.
Read the book Boundaries. It really helped me to start saying no to people when they would ask to borrow money, which ruins relationships many times.
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396383021&sr=8-1&keywords=boundaries
First of all, rent a P O box for 6 to 9 months at the closest US Post office & have all your mail sent to it and use it as your forwarding address. That way she can't "forget" , or just say she was concerned when she says it was "from the bank" or "from your school" and opens letters addressed to you.
Do not tell your parents that you are doing this. Also make sure all your accounts such as checking, savings and credit card are in your name only.
When she asks for information about bf, say that you do not know and suggest that she ask him directly. Be sure you let your bf know your new response just in case she actually decides to ask him.
As for wedding plans, say that he has not brought the subject up and that for now, the topic is not up for discussion. Repeat- Mom, I am not discussing that with you. Then either leave the room, change the subject, or let the silence hang in the air.
Edited to add: There is a book written in 1992 called Boundaries, by Townsend and Cloud that I think is pretty good & has some pretty good tips in it. It lightly "Christian" -
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454/ref=sr_1_1/177-5129525-2207315?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396549240&sr=1-1&keywords=boundaries+by+townsend
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0310247454/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1452714831&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70&keywords=boundaries
You need to learn how to set appropriate boundaries—you're giving, but only under compulsion. I'd say, not necessarily an asshole, but definitely not in healthy relationships. I recommend this book ("Boundaries") and possibly a therapist for you.
There are very deep roots behind your anger, and the judgment in which you hold God and others. It's not simply a question of choosing to get angry. It has roots -- and just like weeds grow back if you chop them down but don't get at the roots, this will keep returning if you don't get to the source. (Sometimes a therapist can help with this.)
So what the roots for you? I don't know you well enough to say, but here are some ideas:
Those are just a few ideas. I hope you can see a bit of a pattern, and unravel the roots. Chopping down the weeds of your behaviors (and outlook on God) will keep returning until the roots are dealt with.
Hebrews 12:15 "See to it that...no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many."
I HIGHLY recommend you consider the book "Boundaries":
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud:
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
While it has Christian overtones (which irks me as an atheist), the fundamental message is clear about setting up boundaries to limit the hurt and guilt that loved ones sometimes place upon you.
You can love someone who is hurtful without having them hurt you.
If highly recommend you check this out.
Thank you. If you haven't already, I implore you to read Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself and Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life .
Also check out intermittent Reinforcement . It's why that one day (which you are so deserving of!) will keep you around after weeks of behavior that you don't deserve. When I found out about this, I felt like I could finally explain to friends and family why it wasn't so easy to go. AND it helped me realize that I had to go.
You can’t control her, but you can enforce your boundaries.
Sounds like this could help you a lot. Hugs.
When I left at 24, I told my parents that I didn't want to discuss religion. I effectively shut down the conversation. By that point I was a fully self-supported adult and had been for several years, living on my own. No one, including my parents, have the right to come in my house and talk about things I don't want to talk about and I made that clear. There was no discussion about how I felt about the religion because there was no discussion about religion at all. I love my parents like you do, but there are boundaries in this world that everyone, including JWs have to respect. This is a secular idea, not a religious one. This book helped me to figure that out.
After several years of having a relationship outside of the religion, it became less weird and more normal, to the point where my parents felt comfortable asking again how I felt about the religion of my youth and my answer was: "I don't believe in the Bible." This is an easier answer for JWs to accept because apostasy in their mind really does actually mean actively working against the organization and particularly in the context of taking up another religion. When you simply say that the basis for their religion is the reason that you leave, they actually have no good response. The WTBTS doesn't deal with that issue very effectively (because they can't). The WTBTS spends the great majority of its energy explaining why all other religions are shit and their interpretations of the Bible wrong.
It's been 18 years now. They have accepted my decision, they chat about going to assembly and stuff like that but that's just their life, it's no big deal.
One thing I would definitely recommend is NOT going to Memorial or doing any kind of token service. Don't drag out the inevitable. Take a stand, be kind but firm. You are a human being, you are an adult. Even in the context of this fucked up religion, you have the right to stop going if you are discreet about it.
It's some serious shit, wish I could help. I can at least recommend this book, Boundaries. Read it man. You have to have boundaries in your relationships that are healthy and entirely reasonable. This sounds to me like a major issue in your family.
Boundaries - This is the book that finally put me at ease after cutting off my nmom. Her lack of respect for (and my complete lack of understanding of) boundaries is what let her keep her hold over me. Once I understood what healthy boundaries were and how much I should expect my own wishes to be respected then I was able to move forward.
There's a Christian based book called Boundaries that might help you with his family, check it out.
You're welcome! There is a great book called Boundaries that gives a great blueprint on how to know what you should help with to be a decent human being. There is a concept of a burden vs a load, that I found very helpful. The book has a Christian slant, and although I am not a particularly religious person, I still found the book very helpful and not too "churchy."
A few months ago my narcissistic mother and I got into it. It didn’t involve religion like with your mom, but basically who she is a person and how she’s affected me growing up. I felt like shit for a while. I felt really guilty. “She is my mother after all.” I held off on acting on my guilty feelings and it’s been radio silence for a few months. I feel better than ever. She was constantly adding to my stress and anxiety and it has lessened over time. I think you should take a break from each other. I highly recommend this book. It was eye opening and life changing for me. When you resume contact set firm boundaries and follow through with consequences for breaking your boundaries. Just because she’s your mother doesn’t mean she can disregard your boundaries.
Oh and this book has really
Good reviews on helping people set up and maintain healthy boundaries! Because getting there’s really hard and sometimes we need a hand https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310247454/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_SHmGDb8XXCXP9
Boundaries. Read this book. I cannot emphasize how much I feel like this book was meant for you. I think it might help you be more at peace with your own life and with your relationships with others. This book has helped me personally, also.
I think this is going to be a lifelong problem if you don't do something about it. I think you do need to confront it, but you need you husband's support as well. My suggestion for everything is to read a good book on the subject. My recommendation is Boundaries. And I would have your husband read it too. I hope you find some peace with this situation. Good luck!
Is it this book?
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1469120244&sr=8-1&keywords=boundaries
It's especially funny considering christianity is supposed to be faith based not works based. It's so easy to be ostracized for not doing enough.
I found this book to be literally life changing.
The best part now is not feeling any guilt about not evangelizing.
My apologies for commenting prior to deconversion. However, I enjoy how well your sub identifies and analyzes problems in the church.
Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life
by Henry Cloud
Helped me early on
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0310247454/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1451771828&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=boundaries+by+cloud+and+townsend&dpPl=1&dpID=41w%2Bq-o2f9L&ref=plSrch
I would echo the counseling recommendation and also suggest reading the book Boundaires by Cloud and Townsend. It is a REALLY hard thing to do - to set boundaries on your parents. Sometimes it feels infuriating that you, the child, have to be more wise and thoughtful than your parents. But it really will help in establishing a more healthy relationship. Best of luck!
Money doesn't create dysfunction. Your family was already dysfunctional. The money stuff is just another arena for the dysfunction to play out.
This is worth talking about with a therapist. Or at least take a read through this book: https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
I'm in the middle of a divorce at the moment, so many of the behaviors you mention hit close to home. What I read in your post and what I'm experiencing myself is not just that this person has failed to recognize that they have done something hurtful, it is that they continue to do it. I don't think it is time for forgiveness yet. To me, forgiveness means that I am going to shelve my hard feelings and allow us both the gift of a fresh start. But how do you offer a fresh start for every single interaction?
I'm going to recommend a book which I hope is the 'everyday' version of a marriage book my therapist recommended called Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No. A concept that really stuck with me was 'You get what you tolerate', which I took to mean that if you allow someone treat you a certain way they take that as permission to continue. My late night advice would be that more than forgiveness, what you need is to start standing up for yourself. I think being able to say, "If you continue to speak to me this way, I'm going to go home early" will do more to heal your relationship than giving them a get out of jail free card.
I recommend this book to you. It will guide you how to establish boundaries. The more time DH spends with your mom maybe the more he will see what a shit person his own mom is. You can even use yourself as an example. Point out how you parent your own kids and how its not how MIL parented him.
I have a husband that also downplays or brushes off shit his mother does. I just mostly put distance between them and made it so we barely see her.Its the only way for him to have clarity.
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
Sounds like you have a lot going on. Remember that you cannot make other people do anything. The only thing you have control over is how you act to others and how you deal with things. Even if your family doesn't understand you and takes advantage of you, it is up to you to change things. Being upset or angry will not help at all, it will only make the relationship worse. And I'm sure that you want to eventually have a good relationship with your family! This is a great book to read if you haven't read it. I'm still in the middle of it, but it has helped me learn that setting boundaries or saying no is not necessarily mean or letting people down, but can actually a positive thing if done for the correct reasons.
I would really, really recommend the book Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. It's from a Christian perspective and addresses many situations that you actually describe in your post.
I worked through this book and the accompanying workbook. It is written from a Christian standpoint so it may not be something of interest. It helped me see where and why I lacked boundaries as well as how to establish them. I had read the book before but doing the workbook along side of it was HARD and what actually helped me make a change. Then you just have to keep believing that the work you are doing for yourself is important. That you are important. That their hurt feelings and dislike of your boundaries is exactly WHY you need to put them in place.
It does get easier as time goes on bc you’ve seen the benefit of establishing and maintaining them!
Regardless of how this gets resolved, you've got a good opportunity here:
Now that you're married (congrats) you need to focus on yourselves more so than ever... may I suggest a book "Boundaries" http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454 that you both read and discuss as to know how and when to help those around you
You and your wife should read a book called Boundaries. It's required reading for everybody imo, but especially newly married couples who are struggling with over-involved/intrusive parents. What your FIL is asking for is completely and utterly out of bounds, and you would be taking on enormous personal/familial risk and stress if you agreed.
https://www.amazon.ca/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
/u/tepidsoup you need this boundaries book: https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
Kick her ass out. It's your house, and you have every right to say who can and cannot stay in your home. Additionally, I feel like you need to set clear boundaries with your sister, for some reason she feels like she has the power to tell you what to do in your house. I recommend this book, it deals with boundaries around family relationships: https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454, best of luck friend.
I'm going to go a little against the grain here and suggest that you do actually involve your parents in this decision to move out. The caveat, however, is that you do not let them make decisions for you or try to convince them that you're ready to move out. Are you or your parents christians OP? If so, you and your parents absolutely, 100% need to read Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud. If not, the book has a lot of bible quotes and speaking about what god and jesus say about your relationship with others, but it's still a good resource for what you're about to do if you can struggle through that.
Next, you're going to make a plan and a budget. I'm going to lay something out here that assumes you are 100% reliant on your parents for everything at the moment, you'll need to adjust it to your situation.
Once you've got all of this written down, with a budget showing your expenses and income and how you're going to pay for things and you've found the apartment you want and everything, sit down with them and have a talk. This isn't a talk where you ask permission, this isn't a talk where you listen to their complaints or excuses, this is a talk where you tell them what you've planned and what you're going to do.
If they try to interrupt, which they will, tell them that you'll listen to their suggestions, not complaints, at the end; and do listen to them if they aren't just complaining and making excuses, because they're older than you and they had to leave home at some point and they have experience in the matter. Now you've asserted that you are capable of making your own decisions, and you need to stand by that, with luck, your parent's will see that you are ready to move out and you can get on with your day. If not, then you're just going to have to accept that your boundaries upset them, and that's okay because you've never set boundaries with them before, and these are the growing pains.
My therapist recommended this Boundaries book (can get it on amazon pretty cheap) and it has been a really good read. They have expansions such as Boundaries in marriage, family and kids. I needed this after I was discarded and still would let my nex and his flying monkeys push my boundaries. boundaries book
Granted it was written from a Christian/spiritual perspective, this book was very helpful to me and has great insights into how having boundaries in your life can protect/build your emotional wellness.
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1498238099&sr=8-1&keywords=boundaries
I still think that any person, regardless of their belief system, will be able to glean useful principles from what is written in it.
My thoughts and experiences
I discovered that I used to be overly compliant for fear of controlling unpleasant emotions in other people's lives (whether or not the emotion is directed at me or not). Although it appears charitable, being overly compliant is just as much a form of controlling people's emotions for things that they should be responsible for. A part of stopping the over-compliance is by being okay with seeing people suffer the consequences of their actions even though you are ideally able to alleviate their pain.
While having loose boundaries makes you effective at putting out short-term fires in other people's lives, what happens is that your emotional well-being smolders from being exposed to so many fires and you begin to get emotional "burns" over time. It is certain useful in the short-term, but damaging and unsustainable for an individual in the long-term.
As far as I know, this kind of behavior is difficult to troubleshoot for an INFP because their compliance is a natural emergent from the wonderful care an INFP can have for other human beings. It's basically learning to learn to turn off a part of you by realizing that standing up for yourself does not always spell the end of relationships, and it is necessary in the care of self. In fact, it works as a great filtering mechanism for keeping unwanted people out of your life because healthy people will still stick around and respect your differences and the manipulative people will leave when they realize they can't control you.
I think one of the most useful ways for an INFP to look at the conflicts that emerge from setting boundaries and limits on others is that conflict can be used as an opportunity for self-expression. It shows where one person ends and you begin, and an INFP should generally be excited for any opportunity for self-expression (lol!).
The personalityhacker podcast has recently had some interesting information on setting boundaries, an I'm sure most of the information I've shared has been from my experiences of considering the advice I've heard on that podcast and the book I linked before. I still have a lot more work to do, too.
This is the podcast:
http://www.personalityhacker.com/podcast-episode-0177-setting-healthy-boundaries-with-merja-sumiloff/
You seem to be an ENTJ who is doing a good job at being yourself—you understand the end-result of a behavior and that is a good enough reason for you to establish boundaries without a care otherwise. Your INFP friend, however, needs to have the reason for a change in their behavior build from the bottom-up, from an authentic place. It's not as effective of a process at yours is, but it'll bring a lot of health into other areas of their lives in processing it in the way an INFP needs to. So thank you for looking out for your friend and seeking out help on their behalf.
Hey the comments in this thread are really good, if I could make a suggestion a really good book you may want to read is When I Say No I Feel Guilty it gives a lot of tools to assert yourself. Another great book is Boundaries by Cloud Townsend, it uses a lot of Bible references, which may or may not be helpful to you, but nevertheless the content is really good.
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458092696&sr=8-1&keywords=boundaries
I like this one a lot- use it regularly. It is written from a Christian perspective; however, I think it's worth the read even if one doesn't identify with that faith.
I highly recommend the book Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
Read the book “Boundaries.”
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454/ref=nodl_
I've been where you are. I feel your pain. My counselor recommended this book to me and it sounds like you could use it too:
Boundaries by Henry Cloud
I had to go onto anxiety drugs because of my family. My PCM at the time recommend a book Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life It helped to get me started in setting bounderies and eventually, I didn't need the medication any more.
I will warn, I haven't read the book in a while, but it does have some religious undertones in it.
http://www.amazon.com/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025
and
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
You're an adult. There's no reason your parents need to "take a peek" now and then. Establish boundaries and live an independent life! This is a really good book in how to do that. Reddit is here to help with moral support if you ever need it.
Like someone said, you are incredibly self aware and mature in many ways it seems.
I'm 32 and people my age and older are not as self aware as you are... they are the most difficult people to try to assist and also I think it will be a much tougher road to self-improvement for them. The road will be tougher because they can't even read their own minds, spirits, bodies... they can't read the signs that are coming from.. themselves... they're at a great disadvantage.
Feel confident that you care and have goals.
Feel confident that you are MANY steps ahead of others and are going places.
Keep getting your hands on self help books/podcasts in certain topics of your choice and continue on the road to self improvement.
Find people/friends/mentors in your life who appreciate YOU for YOU. Who are better than you, too, so you can grow. We literally become like the people we surround ourselves, in time. The pathways in our brain form similar paths to the people we are with. Find people who make you want to be better and who want to see you achieve.
I stopped caring about what people thought when I realized that I'm a bit more put together than many.
I stopped caring when I realized that I try my best and there is nothing more than that, that I can really do.
Learning about "Boundaries" has really helped me.
I can only control MY actions, I can't control other people's actions...
Example:If someone says something to me that rubs me wrong, the best way to manage that moment is to let it go/forgive them/carry it no-longer with me. Because, why would I? I was doing my best in the moment and that's all I can do. When I make a mistake, I can say I'm sorry, learn from it, and do better next time.
I hope this helps!
Ha, do your thing man. I'm only a few years older, so I've not got the wisdom of the ages, but I can share a bit from our experience. I'm sorry he's been behaving as a jerk. My wife's folks have ranged from mildly supportive of our marriage at times, to generally negative mostly, to downright subversive at others. It sucks, but after 6 years I think we're sloooowly winning them over.
Told my wife about yall, here's a few points of advice that we think would really benefit you both if you choose to move forward with marriage:
Exciting time in life to be at dude! Lots of adventure ahead!
One further thought, this one a bit dark, apologies. How attached to her family is your girlfriend? Would she be able to make a clean break from them if that's what it took for the two of you to have a healthy marriage (not saying it is necessarily at all, but it is a possibility)? We've seen a few young marriages implode when fights got ugly and one spouse or the other ran home to mom&dad instead of working it out.
So far as I can tell, u guys got a whole lot of problems. I love how you see it as "our" problem instead of just "his." You guys also seem very committed to your marriage, which yields nothing but respect from me. Therapy is definitely a great step, CBT and mindfullness training helped me and my marriage a ton. My best advice is to keep at it, and to set hard boundaries. This is a problem that you can overcome, but you have to let him know where the line is and stick to it. Him throwing temper tantrums in front of the kids seems like it should be over that line, so make it so. I know it's hard, but you guys are taking the appropriate steps to solve it. It will take time, pain, tears, and a host of uncomfortable converaations. But I promise you that you all will be the stronger once it's over. Here goes a couple of resources that helped me and my wife out through a similar situation. I also read a few PTSD books, which although he may not be diagnosed with, it is a very well established branch in psychology with great resources and tips on how to identify and control anger outrages, depression, and a breakdown in self confidence. Hope this helps!
https://www.amazon.com/Clinicians-Guide-Mind-Over-Mood/dp/0898628210
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
It looks like more of a place to vent. Im guessing therapy and doing your own research would be the "fix it" step. Ive heard good things about this book.
Just a thought... does it have to be divorce or stay in the same house with him? I think you need to make it clear to him that his behavior is unacceptable, but you might be able to do that without divorce (although, if you decide to leave him, I wouldn't blame you). I think there might be an in-between form - take your daughter and move in with your parents, but don't (necessarily) get a divorce. See how he responds: does he show any changes when you indicate how serious you are? Is he willing to go to marriage/couples counseling with you?
Also, you might want to try reading the book Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. It's on Amazon here.