Reddit reviews Church of Spies: The Pope's Secret War Against Hitler

Church of Spies

"The Vatican's stance toward Nazism is fiercely debated. History has accused wartime pontiff Pius the Twelfth of complicity in the Holocaust and dubbed him "Hitler's Pope." But a key part of the story has remained untold.

Pius ran the world's largest church, smallest state, and oldest spy service. Saintly but secretive, he skimmed from church charities to pay covert couriers, and surreptitiously tape-recorded his meetings with top Nazis. When he learned of the Holocaust, Pius played his cards close to his chest. He sent birthday cards to Hitler--while plotting to overthrow him.

Church of Spies documents this cross-and-dagger intrigue in shocking detail. Gun-toting Jesuits stole blueprints to Hitler's homes. A Catholic book publisher flew a sports plane over the Alps with secrets filched from the head of Hitler's bodyguard. The keeper of the Vatican crypt ran a spy ring that betrayed German war plans and wounded Hitler in a briefcase bombing.

The plotters made history in ways they hardly expected. They inspired European unification, forged a U.S.-Vatican alliance that spanned the Cold War, and challenged Church teachings on Jews. Yet Pius' secret war muted his public response to Nazi crimes. Fearing that overt protest would impede his covert actions, he never spoke the "fiery words" he wanted.

Told with heart-pounding suspense, based on secret transcripts and unsealed files, Church of Spies throws open the Vatican's doors to reveal some of the most astonishing events in the history of the papacy. "

I recommend the book Church of Spies: The Pope's Secret War Against Hitler.

Basically: the Pope appeared to cooperate because every time he said anything remotely critical, Hitler killed a whole bunch of people (mostly Catholics) in retaliation.

Meanwhile, he secretly had the church actively planning and coordinating quite a few assassination and coup attempts.

> The description that creeped me out was from a Catholic leader I saw on TV.

I could see how it would seem gross from a materialistic viewpoint. At the end of John 6, many of Jesus's disciples walk away from Him when He teaches it. When they question Him, He doubles down and says that one has to sink their teeth in ! There's a Greek word for that (trogain?). Not sure if you know it, but for the sake of comparison, I (and the Catholic Church) only consider Apostolic Churches to have a valid Eucharist because Holy ordination is required for consecration. No offense, but that means that outside of the Catholic Church, only the Eastern "Orthodox" have valid Eucharists. Everyone else is serving bread, so I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't experience anything supernatural outside of an Apostolic Church. The Church does recognize that baptisms and marriages are valid if done in the name of Christ. Consecrating a Eucharist requires ordination by a Holy order.

In regard to materialism, I would claim though that NOTHING makes sense from a material point of view. Do you disagree?
Objective knowledge (and justice) requires a lasting observer, so things like multiple singularities would wipe out any knowledge. Therefore, all that remains is subjectivity inside each blink of cosmic time, correct ?

> How does that differ from a vampire cult ceremony kids might perform where the attraction is likewise supernatural immortality

Lots of ways. Given the length of time for 'immortality', one would have to have perfected orderly thinking. Anything else would cause chaos (disorder). Try to stay locked in a closet for a while and you'll get a sample of what I mean. That's why I mentioned virtues earlier. Virtues are the perfected orders of a mind that are required to exist for eternity. A "vampire" have the opposite of orderly thinking. BTW, Hell is the realm of disordered thinking. It can not sustain itself. The Universe would dissolve into static.

> In a weightless vacuum an oscillating body can forever oscillate.

How could the initial state of each Universe be so perfectly ordered , such that our Universe has the laws of physics that are perfect for atoms, molecules and Life ? Do you realize how specific the laws of physics have to be for atoms to exist ? If so, how is this incredible order be maintained for eternity, or is each Universe repeating itself ?

Also, do you realize that an infinite regress is not logically possible? If you see a caboose go by, you can assume there is an engine pulling it, agreed? However long the train is, it can not be infinitely long, because we see the caboose. Our moment in time is like that caboose. We are experiencing an endpoint in time right now, therefore, there could not be an infinite number preceding it. There has to be a beginning, which Genesis happens to say. :)

> The Burning Times were a tragedy.

Yes. Do you realize that practice was leftover culture from Pagans? Christianity conquered brutal Pagan cultures and did away with many of those horrible practices. Sadly, there were times when the cultures overlapped. When Cortez got to where Mexico is, he saw the Aztecs kill over 8,000 people in one day. He was a hero to stop that, but our modern world tries to demonize him:

https://qz.com/374994/aztec-sacrifice-was-real-and-its-not-fetishistic-to-be-fascinated-by-it/

> Did the clergy who kissed Hitler's butt get what they asked for then after getting knee deep in blood regretted it?

The Church did what it had to diplomatically to survive, and it heroically saved millions of people. It was unarmed and facing Stalin, Hitler and Mussolini. Did you know how brutally Stalin persecuted Christianity in Russia ? That didn't leave the Vatican with many options. See the link below. Despite all the diplomacy Hitler brutally persecuted the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church used convents and monestaries to smuggle over 700,000 Jews out of Europe. See links below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union

About 3000 Catholic Preists were rounded up into Dachau:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_Barracks_of_Dachau_Concentration_Camp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Jews_by_Catholics_during_the_Holocaust

I recommend this book for details about the heroic stuff that the Vatican did: https://www.amazon.com/Church-Spies-Secret-Against-Hitler/dp/0465094112

> How do you know that's not a scare tactic used for controlling people?

Well, the concept has definitely has been abused by a lot of people.

At the deepest level though, it all makes logical sense to me: 1) There is an eternal mind under everything. 2) That mind requires orderliness to survive in eternity. 3) Disorder (sin) has to be separated. That's what Hell is.

Sin is like a toxic hazard to such an ordered mind, because we are made to be connected to everyone else's mind. We are really not separate things. We are the way that God chose to know Himself. If you read the Old Testament, the orderliness explains why the Jews had to do so many rituals to purify themselves. If you are a parent who has raised children, you might recognize the pattern from the Old Testament to the New: "Just obey me now. After you grow up, we can be friends and you'll understand then." The story of the Bible is God lifting people out of brutal paganism into virtuous thinking, step by step to get us ready for Heaven.

Adolf was an Anti-theist who believed Religions were a problem as it interfered with the State. He went after Jewish and other religious minority groups. While he might have said he was "Catholic" in reality he hated Christianity thinking it as weak. He persecuted Christians and even went after Christian institutions. The local church undermined Hitler rescuing thousands of persecuted people. The Pope even had a "secret war" against Hitler.

https://www.amazon.com/Church-Spies-Secret-Against-Hitler/dp/0465094112

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Here are some other things he did:

https://www.businessinsider.com/4-of-the-weirdest-things-the-nazis-ever-did-2015-7

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" Once Hitler had figuratively substituted God for himself, he decided to take it a step further.

And since literally pulling Christ from the sky wasn't an option, he decided to take out the next best thing: the Pope. Did we mention this was part of a larger plan to abolish all religions and declare himself as God of Germany? Because that was also a thing. "

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It isn't a surprise. Throughout History Dictators have went after religion. USSR, North Korea, Communist China, and Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.

I am a Catholic who DOES know what the Catholic Church is. It is a divine institution with flawed humans in it.

Just as there was a Judas walking alongside Jesus, there are screwups and saboteurs in the Catholic Church (it is widely known -- and was just acknowledged again in the Podesta emails -- that the Church was infiltrated with saboteurs for the better part of the 20th C.)

That does not make the entire institution corrupt as you are falsely claiming.

You have obviously read Hitler's Pope, why not try reading the counterpart: Church of Spies https://www.amazon.com/Church-Spies-Secret-Against-Hitler/dp/0465094112/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1485222671&sr=8-2&keywords=hitlers+pope

You have obviously myopically focused on the scandal of Catholics who glossed over or turned a blind eye to abuse. Why not also read about those courageous Catholics who tried to expose it: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/outspoken-catholic-priest-andrew-greeley-who-spoke-out-against-child-abuse-dies-aged-85-209554041-237593441

The 'Odessa File' is a work of fiction. Literally. So I have nothing to say on that.

You only present 'one-side'; it is you who is ignoring the rest of the evidence.