Reddit reviews Columbine
We found 32 Reddit comments about Columbine. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
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Reddit reviews ColumbineWe found 32 Reddit comments about Columbine. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
In a rather different vein from a lot of the suggestions I'm seeing here, I want to plug Michael Herr's Dispatches as an incredible piece of Vietnam literature. There's also If I Die in a Combat Zone by Tim O'Brien.
If you're willing to consider graphic novels, check out Maus, Persepolis, and Laika.
If you're interested at all in vampires and folklore, I recommend Food for the Dead. Really interesting read.
A history-teacher friend of mine recently gave me The Lost City of Z by David Grann. I haven't gotten around to reading it yet, but it came highly recommended.
By the by, last year I required my students (high school seniors) to select and read a non-fiction book and gave them the following list of suggestions. Columbine was one of the really popular ones, and I had a bunch of kids (and a few teachers) recommending it to me, but, again, I haven't gotten to it yet.
It's actually somewhat of a common misconception that the Columbine shooters were bullied or part of some amorphous outcast group of students. If anything, it's probably more accurate to describe them as the actual bullies. There was a really good book that came out about it several years ago. I'll try to find a link real quick.
Edit: here's a link to the book Columbine https://www.amazon.com/dp/0446546925/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_thVwzbHR79PGY
And here's a really good writeup about it from a little while after it was released http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/20/columbine.myths/
> "Don't come to school tomorrow," could mean a thousand things.
I recently read a book about the [Columbine] (https://www.amazon.com/Columbine-Dave-Cullen/dp/0446546925) shootings and I remember something that was said by one of the shooters to one of the eventual victims ([Brooks Brown] (https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/gulaf/iama_columbine_survivor_named_brooks_brown_i_was/)), just minutes before the attack. He ran into the guy in the parking lot of the school and he said, "Brooks I like you now, get outta here. Go home." I get that 99% of all threats in high schools are probably not really threats, but I mean--one of the perpetrators in the most notorious school shooting of all time warned one of his victims to stay away from the school just minutes before he started his rampage. In my mind, that is something to always take seriously.
If you were the officer who would have to tell a parent that their kid had been killed in a school shooting that you could've prevented, what would you do?
Dave Cullen's book Columbine is a fascinating read/analysis and goes into a litte more detail on this.
Basically Harris was the psychopath/leader and Klebold was the manic depressive/follower, not that that excuses his actions.
It takes guts to speak up as she has. Harris' parents have never spoken publicly about Columbine.
http://www.amazon.com/Columbine-Dave-Cullen/dp/0446546925
It's worth it imo. Very well written with absolutely zero commentary. Just lays out the facts, and does a bit of profiling of Eric and Dylan going back to their childhood, which I find fascinating.
Gross. Real talk tho this book on Columbine was great
No, that was a myth, there was another group that was called that. Also they weren't bullied. Eric Harris was a psychopath and most of his anger was because he got arrested for stealing extension cords out of a truck. Dylan Kliebold was severely depressed and a bit of a follower. On the basement tapes you can see him looking to Eric for approval after everything he does.
There is a really interesting book on it called Columbine. Almost all the media reporting was wrong. They actually could have killed a ton more people, but Eric got bored as psychopaths apparently usually do.
http://www.amazon.com/Columbine-Dave-Cullen/dp/0446546925/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375472752&sr=8-1&keywords=columbine
Speaking of books, this book is also a fantastic read written by an investigative reporter who meticulously studied the shooting and the two boys responsible. One of the best books I've ever read, it gives a very deep and well-researched look into the lives and motivations of Eric and Dylan and how the media twisted the story and created many of the well-known myths about the shooting.
Yes, they had a circle of friends. Like a lot of people, they weren't the popular "cool kids" but they weren't loners either. Most of those claims came from a bad information perpetuated by the media.
https://www.amazon.com/Columbine-Dave-Cullen/dp/0446546925/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=columbine+dave+cullen&qid=1573884018&sr=8-1
https://www.amazon.com/Mothers-Reckoning-Living-Aftermath-Tragedy-ebook/dp/B01208WN3G/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=columbine+sue+klebold&qid=1573884050&sr=8-1
90% of the media on Columbine was bad. Any article still talking about the Trenchcoat Mafia is garbage.
This appears to be the pretty definitive account of what happened, and is the basis for my claim.
I think they mean Columbine by Dave Cullen. it's pretty definitive if anyone's interested in learning more about what happened
It isn't, and OP has his information wrong.
The Columbine shooters made and used pipe bombs in their attack, there's even the famous video of the one going off in the cafeteria. They were not very effectual though. I don't know if anyone was even really injured by them. Pipe bombs and pressure cooker bombs aren't incredibly difficult to make, but they're also not that easy to use for mass casualties (see Boston Bombing for evidence of that). A gun is far more effective.
What did fail was a much larger propane tank bomb that they built and placed at the base of a support column in the cafeteria. They wanted to bring the entire cafeteria roof down on everyone. But that proved to be beyond their ability, and it didn't go off.
They also set another bomb off across town, which they hoped would draw police away from the school. I don't remember exactly, but I believe that was another propane bomb that didn't really work correctly and just caused a small brush fire or something.
I highly suggest the book Columbine by Dave Cullen. It's an amazingly researched look into all the minutia of what actually happened, and its effects. He spent over 10 years working on it and it shows. There was so much about it that I had wrong in my head. Great read if you're interested in this topic.
If you want to find out more I suggest you read this book. It's very well written, delves deep into the facts and myths, and more importantly answers the why. Highly recommend it. Spoiler: it had nothing to do with bullying, being outcasts etc.
That is the fundamental disagreement. I don't think we have a "gun problem". We have problems with people.
If we snap our fingers and all the guns disappear, we still have crazy people, we still have violent people, we still have terrorism. Europe is up to their eyeballs in truck attacks, grenade attacks and stabbings. Even in the gun-free paradise of the UK. Australia is currently dealing with gang shootings in a country where handguns are essentially banned.
We have issues with:
The most difficult problem is the last one. We are in a society where huge numbers of people take medications to deal with depression, anxiety and various personality disorders. If we go tell those people they are too dangerous to own guns, they're going to get upset. You can go all the way back to the clocktower sniper to see links between medications and violence.
I would encourage you to read Columbine if you have a legitimate interest in understanding some components of this. You can take a tldr away that those shooters bought guns that were compliant with the assault weapons ban of the day. They were using rifles that had 10rd magazines and sawed off shotguns.
edit: To answer your question directly, I don't think there is political will to handle any of the major causes of these problems and that nothing will be done. The next shooter already has his guns. The shooter after that probably does too. It's 100% going to happen again. Until we as a society are ready to tackle the really ugly problems under the surface instead of just posting hashtags about turning rifles into manhole covers, it's not going to stop. Arming teachers and what not can only help to a degree.
Here ya go
http://www.amazon.com/Columbine-Dave-Cullen/dp/0446546925
He talked about how Eric Harris was a textbook psychopath and Dylan Klebold was a angry depressive. That Eric wasn't a loner but actually popular because he was a sociopath. Dylan had come under Eric's "spell" and they weren't bullied but rather bullies themselves. Some myths about how Eric and Dylan targeted Christians which were not true they killed at random. He also talked about how the plan went astray. He really didn't talk about video games other than the Doom levels which he said no of them resembled Columbine High School.
If you want to know more about the Columbine Shooting
http://www.amazon.com/Columbine-Dave-Cullen/dp/0446546925/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372520918&sr=8-1&keywords=Columbine
This article is a crappy summary of the amazing book by Dave Cullen: http://www.amazon.com/Columbine-Dave-Cullen/dp/0446546925/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376335876&sr=8-1&keywords=columbine
If you're interested, I highly recommend it. However, as a parent (also as a human) there were parts of it that were extremely difficult to read.
Also somewhat relevant if you want to understand what happens in communities after tragedy, including the spreading of rumors and the invention of fake eye-witness testimony (anyone ever heard the falsified Cassie story about the girl who claimed she believed in God before being shot?):
Columbine by Dave Cullen
We're so far apart I don't think this discussion is going to go anywhere, however I would genuinely recommend you read Cullen's book as you clearly have an interest in the topic and it is the definitive factual account of the events. As a reporter for the Rocky Mountain News at the time he was one of the first on the scene and continued his research for a decade afterwards, getting better access to police records, families, etc etc.
http://www.amazon.com/Columbine-Dave-Cullen/dp/0446546925/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406392763&sr=8-1&keywords=columbine+by+dave+cullen
"The Hegemony Consul sat on the balcony of his ebony spaceship and played Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C-sharp Minor on an ancient but well-maintained Steinway while great, green, saurian things surged and bellowed in the swamps below." - Hyperion, Dan Simmons
"Joe Gould is a blithe and emaciated little man who has been a notable in the cafeterias, diners, barrooms, and dumps of Greenwhich Village for a quarter of a century" - Up In The Old Hotel - Joseph Mitchell
"He told them he loved them" - Columbine - Dave Cullen
"Kazbek Misikov stared at the bomb hanging above his family. It was a simple device, a plastic bucket packed with explosive paste, nails, and small metal balls. It weighed perhaps eight pounds. The existence of this bomb had become a central focus of his life." - The School - C.J. Chivers
"It was summer; it was winter." The Long Fall of One-Eleven Heavy - MICHAEL PATERNITI
"The human head is of the same approximate size and weight as a roaster chicken. I have never before had occasion to make the comparison, for never before today have I seen a head in a roasting pan" Stiff: The Curious Lives of Cadavers - Mary Roach
Here’s some great books I’m reading/have read recently that I recommend:
The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure
Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst
Columbine
On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century
And here’s my favorite book about writing ever:
Invisible Ink: A Practical Guide to Building Stories That Resonate
It's a real irony, it is. However, it could be said that Klebold was not necessarily as "excited" about the idea of massacring his classmates as the other shooter. If you're interested in the Columbine shooting, Dave Cullen's book "Columbine" is perhaps one of the best narratives describing the event's leading up to, during, and after the day of the massacre. (Link below for reference)
https://www.amazon.com/Columbine-Dave-Cullen/dp/0446546925/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1495117277&sr=8-1&keywords=columbine+by+dave+cullen
SOURCE: primary focus of undergrad education was school shootings, various papers/thesis on the topic
Since the Parkland shooting, I’ve read quite a bit about school shootings in general. I’m more of a book reader than an article reader; notes below.
Article Library
If you want a good general overview, I’d recommend reading Why Kids Kill linked below first. I’m far from an academic—never even attended a traditional college—but it’s really readable. Even if you don’t want to read the whole thing, you can pick up the ebook and just check out the references/footnotes. They link to tons of articles.
Once I finish School Shooters (also linked below) I plan to start working on this library of resources for more detailed info. That’s Langman’s site.
General Books
___
I’ve also read these books which cover specific incidents. (I read a lot of true crime in general, so this list goes back years, not just since Parkland.)
Specific Incidents
If anyone is looking for a very interesting read I would recommend Columbine by Dave Cullen. It dispels a lot of the rumors created by the news media in the early days after the shooting and has some really interesting insights on Klebold and Harris. I think I read it over a weekend.
> ...and say there's no bullying going on at Columbine which is complete nonsense
Sure, there's always bullying. Everyone's been bullied at some point or another. And i haven't personally visited the area, so i can't speak to the local culture.
What i meant to say was that the two guys, at the time of the shooting, were not particularly bullied people.
>I've heard this and always found it strange, it's actually debated to this day. There have been a number of coverups with local LEO's and school staff. It's almost like the school, and local LEO's want to push the problem on mental health
I base most of my stance on the event from the usual menagerie of easily-available sources, but also this book which is, as far as i can tell, the most complete picture of the duo. The author spent a great deal of time interviewing practically everyone in town, and who had any influence on the two shooters. There have only been small bits and pieces of the basement tapes released, with a similar situation for their diaries, so i don't feel comfortable taking those for what they appear, because of how cherry-picked they are.
I feel like i just wrote a pitch for the book, haha. But anyway, that's where i'm coming from.
If you're interested in the facts (as a parent, I have become maybe a little too obsessed with the info about past school shootings), "Columbine" by Dave Cullen is a fantastic read (and an at-least-decent audiobook). It's even been updated since initial publication to revise certain facts that came out more recently.
He's also got a website full of notes and other resources.
Columbine shooters were actually bullies, the whole "They were bullies" storyline was media driven BS.
Read Columbine By Dave Cullen.
In the book Columbine By Dave Cullens, he does a lot of work to deconstruct this myth. Basically in initial hours after the shooting a lot of the myths that we still believe about the shooting took hold. One of which was the bullying thing. (The others being the Trenchcoat mafia thing and the rumors of homosexuality)
A lot of people testified later (And I only mean a few days later, not moths or years) that, in fact, the two shooters were the ones who did a lot of bullying, esp. Harris. He pretty viciously stalked a former friend of theirs for months, harassing him at his house and school.
Here is a good blog post from a psychologist on Eric Harris mostly, but a bit about Klebold.
Here is another write up on Columbine myths.
I'm not trying to say that they were not ever bullied in school, but it is worth noting that it wasn't just a clear cut case of the bullying being one way.
Okay, but now your mixing up religion with all sorts of other really important variables in terms of global relations. Yes, there's an intersection between Islam and the Middle Eastern quagmire, but it's not because Islam. Intersection is not cause.
You make it sound like Orlando and 9/11 are the same thing, or had the same MO, or really had anything significant in common. Let's be real, the Boston Bombing was more functionally similar to Columbine than Paris. (Source) Things get confused and action becomes ineffective when you say an apple is an orange. Nuance matters.
More to the point - and exactly as Obama said - you cede to the monsters abusing faith for narrative that they're right in saying they dictate the meaning of Islam. Why corroborate their bull?
Have you read the book "Columbine," by Dave Cullen? If so, what did you think of it?
there's no easy answer to that. however, the common consensus is that harris was a psychopath (in the clinical sense) who was indeed extremely angry at the world, but not for the reason of bullying, and that klebold was an alcoholic depressive who was looking for a way out. it's been a while since i've read about all this, so anybody correct me if i'm wrong, but from what i can recall, harris kept journals which detailed his hatred of the world as stemming from how superior he felt to the people around him, and how because of this, he was entitled to treat them however he wanted, which is pretty typical psychopath stuff. klebolds journals were much more melancholic, whereas harris talked a lot of hate, klebold spoke of love, and his inability to find it.
i've forgotten basically everything else, but if you're interested in this, i'd recommend reading Columbine by Dave Cullen.
This should do the trick.