Reddit reviews Confederates in the Attic: Dispatches from the Unfinished Civil War

I did miss your modern. I am not sure what you mean by "modern Confederate." I highly recommend Confederates in the Attic for a nuanced picture of a variety of modern folks, neo and otherwise, interested in Confederates.

https://www.amazon.com/Confederates-Attic-Dispatches-Unfinished-Civil/dp/067975833X

"I would save the Union. … If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it" - Abraham Lincoln

Fun fact - Civil War re-enactors will soak their buttons in urine to get them to look authentic. Yes, they consider this to be a good use of their time.

Source: This book, which is chocked full of BTMR goodness.

> Fuck you. I bet you'd love a 2nd American civil war.

Why would I? My side won.

> Erasing our history is not okay.

It isn't erasing history. Have you ever actually visited a civil war memorial or battlefield? Because there are many of them around with statues. For example, here is some information on Lee's statue at Gettysburg.

Statues belong in the places where these men toiled: on the battlefield.

> Just because their side lost doesn't make the men who fought on that side any less important, or any more "evil" or something.

I don't think that is the case, but glorifyng a nation that lost against the USA only emboldens neo-Confederates, historical revisionism, or those who would want to contunue the "Lost Cause." Ever read Confederates in the Attic? It's a very good read that touches upon these issues, which are still problematic today as we saw from Charlottesville, VA.

BTW, I grew up south of the Mason-Dixon line, my father is from the South, and we had ancestors that fought on both sides during the war, so I am not just some Damn Yankee trying to oppress Southerners. I love the South in many ways -- its food, music, and climate, for example -- but that doesn't mean I support racialist people waving the Confederate flag.

> Every person involved in the civil war was an American.

That is true, but Southerners attacked the US and seceded from it because they had a different vision of America while the rest of the country (except the territories) was free soil. It's a key issue.

"Confederates in the Attic is a cracking good read. If you like documentaries, Ken Burns "Civil War" is the gold standard.

recommended reading: http://www.amazon.com/Confederates-Attic-Dispatches-Unfinished-Civil/dp/067975833X

I would recommend that you check out [Confederates in the Attic: Dispatches from the Unfinished Civil War] (http://www.amazon.com/Confederates-Attic-Dispatches-Unfinished-Civil/dp/067975833X). Tony Horwitz Goes across the South in the early and mid-1990s and explorers why the war, according to some people, still hasn't ended.

It is a fascinating read, particularly the parts about attending reenactments with a hardcore Confederate group. I remember one of the lines being something like "Bill, you're peeing on your buttons again" in reference to a soldier who was committed to the authentic look of his jacket buttons.

Edit: I would love to see a follow-up to that book more than a decade later. Given recent demographic shifts in the South, I wonder what has changed.

Cracks knuckles. I, as what Tony Horwitz calls, "A Civil War Bore" (But also one for the American War of Independence) can give you some recommendations. You gotta read Gen. Grant's memoirs. Out of all the memoirs by the major players, Grant is the most readable of them all, it is so well written. Ken Burns' famous Documentary introduced me to the memoirs of two common soldiers. "Company Aytch" follows Sam Watkins as he fights in the Western Theater, from Shiloh to Nashville, and "All for the Union" by Elisha Hunt Rhodes follows one Federal soldier as he survives the entire war in the East, from 1st Bull Run to Appomattox. For a general history, "Battle Cry of Freedom" by James McPherson is the absolute best. For more detailed studies on the lives of the individual soldiers, the two classic works "The Life of Johnny Reb" and "The Life of Johnny Yank" are fantastic. Similar works and more modern works include "Fighting Means Killing", a detailed study on Civil War combat, and "The War for the Common Soldier", basically a general summary of the life of the common lad during the war. Now, if you want legacy, there is but one place to go: Tony Horwitz's legendary 1998 Magnum Opus "Confederates in the Attic." Over the course of two years, Tony takes you all across the American South, running into everything as varied as the KKK one county over from where I live in Kentucky (Yeah, I apologize on behalf of South-Central Kentucky in advance, but at least they're in Todd County and not Logan!!!), a Scarlet O' Harra impersonator in Atlanta, and a massive Civil War road trip in Virginia with a reactor buddy. Well written, Mr. Horwitz can make you feel whatever he wants. Tony is was of the best writers out there, and it is a shame we lost him in May. May he rest in peace.

Edit: Amazon Links

The Complete Personal Memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant

Company Aytch

All For the Union

Battle Cry of Freedom

The Life of Johnny Reb

The Life of Billy Yank

Fighting Means Killing

The War for the Common Soldier

Confederates in the Attic (If you buy no other book from this list, buy Confederates in the Attic)

The world knew the war was about slavery the day the first shts were fired on Fort Sumter. I do, though, accept that a group of people who are very misguided, believe that the south seceded and fought for states rights. This contortion of history is the source of a lot of racial strife in our country, not to mention real violence.

Yes, acknowledge that some people are just wrong about the Civil War. But to treat their point of view as equally valid of consideration is wrong.

https://www.amazon.com/Confederates-Attic-Dispatches-Unfinished-Civil/dp/067975833X

This is a great book to read on the topic.

If it makes any difference, I've already backed your game.

Tony Horowitz discusses this in his book [Confederates in the Attic] (http://www.amazon.com/Confederates-Attic-Dispatches-Unfinished-Civil/dp/067975833X) a great read

Farbies Great book discussing that same problem.

lol, I don't think the author ever went to Wisconsin. He focused on the States that fought in the War Between the States -- as the people interviewed in his book would call the Civil War ... They disagreed that it was inherently a symbol of slavery and racism -- that seems a distinctly Northern way of viewing it. Rather, they see it as a symbol of states rights and state sovereignty: The states had the right to secede; they lost the war and Lincoln tyrannically changed the balance of power declaring states did not have the right to leave the union. That's their understanding. They also see the flag as a means to honor their dead relatives who are otherwise being wrongly denigrated as racist: During the war, people fought out of loyalty to their state in addition to other reasons. Families even fought against each other for this reason, if they lived on opposite sides of a state border, which boggles my mind.

lol, you've made work for me, because now I have to dig through my files to find the book ... I will say that I would never have read it if it weren't for university, but it wasn't a bad read -- it was vaguely interesting.

Oh, and lest I depict the journalist as if he were a racist apologist: He did describe some flagrantly racist and offensive people he encountered, which appalled him, so yeah, there's racism behind it sometimes too, as headline news today obviously demonstrates ...

Edit: Wow! I searched Amazon.com and it was one of the top results! You can even buy a copy for pennies, plus shipping...

I think you are mistaken. It does a very representative of Southern Pride. I would go as far as to say today that it also has little to do with slavery and more of associating with an imagined community based on a southern-white culture.

A very good read that I recommend:

Confederates in the Attic(http://www.amazon.com/Confederates-Attic-Dispatches-Unfinished-Civil/dp/067975833X)

*Sorry for the long winded comment, I just feel strongly about this subject and hate when people clump these groups together as one voice.

> Plus comparing Hong Kong protesters waving the US flag, which is generally seen by people as a symbol of freedom, to people waving literal Nazi flags is fucking insane?

I’m gonna start here, because it’s not. To the Chinese, the American flag means something entirely different. We can argue about what they think it means, but its probably not entirely a good feeling. A symbol has different meaning to everyone. There isn’t a single definition for symbols. If there was, the Nazi flag wouldn’t be flown at fucking all. Simple as that. If symbols always meant the same thing these things would be simple.

> Quick question, if you're at a rally for a civil war monument and aren't a Nazi wouldn't you think "hey there are lots of Nazis here, maybe I should leave so I won't be caught up in this Nazi stuff".

Ok but how about this story, from a book called Confederates in the Attic by Tony Horwitz.

A young man named Michael Westerman was shot and killed back in the 90’s. He had the confederate flag flying on his red truck. His girlfriend said he just liked the look of it because it made his truck look sharp. Some less biased sources said he was just a trouble rouser. Others would call him a white supremacist. Whatever the case, he was a young man acting stupid.

Why was he killed? He still had the flag waving on Martin Luther Kings birthday. A group of black young men were of the same age and didn’t like this. Maybe they were provoked by the use of the N word, maybe not. Tony’s book does make it clear though that this young Michael Westernan dies and his assailant ends up in prison for quite a while. Hate crime.

White nationalist groups took it upon themselves to politicize this death and use it for recruiting purposes. They even showed up at the funeral. The takeaway I got from the story is how pushy these groups are. You may not want them there, but once they show up you can’t just get them to leave. They are too aggressive. What should the family have done in that situation?

> if I was put in a situation where something I believed in was being co-opted by literal Nazis, or literally anyone who's ideals were dangerous and harmful, I'd rethink my participation in said situation

> they were willing to surround themselves with those people to get their point across.

Now that last example was just a side point, and I want to finish with what I really was trying to say. This was the point I was making earlier. If you are willing to surround yourself with the wrong kinds of people, does this make you of the same kind?

This is going to be opinion based but I don’t think so. When the KKK shows up at your sons funeral, I don’t believe that means you support the KKK. Even if you hold some of their beliefs that doesn’t mean you agree with all of them.

Personally I believe that as with all things racism comes in degrees. Profiling is often a racist act. One time I was walking at night and I crossed the street because I saw three black men wearing clothes that seemed more gang related walking on the same side of the street as me. That was profiling on my part. It was racist and I feel that it was wrong. I remember wondering after it happened if I would have done the same thing if they were white.

The KKK on the other hand will kick you out of their group for sleeping with someone who is black. They want to bring back segregation. They believe that your race determines your quality as a person. That’s an entirely different degree of racism.

So just to reiterate my argument, symbols have different meaning to everyone, these groups are difficult to get rid of, and being in their presence doesn’t mean you entirely agree with them.

What’s this all boil down to? Being at that rally doesn’t make you the devil. It’s entirely possible that someone at that rally is there because they feel they are being oppressed. They see the flag and think “well they have the right to protest so who am I to stop them”. And believes they are an extreme group who is taking things too far.

Think this is so unrealistic? This happened at the French protests too. People showed up and burned cars. They gave the protest a bad name. And so what? Because people you don’t entirely agree with are doing bad shit you should just stop your protest altogether? Nazi and KKK groups will show up at literally anything that resembles their groups beliefs and make it their own. So if they should stop protesting then you are telling people with right leaning ideals they don’t have the right to protest.