Reddit reviews Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches: The Riddles of Culture
We found 21 Reddit comments about Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches: The Riddles of Culture. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
Vintage
There's a book called 'Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches' by Marvin Harris wherein I first heard of this phenomenon.
He was part of a long tradition of messiahs. This is explored in the fascinating book, "Cows, Pigs, Wars, & Witches: The Riddles of Culture" by the esteemed cultural anthropologist Marvin Harris in a chapter titled, "The Secret of the Prince of Peace".
Essentially, Israel was occupied by the Romans who, understandably, wouldn't let the Jews keep a standing army. This lead to the military-messianism which was essentially a charismatic leader who lead a group of men against the Roman army.
This is why it's said that people were confused when Jesus died because they thought fulfilling the prophecies of the Old Testament (which hadn't been codified as such yet) which most read to mean that he was going to kick the Romans out.
Enter Bar Kochba a messiah who actually DID kick the Romans out and partied like it was 1999 for 3 years until the Romans came back, kicked ass, enslaved tens of thousands, and generally made Israel regret the day they first heard of Bar Kochba. Which is why you generally don't hear about him still.
As for whether Jesus was a Prince of Peace (like modern white people wanna think) or a warrior-messiah (like he actually was), consider Matthew 10:34-38 where he's sounding totally gangsta.
>"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
>
>' a man against his father,
>a daughter against her mother,
>a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
>a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'
>
>"Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it."
Because one was the state making laws, the other was a religion. If a state makes laws, they're enforced through the use of force. A religion makes laws, and they're mainly done through this: ಠ_ಠ As a society, if you make something against the law there are a certain number of people who will break the law just to express disapproval of the political clique running things, whether it's a monarchy or a democracy, and in short order forbidden items become widespread in society.
Seriously, I'd look up a book called Cows, Pigs, Wars and Witches: The rational bases of culture, wherin the anthropologist author breaks down a lot of the 'irrational' elements of cultures (e.g. cows in india, pigs in the middle east, and so on) and shows that they're actually quite well-adapted customs for those areas. And the ban on pigs, for instance holds when it's a religious commandment, not so much when a political authority issues the ban.
http://www.amazon.com/Cows-Pigs-Wars-Witches-Riddles/dp/0679724680
The book "Cows, Pigs, War and Witches" gave these possible reasons:
I'm not sure if these necessarily meet the standard for this sub, but two layman-friendly and highly interesting books you might like are Lies My Teacher Told Me and Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches.
As an aside, most scholars seem to think that Josephus was not a fake, but his mentions of Christ are so brief that it's hard to argue, from the standpoint of Josephus, that Christ was seen as anything special in his time. Instead, this is used as proof by many that Christ actually existed.
That's where it gets interesting: Christ's existence (assuming you agree that he did) has nothing to do with his alleged divinity. In fact, I'd recommend reading Cows, Pigs, Wars and Witches. In this book, the anthropologist Marvin Harris actually argues that Christ was very militant, even violent, but that later followers had to "tone him down" lest they bring down the wrath of the Romans.
Great stuff.
In Cows, pigs, wars and witches Harris suggests that the "Jesus Christ" might actually have been an amalgam of several radical cult leaders that were popular at the time who were executed for inciting violence and challenging local religious authority. The important point is many do show up on the records of the time, but none are specifically named "Jesus of Nazareth"
Been a while now, but I recall the book "Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches" being pretty interesting, and a really easy read.
I used to love all those new age books! Why not head down to the used bookstore and pick up half a dozen books that look fun out of that section? There's always something entertaining there. If she's a true believer, avoid anything that suggests people can survive by eating nothing but air.
Or, if she's not a true believer but just interested in the subject, have you considered getting her some non-fiction books that delve into the psychology behind ghost sightings and such? Like Investigating the Paranormal (less skeptical) or Demon-Haunted World (much more skeptical)?
Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches was a fascinating read and IIRC largely historical. She might also enjoy branching out into a book like The Predictioneer's Game, which is about game theory and how to use it effectively in modern life.
If she likes mysteries at all, I suggest Josephine Tey's The Daughter of Time. It's about a police officer who is laid up in hospital and decides to use the time to solve a famous historical mystery. You could also consider biographies of strong and active women who inspire -- Princess Diana, maybe, or Martha Stewart?
(Edited to add links)
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Read a book by an anthropologist Marvin Harris call Cows, Pigs, Wars and Witches: The Riddle of Culture. I don't recall everything from the book, but the main thesis was that human have a set pattern of behavior. I highly recommend his books to everyone. I truly believe his books does better job of explain life and reality than, say, Jordan Peterson's book 12 Rules for Life.
Limited Resources and War:
>Tribal warfare among the inhabitants of Papua New Guinea tend to occur roughly every 20 to 30 years, and evidences strongly suggested that it revolves around the raising of pigs because pigs is the only valued commodity.
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>Starting out with two tribes coexisting peacefully. Both tribes raise pigs and have children. It takes roughly 20 years to raise a child to become a capable adult, and it takes the same amount of time and resources to raise a pig to adulthood. Within that twenty year period, the people and the pigs experience a gradual population growth, so eventually, someone will encroach on another tribe's territories. Pig or two could have been stolen or a strayed pig went and ate the other tribe's crops. A tribe member encroach into the other tribe's hunting and farming grounds. Extra inter-tribal marital affairs occurs, and of course, some accusation of witchcraft for deceases. For whatever reasons one tribe accuses the other for their misfortunes, the underlying problem is that population growth put a strain on limited resources. Eventually, the problem reaches a breaking point, and the tribes go to war. The war kill off a good numbers of young men and women, enough for each tribe to contemplate their loses. After awhile, the tribes make peace, slaughter half of their pigs in celebration. With half of the young men and women dead and half of the pigs slaughtered, the demand on the resources also reduced, and the cycle starts again.
Isn't it scary to know that despite the fact that we think we have free-will, mother-nature dictates on the grander scheme of things. People fight for various reasons, but at the end of the day, it's nothing more than mother-nature trying to balance things out.
I always liked this one
Relevant: [Cows, Pigs, Wars & Witches] (http://www.amazon.com/Cows-Pigs-Wars-Witches-Riddles/dp/0679724680).
Harris explains various taboos and traditions including the anti-pork restriction in the Bible in terms of economics. For the jews, a mostly nomadic group in an arid area, it wasn't cost effective to buy and feed pigs. It would result in a net loss of resources for the entire community if pigs were relied upon over goats and sheep. These methods for preserving the community may not have been understood by the people of the time but evolved as certain groups shrank and died out as a result of pig farming.
He uses similar logic to explain the effectiveness of the Hindu 'sacred cow' and other practices as dictated by the resources and environment of a given area instead of divine instruction.
Good read.
> I believe there's a possibility of a man named Jesus who was killed, and that's strictly speaking historically.
The consensus among secular scholars is that there was a historical Jesus. I recommend Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches if you're interested in the context of the Jesus movement. It turns out that the several references to his disciples carrying around knives were significant.
> The more and more I looked, the more I realized that organized religion was holding me back.
These were my thoughts as well. Atheism As Congruence verbalized the psychological relief brought about by my de-conversion - perhaps you will enjoy it as well.
TL; DR: Memes for Dummies
I would add one thing to your explanation of memes targeted towards beginners. A meme is like a gene, only a meme exists in a theoretical construct of all human's thought (for lack of better words, the hive mind), whereas a gene Exists in the physical world.
I would posit that "agents" lie in between memes and genes. cf. Marvin Minsky's Society of Mind and John Holland's Hidden Order: How Adaptation Builds Complexity but that's for another day. You, my friend, clearly need to take a lesson on evolutionary anthropology with Marvin Harris' Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches: The Riddles of Culture and discover the chill pill that lies within. Religions are an archaic but possibly genetically scripted way of passing the knowledge of how to form a society between generations. They are 4-dimensional memes.
As a scientist, can you ignore publications in your field? As an Atheist, can you ignore everything your Father taught you? Bedwetter? These questions are the same.
The myriad religions of this world have discovered some excellent advice for being a human living with other humans. We conscious Atheists/Realists must ensure that we do not discount the results the faithful have obtained through years of memetic evolution despite their ignorance in offering that knowledge. That is, religious people have a bunch of gems in their outdated notions which we should be aware of. Spoken by an atheist ex taoist neo-pagan.
Books I would add to balance this list out:
Anthropology
Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches by Marvin Harris. Unlike Germs, Guns, and Steel, this book is written by an actual anthropologist (sorry Mr. Diamond) and is a really easy read--it covers topics from the sacredness of cows to cargo cults. It's fun, too, as Harris is an entertaining and engaging writer, and it's a slim book.
Bonus Level Challenge Anthropology Read:
In Search of Respect: Selling Crack in El Barrio by Phillipe Bourgois. This is another monograph written by an actual anthropologist. This book is more challenging subject matter, and I should put a big Trigger Warning on it for violence against women.
Economics
Wages, Price, and Profit by Karl Marx. It's a shame more people don't read Marx beyond the Manifesto, which he wrote fairly early on in his academic life. W,P and P is a preparatory work for Capital and outlines one of the arguments Marx makes in the much denser and more complete work that was to follow. It's short, and one of Marx's more approachable writings, dealing with something we are all familiar with: how much we get paid, and why.
Bonus Level Challenge Economics Read:
Imperialism: the Highest Stage of Capitalism by V. I. Lenin. This book contains much drier material, as Lenin draws upon common economic sources (I hope you like talking about tons of iron) to illustrate phenomenon like World War 1--which he saw as a competition of imperialist powers to redivide the Middle East and Africa--and even the Iraq Invasion that would come almost 100 years later.
> a hot lady in shorts
We wouldn't be here as a group rather effectively targeted by feminists if the above was culturally unacceptable.
> while walking a most loyal doggo
Original formula Muslims were raiders, the most loyal doggos of kaffirs were very much an obstacle.
> bacon
I think I read in this book a case that pigs are overly destructive creatures in the Middle East ecosystem.
> drinking beer
They're hardly the only enemies of Demon Rum ... heh, they hold that in common with earlier feminists.
(1) Stephen Hawking might have something interesting to say about that in his lecture The Beginning of Time.
First, you have to think of space and time as a unified field: spacetime. We know this is true because we can time someone moving at Mach 5 on their craft and on the ground, and the timers are out of sync due to time dilation. And because we experience time dilation, we know that relativistic effects on spacetime have a very real impact on causation.
Second, if you consider "pre-big-bang" to be a world in which causation exists, you can't really justify that. Because we see spacetime wrapped up in a singularity at the beginning of the universe, you're talking about events "before time", which is meaningless. There are no events before time, just like there are no phone calls before telephones.
Also, on that study, we've found isolated cultures who are atheistic as well, who recognize pantheons, who believe in animism (worship of spirits inhabiting everyday objects, especially in Japan), Dreamtime stories among Australian Aboriginals, a whole host of cultures that deny monotheism. Seeking justification for the "naturalness" of monotheism is actually a pretty common Orientalist trope, especially because work contradicting monotheism as "natural" is unlikely to be received well by a largely-religious establishment.
(2) Why would you ascribe thoughts and feelings to a means of causation? An earthquake is powerful, but that doesn't mean it has rage. Sunlight is powerful, but that doesn't mean it has sorrow. It's not uncommon to try to ascribe emotions to things we observe- some people believe that every object, event, and idea has its own spirit. You could ascribe a nature to something which could just as easily be inanimate, but it would be entirely your own doing.
(3) Watching someone defend something you believe in tends to be exciting. However, be careful not to fall into the bias of choice. Sometimes, we're cheering for our own side as much as we'd like to try not to.
(4) The inclusion of facts in a text does not make the whole text credible. Newton laid out significant facts about gravitation, but declared that "God causes gravity"- he was close, it was the God particle. Is Newton wrong? Partially yes, partially no.
Similarly, the Bible and the Qur'an declare "eating pork is forbidden". Some people claim that this is because of trichinosis, but most Jews and Arabs would cook their meat thoroughly anyway (or they'd get similar parasites from kashrut/halal meat.)
The real reason that they forbid pork consumption is that pork is delicious. There is a high demand for pork among the average person without dietary restrictions. And this is good- if you can raise pigs. They're actually quite clean as long as they're kept in conditions below 80˚F. Once you go over that, they start rolling in their own filth to keep cool, and die of heatstroke in the 90˚F range. If Jews and Arabs of ancient times were to raise pigs, most of them would die (loss of money for the farmer) and the ones that didn't would give horrible, disease ridden meat from the pig spending its summers rolling in its own excrement. This law saved a lot of resources up until about 1902 with the invention of the air conditioner. See http://www.amazon.com/Cows-Pigs-Wars-Witches-Riddles/dp/0679724680
(5) "Corruption" depends entirely on your own definition of "corrupt" messages. In Jesuism, they believe that the introduction of Pauline Epistles corrupted the entire Christian religion. Zoroastrians likely view every other religion as a corruption, since their tradition dates back almost an entire millenium before Judaism.
So what's the "standard"? If it's the one most people believe, then you're kind of harkening back to a Might Makes Right hypothesis- that the conquerors and the caliphs who won the wars get to make their religion the standard. The history of nearly every religion is a military history, including Christianity.
(6) Is a lot of stuff that makes it attractive to a person having a "spiritual crisis" to turn back into the arms of organized religion.
But here's my conclusion: If the ritual works for you, why not take part in it? If the belief helps you, then believe it.
However, if you find yourself suffering because you don't want to believe- if rather than a bitter pill, you're finding yourself drinking a sweet poison, don't be afraid to hold yourself to a high standard of proof. Do what you need to do to be satisfied that your beliefs stand the test. If you're tempted to blame yourself when they don't, consider the possibility that it's the beliefs themselves that are to blame, for being unable to mesh with modern facts.
Thats very interesting. I never heard of it before, but that's bad luck for the hanged guy, doesn't it?
Btw, if you are interested in the origin of superstiction like I do, you should read "Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches" by Marvin Harris. It gives rational explanations for some religious and common superstictions. Helps to understand how a superstiction grow in the minds of a society.
Marvin Harris - Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches: The Riddles of Culture is a good place to start. You will start thinking about a lot of the everyday things you see, but in a new light.
You should read "Cows, Pigs, Wars and Witches" - really interesting book discussing different cultural phenomena and how they came to be. One of the chapters is dedicated to this exact subject.
http://www.amazon.com/Cows-Pigs-Wars-Witches-Riddles/dp/0679724680