Reddit reviews Holy Writ as Oral Lit: The Bible as Folklore

The title for this is a bit misleading; the whole Bible is a collection of written folklore. My (very sadly deceased) old professor wrote a book with tons of examples of this called Holy Writ as Oral Lit. Gilgamesh, being folklore as well, has some parallels to the Bible; think of it as the difference between humans evolving from an ancestor in common with apes as opposed to from apes.

And a nitpick with the article: Gilgamesh is actually a legend. Myths are explanations for how the world and certain things in it came to be, while legends are narratives about an occurrence. For instance, Genesis would be a myth, but Noah's Ark would be a legend. Another common misconception is that either phrase gives a qualification of veracity; neither is synonymous in a scholarly sense with "lie" or "untruth."

I can't remember specifically, but I believe the flood actually appears in several other legends of the time. Since the area was the "cradle of civilization," it's not terribly surprising the story got around to other cultures.

</annoying pedantry>

Read it, fun story. I really like the part where in Atra-Hasis it states that the flood was a river flood. Then to Gilgamesh it evolves to the Sea was flooded. Then Noah, the next in the chain, it's a Worldwide flood that covered even up to the mountains.

Genesis 7:17-20

• 7:17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
  
• 7:18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
  
• 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
  
• 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
  
  
  River flooded, to Sea flooded, to World flooded. Essentially what we have here is oral tradition from generation to generation, and each generation embellishing on the previous one to make it sound bigger and better. Sort of like the game of Telephone one plays as a kid.
  
  A really good book on these kind of situations is by Alan Dundes - Holy Writ as Oral Lit.

I got kind of lazy with the links, but anyways here is my collection of Christianity related books, links etc.

Listening:

• Thomas Sheehan - Historical Jesus (Stanford available through iTunes U)
  
• Bart D. Ehrman - Historical Jesus (University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill)
  
• Christine Hayes - Intro to OT (Yale university)
  
• (Note I'm not sure this is a legal download...) Bart D. Ehrman - From Jesus to Constantine (University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill)
  
• The Bible Geek with Robert M. Price
  
• NT Pod with Mark Goodacre (Duke Uni)
  
• From Israelite to Jew with Michael Satlow (Brown University)
  
• <http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/audio.htm>
  
  
  Books:
  
  
• Meaning of the Dead Sea Scrolls: Their Significance For Understanding the Bible, Judaism, Jesus, and Christianity
  
• When Time Shall Be No More: Prophecy Belief in Modern American Culture (Studies in Cultural History)
  
• Vision and Persuasion: Rhetorical Dimensions of Apocalyptic Discourse
  
• The life of Jesus critically examined - Old Classic
  
• David and Solomon: In Search of the Bible's Sacred Kings and the Roots of the Western Tradition
  
• The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts
  
• From Jesus to Christ: The Origins of the New Testament Images of Christ
  
• Re-Imagine the World
  
• The Apocalyptic Jesus: A Debate
  
• Who Killed Jesus?: Exposing the Roots of Anti-Semitism in the Gospel Story of the Death of Jesus
  
• The Historical Jesus: The Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant
  
• Beyond the Passion: Rethinking the Death and Life of Jesus
  
• <http://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-history-investigation-problems/dp/0687279267>
  
• <http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Delusion-Why-Faith-Fails/dp/1616141689>
  
• <http://www.amazon.com/Gospel-Fictions-Randel-Helms/dp/0879755725>
  
• <http://www.amazon.com/WHAT-GOSPEL-Rose-Charles-TALBERT/dp/086554185X>
  
• <http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Christ-Origins-Testament-Images/dp/0300084579>
  
• <http://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Acts-Unraveling-Its-Story/dp/159815012X>
  
• <http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Outside-New-Testament-Introduction/dp/0802843689#reader_0802843689>
  
• <http://www.amazon.com/Great-Angel-Study-Israels-Second/dp/0664253954>
  
• <http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Writ-Oral-Lit-Folklore/dp/0847691985>
  
• Bart D. Ehrman - Misquoting Jesus
  
• Bart D. Ehrman - Jesus, Interrupted
  
• Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible
  
• Earl Doherty - The Jesus Puzzle - A Novel About the Greatest Question of Our Time
  
• John Dominic Crossan - The Last Week - A Day-by-Day Account of Jesus's Final Week in Jerusalem
  
• Richard Carrier - Not the Impossible Faith
  
• The Oxford Bible Commentary
  
  
  Links
  
  
• Bible Map
  
• Bible.cc
  
• Red Egg
  
• Gospel Parallels
  
• Greek Biblical and Modern Pronunciation
  
• Nag Hammadi Library
  
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_Hypothesis
  
• http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/NTcanon.html
  

Holy Writ as Oral Lit: the bible as folklore if your mother believes the bible is the direct word of god this might be a good book to start her on. It's a short study of biblical contradictions with an emphasis on considering it as folklore and not holy writ. It's a super quick read and may just plant some seeds of doubt without being heavy-handed.

You haven't annoyed me at all: I enjoyed looking all that stuff up, as I haven't done it in a while :)

I don't have a booklist to hand, but I can recommend this video: The God Who Wasn't There

IIRC there is some bad logic in there, but I did look up and read a couple of the books which are mentioned in the film, which were interesting. A good one was Holy Writ as Oral Lit which shows the parallels between the stores in the Bible and folklore.

Which is precisely the point. There is no "good evidence" that the alleged Jesus of Nazerth existed at all. The entire Jesus story does, however, rather neatly fit the patterns in folklore reserved for every hero warrior god throughout every major civilisation—many of which predate middle-eastern literacy by thousands of years.

The "good evidence" Christianity continually asserts as its authority on which to speak, is—without exception—internal apologetics which presumes scriptural teaching to be authentic and correct—when in reality biblical scholars have long since given up trying to differentiate between genuine texts, such a St. Paul's letters to the Corinthians and the deliberate misinformation spread by early Christianity's main opposition—i.e., the Pagan Hoards whose traditions and rites were hijacked and commandeered by Christianity itself.

http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Writ-Oral-Lit-Folklore/dp/0847691985

If the rising from the dead of a composite character from folklore is the tenuous link between Yahweh's existence and everything attributed to him being true or false, you can at least see why so many of us choose to come down on the side of science and rationalism?