Reddit reviews Instant Zen: Waking Up in the Present

Instant Zen.

Hmm yes, the comparison you made is between a collection of discourses from Master Huangbo and a collection of Koans and stories. I can recommend really any more discourse oriented Chan teachings ranging from Master Foyan's "Instant Zen" to the recorded sayings of Master Linji. The Recorded sayings of Master Linji also include some interactions and stories, but also some clear discourses from the Master... the same with the Recorded sayings of Master Zhaozhou, which is mostly interactions and some discourses. Another one that you might find interesting is "Ch’an Master Hui Hai- Zen Teaching of Instantaneous Awakening" or The Letters of Chan Master Dahui Pujue.... but really, reading those discourses and not doing the practice won't be very helpful... hence the 'clear discourses' are rather rare since you should penetrate it yourself directly and not have it chewed out by those old grandmothers

Those aren't books of instruction, ewk. They are popular collections of certain people's enlightenment encounters.

Is Red Pine's translation of Bodhidharma not a direct teaching? Are letters of practice instructions from Foyan, Yuanwu, and Hongzhi not direct teachings? I suppose that Takuan Soho's instructions to Munenori on maintaining no-mind in daily life doesn't count either?

Why is it better for novices to dive deep into stories about Gutei's finger or think about whether the flag moves or not than it is to read directly from Huangpo? Isn't that like asking a baby to chew a piece of meat?

Dogen is difficult. Try:

• Instant Zen
  
• The Zen Teachings of Huang Po
  
  
  

> This is actually a thing I've been contemplating since I was a young boy

Your post reminded me of a story from Foyan about someone who lost his body and became enlightened.

From the same book, and as a comment to the story described above, I've been contemplating this:

"Your body is not there, yet not nothing. Its presence is the presence of the body in the mind; so it has never been there. Its nothingness is the absence of the body in the mind; so it has never been nothing.
Do you understand? If you go on to talk of mind, it too is neither something nor nothing; ultimately it is not you."

Foyan calls this the "marrow of Zen".

> Get out the hacksaw and let us have a look.

Hah. No thanks. For now, I prefer to live vicariously through you. :-)

http://www.amazon.com/Instant-Zen-Waking-Up-Present/dp/1556431937/

Foyan! Awesome book!

Instant Zen by Foyan and translated by Thomas Cleary is really good. The introduction by the translator is a bit wonky but the body of the book is great.

If you're more Shikantanza inclined Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind and Not Always So are pretty good. They're both collections of dharma talks by Shunryu Suzuki.

I personally have a great affection for the book Zen Question it has beautiful illustrations and is in a very simple Q & A format.

> I don't think the zen characters expressed any metaphysical views, or conceptual explanations in their teachings. Logic, yes, to expose hypocrisy but not to try to support or clarify Mazu’s position.
> Mazu points. What is pointed at (the moon) is inherently a mystery. Zen is experienced non verbally, non conceptually.
> Zongmi is building conceptual models, truths, a philosophical and metaphysical synthesis, verbal descriptions of reality. This is not what Mazu, Dongshan, or their followers were doing.

So Zongmi was really more of an academic himself, than a zen student.
Academia is not about emulating zen masters (or even students), but about gathering accurate information regarding their history and concepts.
Like academics in other fields, e.g. biology, are not trying to emulate animals either.
Since this seems to be what Zongmi was also trying to do, it makes sense that he would be one of the most important sources.

>Though Zongmi was not character within the zen stories and conversations, you may enjoy reading Foyan, Instant Zen https://www.amazon.com/Instant-Zen-Waking-Up-Present/dp/1556431937 in the sense that Foyan spends a lot of time disabusing Zongmi's followers (not his immediate followers, but the institutional results of Zongm's point of view, which prevailed in Song period Chan Orthodoxy) of which Foyan is critical, and expounds upon.

I've read Foyan already (a year ago or so). I don't remember too much, though.
Maybe I'll reread it when I have time, trying to see how his teaching is actually a reaction to the conceptualized zen of people following
academics Zongmi.

Zen is super confusing at times, which might frustrate the inquirer. Also, there's a lot of seemingly contradictory information, and a lot of the zen masters actually admonished meditation. Without context it's a little unclear as to why, aside from the fact that they didn't want their disciples to meditate for the sake of blissing out. That said, I'd wholly recommend this book, since it's very lucid:

http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Essence-Shambhala-Dragon-Editions/dp/1570625883/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1464891954&sr=8-1&keywords=zen+science+of+freedom

Foyan is featured in it, and his book is fantastic as well:

http://www.amazon.com/Instant-Zen-Waking-Up-Present/dp/1556431937/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1464892102&sr=8-1&keywords=instant+zen

For something a little more challenging but great, go with:

http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Teaching-Huang-Po-Transmission/dp/0802150926/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1464892139&sr=8-1&keywords=zen+teachings+of+huang+po

Have fun!

Thanks!

I don't think the zen characters expressed any metaphysical views, or conceptual explanations in their teachings. Logic, yes, to expose hypocrisy but not to try to support or clarify Mazu’s position.

Mazu points. What is pointed at (the moon) is inherently a mystery. Zen is experienced non verbally, non conceptually.

Zongmi is building conceptual models, truths, a philosophical and metaphysical synthesis, verbal descriptions of reality. This is not what Mazu, Dongshan, or their followers were doing. Later, expecially in the Song period, people who claimed to be in the lineage of Mazu and Dongshan had essentially hijacked the lineage name in order to teach a new Buddhist synthesis, based largely on what Zongmi had done:

>Zongmi's lifelong work was the attempt to incorporate differing and sometimes conflicting value systems into an integrated framework that could bridge not only the differences between Buddhism and the traditional Taoism and Confucianism, but also within Buddhist theory itself.

Zongmi was classifying the finger, not looking at the moon. His interests had nothing to do with zen. And yet Zongmi's work provides the

>"most valuable sources on Tang dynasty Zen. There is no other extant source even remotely as informative"

according to Broughton, who speaks for all modern Buddhist Religious Studies department academia in this regard.

I also addressed some of this in a recent conversation with grass skirt, a Buddhist academic Phd candidate:

https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comments/4u2v6d/hating_ewk/d5nf9ns?context=3

>point me to some other book or website ..... that clarify's Zongmi's interpretation of Mazu

Though Zongmi was not character within the zen stories and conversations, you may enjoy reading Foyan, Instant Zen https://www.amazon.com/Instant-Zen-Waking-Up-Present/dp/1556431937 in the sense that Foyan spends a lot of time disabusing Zongmi's followers (not his immediate followers, but the institutional results of Zongm's point of view, which prevailed in Song period Chan Orthodoxy) of which Foyan is critical, and expounds upon.