Reddit reviews Leaving the Fold: A Guide for Former Fundamentalists and Others Leaving Their Religion
We found 23 Reddit comments about Leaving the Fold: A Guide for Former Fundamentalists and Others Leaving Their Religion. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
Let me just say how sorry I am for your pain. I know how it hurts, how confusing it is, how bleak the future, like the rug has been pulled out from under you. But know this: things do get better. You are going through the stages of grief and it sounds like are very much in the bargaining stage: "If the Church were true, why don't we see more specific revelation about current events?", "If the prophets have such foresight, how could they have completely missed how bad their hiding of history will look when the internet comes around in 50 years?" "If homosexuality is such an abomination, why are the scriptures, especially the BoM--the keystone of our religion and written for our time--completely silent about it?" etc. (At least those were some of my questions I wrestled with when the most obvious solution became more and more apparent: the Mormon Church just isn't what it claims to be.)
I really recommend this book: Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winell. It helped me to work through a lot of issues that I hadn't even considered were issues with leaving religion like self-esteem, shame, guilt, assertive communication, etc.
I don't know how comforting this will be at this time but know that many have walked this path and come out even stronger on the other side. I know that there's no way I would go back to the way I thought before I went down the rabbit hole even with all of its pain and confusion. "Better to Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied." - John Stuart Mill. Make sure and take care of yourself and do plenty of self-care. Things really do and will get better for you. Best.
As a victim of spiritual abuse, I have found this book valuable.
Anger is a perfectly normal reaction as you begin to process trauma. So is sadness. There's a psychologist who talks about "Religious Trauma Syndrome" and has a trio of articles you might find helpful, as well as a website and a book.
Yes, I spent some time rather angry. It's been two or three years now, and while I'm quickly blunt with Christians who inappropriately insert their religion into conversation I'm not labeling and discarding religious people.
Fear of Christians won't be the result of your distancing yourself from them; it's the cause, more less, yeah? It's okay to step back from people or a community that are too close to a trauma you're trying to heal from. I personally had to back off of some friendships temporarily and cut some off entirely when I deconverted, for my own emotional health. When I felt able to, I came back, and my emotionally healthy religious friends were happy to have me in their lives again.
Do what you need to do to feel happiest in the long term, man. And if you can't see the long term, be happy in the short term. You deserve it.
Here are a couple books to consider reading together. They can help him understand and deal with the pressures he's under, and also help you know what he's going through.
Leaving the Fold
~ Marlene, Winel
My ex left the church of her father (a minister) and she recommended that I read this to understand the repercussions of her leaving her family's faith. Perhaps 'Leaving the Fold' will help you understand what challenges lie ahead.
Product Description From Amazon
This book by psychologist Marlene Winell provides valuable insights into the dangers of religious indoctrination and outlines what therapists and victims can do to reclaim a healthier human spirit.... Both former believers searching for a new beginning and those just starting to subject their faith to the requirements of simple common sense, if not analytical reason, may find valuable assistance in these pages. -
Steve Allen, author and entertainer
http://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Fold-Marlene-Winell/dp/1933993235/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261167841&sr=8-1
Really enjoying the book Leaving the Fold right now. It helps realize more clearly the negative impact religion may have had on you and helps normalize what you are feeling. There are also optional exercises at the end of each chapter to process the material.
Then there is the Recovering from Religion website with articles for different topics. A live chat as well with someone who can help point you to resources & see if there is a anonymous support group in your area.
I'm not sure about in Australia, but you can check out these resources:
http://recoveringfromreligion.org/
http://journeyfree.org/
http://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Fold-Marlene-Winell/dp/1933993235
In regards to your wife's questioning of TSCC and possible loss of faith, there are many resources online about exiting from cults and other controlling environments. There are books available which help you navigate these processes so you know what you're feeling is normal and expected. Here are some books which I purchased but have not read, yet. I felt they came well recommended.
If she is not interested in reading them, you might just to coach her along in a passive way.
Also, you mentioned her receiving one-on-one counseling sessions for your relationship. In losing my own testimony, I did find a competent therapist I visited once in awhile to discuss what was going on. I felt the counseling very helpful and probably assisted me in transitioning out much more quickly.
Best of luck to ya.
A book that helped me.
A book that helped me a lot was “Leaving the Fold”
Good luck on your journey!
Two experts come to mind:
Dr. Marlene Winell specializes in what she calls Religious Trauma Syndrome and wrote the book Leaving the Fold about recovering psychologically from fundamentalism. I also like her articles on the website Journey Free.
Dr. Valerie Tarico is great, too. Loved her book Trusting Doubt: A Former Evangelical Looks at Old Beliefs in a New Light.
Both are former evangelicals but get pretty deep into analyzing the effects of their learned patterns; their work is well-researched and insightful, perhaps more on the social sciences side than what you were asking for.
Thanks for this... will definitely check out more.
I have been reading this book... it is geared more to conservative evangelicals but I think there is much overlap... Of course it doesn't get into the details of the JW org, though. https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Fold-Marlene-Winell/dp/1933993235/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1492974859&sr=8-1&keywords=leaving+the+fold
Yeah. I get terrified of how people use religion to knock other people down. Have you ever read the book "Leaving the Fold?" I also grew up in a church like that, and this book helped me deal with a lot of that stuff.
Link, in case you're interested: http://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Fold-Marlene-Winell/dp/1933993235
Instead of spending time and energy that I don't really have to answer what I could fill a book with, I'll drop some relevant quotes from Dr. Marlene Winell's book "Leaving the Fold", which I highly encourage you to read. Warning, I'm about to drop a lot of text to read. Read it in chunks if you have to. But if you really do want to understand, please read it all, even if you have to take breaks.
Disclaimer: the author uses the terms Christianity, conservative Christianity, and fundamentalism interchangeably even though she is aware that they are not synonyms. I have only selected quotes that are generally true of almost all branches of Western Christianity (Eastern Orthodoxy is a whole different animal). I have editorialised all instances to read "Christianity" for readabilities sake.
>In Christianity you are told you are unacceptable. You are judged with regard to your relationship to God. Thus you can only be loved positionally, not essentially. And, contrary to any assumed ideal of Christian love, you cannot love others for their essence either. This is the horrible cost of the doctrine of original sin. Recovering from this unloving assumption is perhaps the core task when you leave the fold. It is also a discovery of great joy—to permit unconditional love for yourself and others.
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>Another devastating assumption of Christianity is that you are helpless and hopeless without the salvation formula. Within that belief system, the only capabilities you could hope to have have been outside of yourself. All the strength, wisdom, and love considered worth anything were to be channeled through you from God. Consequently, you may now feel like an empty shell, without any core, and you may still have a residual tendency to look outside yourself for security and satisfaction.
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>The notion of personal responsibility in Christianity is a curious one. You are responsible for your sins, but you cannot take credit for the good things that you do. Any good that you do must be attributed to God working through you. Yet you must try to be Christ-like. When you fail, it is your fault for not “letting the power of God work in you.” This is an effective double bind of responsibility without ability.
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>Christians are also made to feel guilty when they focus on their own priorities. It is seen as wrong and sinful to be aware of your feelings, honor your intuitions, or seek to meet you needs. You should be above this kind of selfishness and consider God first and then the group. But, since people naturally have needs and feelings, sincere Christians who want to avoid guilt must, in essence, annihilate themselves. This makes for more cooperative adherents.
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>The pattern of indulgence and then remorse illustrated by [the Christian] compares to the behavior of an alcoholic or otherwise addicted individual. The religious addict is attached to the benefits of religion—the sense of righteousness, the social approval, and the emotional comfort—and yet is tempted to explore the forbidden. Because of pressure to stay on the straight and narrow path, decisions to deviate are made impulsively. Then the fear of consequences sets in and the cycle continues with shame and confession. The individual is thus trying to live two lives, engaging in the psychological pattern of “splitting.” Physical symptoms such as backaches, headaches, and sleeplessness can result.
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>However, the adult child of the religious addict lives in this world and he sees another way to live, while at work and on television, in books and magazines or from friends. Occasionally he tries to live in both worlds, enjoying the worldliness of work and friendships, but also returning to the “righteousness” of home. This conflict leads to confusion, self-loathing and an eventual loss of control. Isolation, physical and mental breakdowns, drug abuse, eating disorders, sexual acting-out and violent outbursts of anger could arise—always followed by guilt, shame, and fear of God’s Judgment.
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>The key is that you are considered fundamentally wrong and inept, beginning with the doctrine of original sin. Everything about you is flawed, and you desperately need to be salvaged by God. The damage to self is more than hurt self-esteem. Your confidence in your own judgment is destroyed. As an empty shell, you are then open and vulnerable to indoctrination because you cannot trust your own thinking. Your thoughts are inadequate, your feelings are irrelevant or misleading, and your basic drives are selfish and destructive. You cannot challenge the religious system because your critical abilities are discredited and your intuitions rendered worthless. Illustrating the dependence that is fostered, Jerry Falwell (1982) said, “Start your day off by ridding yourself of self-reliance.”
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>Once you are a believer and no longer have your own mind to rely on, it becomes possible to accept everything you are taught. You can accommodate incredible problems in the religion because you need to avoid cognitive dissonance, as discussed earlier. The stretching of credulity in fundamentalist Christianity is a frequent occurrence. Followers are expected to believe contradictory, nonsensical, and offensive “true stories” in the Bible and church teachings. This serves to strengthen blind adherence because your intuitive reactions have been annihilated.
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>These expectations for personal change and meaningful community are critical for many. Thus when they are not fulfilled, or not satisfied completely, doubt sets in about the system. This issue is far from straight forward, however. Because the individual self is so denigrated in Christian doctrine, failure to experience the benefits of Christian living is usually blamed on the individual. “You weren’t doing something right. You need to pray more,” they say. “Seek the Lord, He is teaching you something. Humble yourself.” This causes sincere believers to keep trying for many years, frustrated but self-blaming. Since many other Christians maintain a positive façade, it can seem as though others are succeeding. Believers go through tortuous cycles of guilt and repentance, trying to get it right. Church attendance and Bible reading can become compulsive as an effort to fend off doubt. Moments of joy and happiness do occur, but you wonder why good feelings cannot be sustained. Many a Bible study is about how to live a more “victorious life.”
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>It [Christianity] also made me less able to love people, rather than more. I was supposed to be full of this love from God, which would make it easier to see people for what they really were, but I didn’t find that to be the case. I was so full of moral distinctions, and I was so anxious to say what I thought was true and to set myself apart and to say I’m a Christian and I think this and that and this is why. I found myself increasingly moralistic and harsh. I found it harder and harder to be friendly, and I became more and more socially isolated, which was just the opposite from what I had imagined.
I know that's a lot to read, but I hope you seriously read over these quotes. They're just a tip of the iceberg for me, and I could say quite a lot in my own words if I had the time or desire.
I've been out for 8 years now and I'm still struggling too, mainly because I have nobody to talk to about it either. There are no meetups near me, no therapists in my area who have ever heard of religious trauma syndrome.
The book Leaving the Fold has some really really good worksheets that helped me process things. https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Fold-Former-Fundamentalists-Religion/dp/1933993235
I don't have panic attacks and anxiety now, but I did when I was losing my faith. I coped by talking with an old youth group pal who was also losing his faith, lurking on atheist / ex-Christian forums, and going through a book called Leaving the Fold, all of which really helped me.
I think it would be helpful for you to find a support group for LGBT+ people of faith. My tradition doesn't teach a literal hell, so I don't have a lot of advice for you on that part, but I do think that the needs of LGBT+ religious folk are very different from secular folk, and that it is a niche where special resources are necessary.
A book that can be helpful for people leaving a fundamentalist background is Leaving the Fold which addresses the issue of how automatic thoughts like "I'm going to hell" can lead to depression and trauma symptoms.
There's also https://www.reddit.com/r/GayChristians/ but I have no idea what the community dynamic there is like.
If you like the linked article, consider this book which I have found extremely helpful.
There's one called Leaving the Fold that I haven't read yet but am interested in reading myself. Looks to have good reviews and seems appropriate for my own situation, may also be helpful for yours.
Edit: formatting
Looks like you haven't been indoctrinated into fundamentalist religion then. Maybe you are a part of the indoctrination cycle and this is some defense mechanism. Its not far off. I don't think you understand what a toxic doctrine is or what makes it toxic. For example Jesus teaching that thinking something "sinful" was just as bad as doing it (oh the OCD this creates.)... Heres another one....that you are worthless, damned and evil to the core. Heres another one, Without our belief system, you are going to burn and be tormented forever and ever and ever.(This is very impactful with kids, fear anxiety, coercion to conform). These are what one would call oppressive beliefs. You wouldnt know that if you hadnt actually tried to live them before. The graph and post are not intellectually dishonest, or hard to understand.
Children dont really develop strong critical thinking or rational thinking skills strong enough to withstand or fend off religious pressure until about the ages of 15-20. 86% of converts to christianity do so before the age of 14(children). 96% before age 30. Indoctrination is about pounding these ideas, beliefs, dogmas, etc.. into a child's head as effortlessly as possible; the child trusts and cannot mount an arguement against it. The child also wants to please the parents because it depends on them for survival.
Faith is actually the inverse of critical thinking. In a sense, it is backwardness. Critical thinking is about evidence based truth. Faith is about belief without or in spite of the evidence. Many philosophers have recognized that religion suppresses critical thought. Dogma, fear, isolation.. well all the factors she listed basically play into this. How many well adjusted critically thinking people have you met that were raised in strict fundementalist households? The proof is in the pudding.
She has a book called leaving the fold on amazon. You can read the reviews, there are basically like testimonials on damage healing from people who have bought and read the book. Its rated 4.5/5 stars. http://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Fold-Marlene-Winell/product-reviews/1933993235/ref=dp_db_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
I don't know of any AA type groups, but I know there are meet up groups in various places, especially Utah.
Also, the psychologist who coined the term Religious Trauma Syndrome came up with this workbook to help people with the transition: Leaving the Fold: A Guide for Former Fundamentalists and Others Leaving Their Religion https://www.amazon.com/dp/1933993235/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_rQ5HDbTQVQ4X2
I'm considering giving it a shot. Maybe it could help you?
Marlene Winell, the clinical psychologist who developed the idea of Religious Trauma Syndrome, wrote a great book called "Leaving the Fold." It focuses on the emotional impact of leaving your faith, and it has a number of excellent insights into the psychological effects of being raised religious. It also has psychological exercises for recovering from various aspects of religious indoctrination. I found it very helpful at the beginning of my deconversion. Highly recommended.
Leaving the Fold
Leaving the Fold: Testimonies of Former Fundamentalists
Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist
Why I Am Not a Muslim
Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships
In Search of the Light: The Adventures of a Parapsychologist
Crazy for God: How I Grew Up as One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right, and Lived to Take All (or Almost All) of It Back