Reddit reviews Nigger: The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word

Dammit, I thought I could add sanity flair to my own posts. Is there a mod in the house?
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EDIT: List of pages linked in the original post /u/Jero79, this is for you!

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> [this book](https://www.amazon.com/Nigger-Strange-Career-Troublesome-Word/dp/0375713719?ie=UTF8&keywords=nigger%3A%20the%20strange%20career%20of%20a%20troublesome%20word&qid=1382955230&ref=sr_1_1&sr=8-1)

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> This is a LIE

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> other FA bloggers

links to a post titled 'Big Fat List of Myth-Defying Health Resources', which a the name suggests is a list of links to about 30 FA articles, blog posts, TED talks etc. I'm not going to screenshot it because it's too complicated to sort out who counts as a 'public figure', plus there's not much point anyway without the links to the pages in question.

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> misrepresenting obesity research

I think this post is also by OP on a different blog, but I'm not a tumblr native so I'm not 100% sure how it all works. They noted that the formatting was screwed up, so I re-ordered it to how I understand it's meant to be: the block quote is from an FA blog, which the anonymous ask was posted to, and OP then reblogged the ask and added a response to the FA poster. The 'myth-busting resources' part links to a different FA blogger's list of peer-reviewed articles 'supporting' their FA views, and the post I've screenshotted is OP's analysis of the first article. (And if you're confused by that explanation, just think how I felt trying to sort through it in the first place.)

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> they don't even appear to read

is a dead link. According to archive.is it was an anti-FA tumblr post listing 'articles' cited by an FA blogger that are actually blog posts and opinion pieces.

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> fabricates stories

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> I was wrong

I hadn't read that last one and I'm kind of wishing I'd kept it that way, because now I'm just angry. Seriously, what a cunt.

Do yourself a favor...

WE.DON'T.CALL.EACH.OTHER.NIGGERS.

Nigga and Nigger have to wayyyy different connotations. I'm not gonna get into this argument again but please read that or something like it. Nigga gets thrown around alot, not nigger. Yes, they are different.

I believe that came from the black power movement of the mid 20th century, as a way of taking the power of the word away from white people and putting it in the hands of black people.
For more information on the word, check out this book, it's really interesting. http://www.amazon.com/Nigger-Strange-Career-Troublesome-Word/dp/0375713719/ref=la_B001IOF8XQ_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345003057&sr=1-1

>The only place I can seem to find any real opinion other than the simple "Its bad" seems to be in stand up routines, so I want to hear what you have to say.

I have some suggestions.

Start with Randall Kennedy's book, and then watch the documentary "The N Word".

I also recommend this discussion between Cornel West and Michael Eric Dyson, hosted by Tavis Smiley.

There's more, but that should get you started.

There was a GIF making the rounds recently, in which a black woman says (to the best of my memory): "You want to say it, but you don't want the unemployment gap. You want to say it, but you don't want to get pulled over all the time for no reason. You want to say it, but you don't want poverty and discrimination." That pretty much sums it up for me.

The word has a long history of dehumanization and white supremacy, and while black folks have endeavored mightily to reclaim some of their humanity by turning it into a term of endearment for each other (much like gay people call each other "queers" in a loving way), I don't know of a single white person who has earned the right to say it in that way. (Well, maybe Tim Wise, but he wouldn't want to.)

> See, the problem here is your taking the context entirely and exclusively from the Anglo-Saxon's point of view in this time.

I'm going off of an idea presented in Nigger: The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word where the use of the word extends beyond being an insult or slur, and in this case is being used exclusively as a synonym to a color. It's not a very sensitive name for an animal, given every potential audience, but this was not a case of Lovecraft using the term with any intent to cause offense.

> The translation point is also a very flawed argument.

I wasn't making an argument, I was pointing the translation bit out as an aside.

> So basically what you are getting at here is he knew how to behave when he felt like it.

My point is that like all of us, Lovecraft was sensitive to his audience and adopted his language (and, in some cases, subject matter) to accommodate. He did not deliberately seek to offend people (with a few notable exceptions), and worked actively not to offend people on the subject of race or ethnicity. It's code-switching, basically, and we all do it; I pointed it out to emphasize that Lovecraft was generally aware of the impact of his language and tailored it accordingly.

Keep in mind, I'm not at any point arguing Lovecraft wasn't racist - only that the specific example, the name of his cat which he later adopted for "The Rats in the Walls," which offends so many people today, is really not an example of Lovecraft being consciously racist. The dude had a lot of moments of saying heinous shit, but that particular one is not quite what you're trying to make of it.

I don't care what anybody says, it's fine for everyone to use IMO. I may not agree with it's usage in a ton of contexts, i don't agree with it's over usage is somewhat "positive" contexts, but it has it's useful place.

Some examples:

Hotel Rwanda - Nick Nolte is explaining why the western world isn't helping in the Rwanda genocides "You're not even niggers to them, you're african". Wow, what a powerful statement on how the world views africa and the tragedies that have occured there, not appropriate in a movie script said by a white guy? I think not.

How about John Lennon's feminist song "woman is the nigger of the world". Political, socially relevant, responsible, and not hateful at all.

Patti Smith and Marilyn Manson have also made similar usages of the word. Initial uses of it by blacks in comedy and in rap music, to turn the word around and make it empowering was cool at first. It MEANT something. Now it's been over-used in this context and is meaningless, IMO.

Or how about Public Enemy's Apocalypse 91? The album views the present and does not shy away from such terms as "genocide" ("One Million Bottlebags") and "holocaust" ("Can't Truss It") to describe the systematic assault of institutional racism on black people. But the point of this album is that unless black people unify in resistance, all will surely be lost. This idea is conveyed most chillingly in the brief segment that introduces "A Letter to the N.Y. Post." Over a country-style fiddle sample, a white man speaking in a genial Southern accent describes himself as a member of the Ku Klux Klan and offers the following remarks: "I'd like to express our deepest gratitude at the destruction of the inferior nigger race, and I'm especially pleased to report it's destroying itself without our help. To all you gangs, hoodlums, drug pushers and users, and other worthless niggers killing each other, we'd like to thank y'all for saving us the time, trouble and legality for the final chapter of riddin' y'all off the face of the Earth. Your solution to our problem is greatly appreciated, so keep selling us your soul."

How about the book of that name:Nigger: The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word
http://www.amazon.com/Nigger-Strange-Career-Troublesome-Word/dp/0375713719/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216392910&sr=8-1

A nice insight look into the history of the word, legal cases, and cultural takes on it. Not appropriate then?

This is the thing I loathe about political correctness, absolutely loathe. Its focuses on words, and at times, even words that sound like certain words, and never looks at context.

That's the problem with censorship in general be it in the work place, in schools, by your government, by culture, by any group whatsoever. It rarely looks at context. And you can't. Context is a hard thing, if not impossible at times, to create solid rules or etiquettes around. And people don't like that. They like quick, dirty, black/white, right/wrong, absolution in their judgments. And it's bullshit for people, especially liberals and academia who are supposedly so much more open minded, to act like such simpletons over the matter.

The person that wrote this is an idiot. Now excuse me, I'm off to read To Kill A Mockingbird. I hope I don't get the twerp's panties in a bunch.

Yeah they have completely different meanings. They're probably both always or usually offensive when said by non-blacks in a non-academic capacity, but that doesn't mean they're equally abhorrent and offensive was my point, and people in the linked thread seem to be treating the word "nigga" with the same disgusted reverence with which we treat the word "nigger."

There's been a lot written about it, although I've read very little on it. Here's one book, and I find it fairly amusing that reviewers can't even refer to it by name.

If the question is scholarship and clarity, no fault can be found with Randall Kennedy's [N-word]

That's probably because amazon doesn't allow cursing in their reviews, but it's still funny, like that poor reporter who tried to talk to Sam Jackson about it. If somebody can't even say it when they're directly talking about it, they're probably not ready to talk about it, as Sam Jackson so hilariously showed.

Part1

> Because you're statement was so dumb that I needed to know if you're accidentally being stupid or intentionally being stupid and I really believe it was intentional given that I'm not the only one having this problem with you.

I assure you that there wasn't just a single person who confronted LGBTQ people, how many people confront you about something has no bearing on whether or not that person is right or in this case stupid. Again, context is important. If I go into a comment section that's pro-flat earth and talk about the globe and NASA, I'm gonna get people who have a problem with me

>Yeah non black people rap all the time and are supported, but saying the n-word isn't some activity to be excluded from and it's not some great piece of culture.

It is an activity when it's including in music in which singing along is a major part of it. Also "nigga" is a part of culture, again maybe go watch that documentary or read up more on that phrasing of the word.

> It's that, from a popular argument from black people that I agree with

What about from black people who don't agree with the use of the N word?

>you don't know what it's like to be black so you don't get to say the n-word.

Then this to me shows that black people are using it specifically as something to hold over white peoples heads as a form of guilt (because after all this time they haven't stopped using it and they haven't 100% reformed it to rid it of its power over them either) and also holding themselves in this never ending cycle of using a word that was used to refer to them as subhuman.

>This is why I don't believe that you're not white and that you grew up in the ghetto, your understanding of racial issues in America is so bad that I can't believe that someone who's been treated as a minority in America could be so ignorant.

Is this the same way you feel about affluent black people? Who have never experienced the racism that others have who lived in harsh environments? I wasn't subject to racism myself that I can recall but my family was, my grandmother was called a wetback and spic while out shopping and trying to take care of my mother and aunt while they were fussy.

The only times I've ever heard the N word being thrown around, it was never from a white person in a derogatory fashion, it was from black people calling each other that and maybe some of their non-black friends too. When you do grow up in the ghetto brotherhood is important, especially when families are so broken. We didn't have time to care about who used the word nigga, fighting was a waste of time and energy when all it would do was get you thrown in jail. I lived in Phoenix, Arizona. Born and raised there. I don't live there now. Sorry I don't have a special minority credential card to upload a picture for you, must have missed the paperwork on that when I was busy trying to get by.

Your issue is that because I'm a minority, you expected me to face some kind of automatic discrimination and just "know" how it feels, the fact that I haven't makes you question if I'm one at all, doesn't that kinda say more about you and your beliefs? In fact I've faced more discrimination because I'm a female than I have for my race.

>Like you don't even understand the basic concepts behind what we're talking about, do you know the history of black people in America and how the n-word might have such a charged history and such an impact?

Do you?

https://theundefeated.com/features/if-you-truly-knew-what-the-n-word-meant-to-our-ancestors-youd-never-use-it/

https://www.loc.gov/collections/slave-narratives-from-the-federal-writers-project-1936-to-1938/about-this-collection/

https://www.amazon.com/Nigger-Strange-Career-Troublesome-Word/dp/0375713719

https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/23/opinions/holmes-n-word/index.html

http://www.ycteenmag.org/topics/african-americans/The_'N'_Word:_It_Just_Slips_Out.html?story_id=NYC-1994-01-07

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/04.09.98/cover/nigger-9814.html

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2001/08/05/loc_1the_n-word.html

The NAACP denounces the use of both "nigga" and "nigger".

I am either for abolishing the word so that no one has power to use it (since it's used to refer to people as subhumans, even blacks saying it doesn't disregard it's history) or stripping of its power and allowing everyone to use it so that it's normalized and no one person has that power over another.

Are any of these black men also stupid and ignorant of black history? Or are they more aware of it and know that the word shouldn't be used at all. Which view of reality is valid?

>And golf remains an extremely white sport, one of the whitest sports.

Yup but no one is saying black people can't play, use a particular word or anything of the sort.

The majority of hiphop listeners are white.

>Cool, so you know you're not black. Now we know you shouldn't say the n-word, how is this so confusing?

Cause I'm not white either? Didn't you say if you're white you shouldn't say it? I'm not white. Other races didn't have the same history that America had in regards to "nigger" and the slave trade, right? So then this isn't a white thing, this is entirely a "we get to use it and you don't" issue. It's certainly not about them feeling hurt because a white person said it to a black person and it has racial historical connotations, right? Latinos actually say nigga amongst their families and black people because they often grew up living a similar life and also consist of mixed heritage.

>Because black people don't like it, that's why. Who are you to tell them how to feel about their racial slur?

Is it a racial slur? Cause they don't use it as one, it's a term of endearment, or does it magically turn into one when it comes from the lips of someone with a lighter skin tone than them?

>But the n-word isn't.

Then don't put it in the song that is going to be sung by millions, whom are majority white and then be upset when they say it? Like go ahead and sing about your experience, that's beautiful and what it's for, but don't include a word that is apparently so volatile that over half the world can't say apparently if your skin color doesn't match without getting upset about it while fully knowing they didn't mean any disrespect.

>Good thing we're not talking about a song like Rap God and that we're not talking about the average fan. Why the fuck would you ever go on stage to rap at Kendrick's concert it you don't the lyrics? That's dumber than shouting out the n-word at the crowd.

Far as I knew from the news sources, she was picked to go on stage. He later kicked her off for not knowing the rest of the lyrics (as I explained) which means I highly doubt she'd have chosen to embarrass herself on stage in front of a celeb and all those people. Other bands like the Chainsmokers were there too, she was probably there for them and got picked by Kendrick, to which she tried her best to follow along.

>Then don't get on stage at his concert to rap the song that you don't know. Do you know how disrespectful that is to everyone involved? And how everyone is gonna hate you for it?

EXACTLY, which is why I don't know why you think she'd just do that to herself for no reason.

>I do for all the ones that I'm confident enough to go on any stage and perform.

Exactly. Me too.

>You don't need to explain music theory to me, I know much more about music theory than you ever will. The fact is that you keep proving yourself wrong and can't seem to understand it. You admit that the chorus is the part that everyone knows and then claim that this girl who is confident enough to get on stage and perform this song by herself, doesn't know the words to the chorus and accidentally shouts the n-word a few times in a row and doesn't even blink. Those are contradictory beliefs to hold.

No? She knew the chorus(hook) because it's the part that's repeated in a song, it's also the most viral. Even if you don't know the main verses, you'd probably know the hook. Which is the only part she was really able to sing. How is this contradictory?

Also you don't know what my experience with music is, that's awfully rude to say.

>Where the fuck did you grow up in America where you had no idea about American culture? Where did you ever see or hear about anyone else eating popcorn on fucking pizza and how do you not know anything about American race relations while being a racial minority?

I didn't think you cared so much about my life story. I grew up in Phoenix, Arizona to a mix of mostly mexican and native relatives. I'm unsure how the "tradition" of eating popcorn and pizza together was started, but that's how I grew up and it never came up in conversation with people before so I didn't question it. I mean my girlfriend never even knew what a tamale was other than the hot tamale candies.

You can't tell me that you're expertly or even adequately versed in all cultures and that you don't have your own family traditions. It's like our mexican neighbors growing up, they had an incredible fear of cats, never knew why but I didn't think they were weird. They probably had a reason to fear them, either from a prior experience or something, they wouldn't just fear them for no reason. I thus imagine that their children weren't raised around cats very much if at all and had to grow up and learn about them as pets. I wouldn't think of them as stupid or how the hell they grew up and never had or seen a cat in America. That's just being mean and ignorant on my part.

I'll reply to my own post for Part2 since it's over the character limit.

Its the same thing. Words have meaning, yes? N-word is a euphemism for nigger. It means exactly the same thing. If i say lick my arse, you get that i'm telling you to lick my ass. The whole concept of a word being forbidden is silly; regardless of whose feelings get hurt by hearing a word. I'm not going to be disrespectful and call this the N-word book.