Reddit reviews No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith
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Vintage
No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith https://www.amazon.com/dp/0679730540/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_dE1KAbJZEKJ0S
"Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it" (D&C 135:3)
Seriously, after I read Mormon Polygamy: A History and No Man Knows My History and thought about how I'd been taught to deify Joseph Smith and knew little to nothing about the actual man, it was then that I understood the allegations of cult-like characteristics that are lodged against the Mormon church.
I know that the literature you are allowed to read on a mission is very limited. However, before you go, you could do some research on Joseph Smith as a person. He was a very colorful character, and had an extremely interesting life. Sometimes you have to go outside of official church doctrine on him to get the full picture because they don't want their prophet to look like what we all are: flawed human beings.
Myself, I am a non-believer. However, even with the flaws Joseph Smith had, I don't think that precludes anyone from believing that his message has value.
Edit: http://www.amazon.com/No-Man-Knows-My-History/dp/0679730540/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1405797598&sr=8-4&keywords=joseph+smith
I would STRONGLY recommend this book. I feel it gives a balanced account of his life. It's not a book that tries to demonize JS, nor a book that portrays him as a perfect, godly man. It's just a book that tries to get at what his life was all about.
This book is specific to Joseph Smith, but No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith is fantastic.
Don't read "anti" stuff. Read Being Logical by D. Q. McInerny, Rough Stone Rolling or No Man Knows My History (your choice), and then examine your copy of Preach My Gospel. Knowing that there are reasonable alternative explanations around for the historical perspectives the Church offers, look at the arguments for the Church in the manual. Ask yourself: are they valid? Are they sound? Are there logical fallacies employed in crux arguments (e.g. is it affirming the consequent to believe that spiritual feelings guarantee the possible but not singular potential causes for those feelings)?
Edit: added some links
Thanks for mentioning us pre-internet pioneers of exmo-ness.
I left in late 1995. Made the mistake of reading Richard S. Van Wagoner's "Mormon Polygamy: A History"
I felt so guilty for reading that book. But, I just couldn't put it down. It was the first time I felt like someone was giving me a real picture of Joseph Smith the man, not the myth. Decided I needed to balance out what I was getting in Van Wagoner's book with something more "church approved." Went to Deseret Book. Asked the girl working if they had anything on polygamy. She said she thought they had one book- they did. It was the book I was already reading.
That was the moment I took the red pill. There was no turning back and the floodgates were opened. I then read:
And then I started checking out copies of Sunstone and Dialogue.
I started checking out some of the articles at Utah Lighthouse Ministries and made one trip to their book store, but I was already becoming an atheist and I didn't really like how they weren't just trying to debunk Mormonism but also trying to sell born again xianity.
By November of 1996 I was already attending a Unitarian Universalist congregation and also pretty much an athiest at that point.
When stuff like MormonThink came along, I was already pretty much post-Mormon. And, when I discovered r/exmormon, I was suddenly surprised at how much I liked watching what was happening here.
I'm always surprised at the announcements people make about being done with this place. But, then I found it when I was already over all the emotional rage at having been deceived. I think I just like watching the train wreck at this point. People's posts here really give me the sense that Mormonism is imploding at a rate faster than this stodgy institution is prepared to deal with- makes me happy.
No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith Paperback – August 1, 1995
https://www.amazon.com/No-Man-Knows-My-History/dp/0679730540
My initial thoughts:
See if any of those pique your interest. I found them all to be fair, with little bias. Happy studying!
The video says that you wouldn't be able to do research.
That's BS. I didn't watch past that. If they are going to make stipulations like that, assuming Joseph didn't have access to some sort of research, or a pre-written book even, than I could care less what other shit they dribble on about.
If you have time to read a book, No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie covers a lot on the authorship of the BOM. Truthfully though it wouldn't matter what books or websites you gave your brother, as a true believer he has to deny all evidence contrary to his beliefs.
*Grammar
Lots of people here are or have been in the same boat. You are not alone.
Focus on your relationship with your wife and kids. Most people recommend going very slowly with spouses. You will have to bring up your issues some day. If nothing else your wife may notice your change in attitude. The critical thing at that point (or before that point) is to make sure your wife knows that you love her. You are questioning the church, not your marriage. Many TBMs have trouble making that distinction.
The second most important thing is that when you do start talking to your wife about church issues is to make sure she does not run to her family for advice. That is one reason to start slowly at the very edges. Ask that she keep your confidence. Cultivate the idea that this is something that the two of you have to work out together, and that family interference will only make it worse. It is the two of you against the world.
A family member or close friend leaving the church might be an opportunity to talk about why they left. I know you said that your families are uber TBM, but don't be surprised if someone does come out as ex.
One thing you might do is get a copy of No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie. It is an old book. Get it in paperback and let your wife see you reading it. Encourage her to read it with you.
I think the book used to be sold at Deseret Books, but I don't see it on their website. It might still be available in a brick and mortar store. Here is the Amazon link if you can't find it an official church site.
Here's how I would put the many Joseph Smith books out there. I would be intrigued with others thoughts:
Joseph Smith 101 - LDS.org / anything put out by the Church (hagiographical with definite faith-promoting angle)
Joseph Smith 201 - Truman G. Madsen's Joseph Smith the Prophet (my first foray into JS while on my mission), things put out by Deseret Book (tend to be more friendly), FAIR Mormon (apologetic, faith-promoting angle)
Joseph Smith 301 - BYU Studies on Joseph Smith (especially the 1970s pieces written during a more "free" time of LDS history access), Donna Hill's Joseph Smith the First Mormon (written by non-Mormon, fairly friendly and objective)
Joseph Smith 401 - Richard Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling, Tippets and Avery's "Emma Hale Smith: Mormon Enigma," any Dialogue and Journal of Mormon History article pertaining to Joseph Smith.
Graduate-level Joseph Smith - Joseph Smith Papers for primary source documentation, Dan Vogel's "Early Mormon Documents," (again, source documentation), Fawn Brodie's "No Man Knows My History" (again for source documentation that she had unavailable to us in 2016). Primary sources allow you to begin your own research. I'm not very good in this area, but I do try.
Get started here. http://mormonthink.com/ Then check out this book. http://www.amazon.com/No-Man-Knows-My-History/dp/0679730540 Next I'd move onto http://www.amazon.com/History-God-000-Year-Judaism-Christianity/dp/0345384563
and This is a big help for developing some critical thinking skills: http://www.amazon.com/Demon-Haunted-World-Science-Candle-Dark/dp/0345409469
They don't even know Joseph Smith.
I found my way out by reading about church history over the course of many months (I didn't know about about the CES Letter at the time). The issues never seemed to end and never had good explanations, and I finally could not keep trying to dig the church out of the pit it had created for itself.
Nothing can definitively prove that the church isn't true. I still can't prove it isn't true, but I have overwhelming evidence that it isn't. If you're 1) a reasonable, open-minded person; 2) read about problems in the church/church history; and 3) realize that it is illogical that a supreme being would allow and perpetuate these problems, then you'll find peace of mind in leaving the church. Try picking up a copy of "No Man Knows My History" by Fawn Brodie from the library. Hide it under your bed when you're not reading it--that's what I did :)
Leaving has removed an enormous burden that I didn't even know I was carrying.
If you happen to like reading, and are interested in more on the history of Mormonism, I once read this biography of Joseph Smith called No Man Knows My History. It was actually recommended to me by a District Overseer I knew a long time ago, (he knew how much I loved to read) which was really the only reason I got away with reading it at the time. People would see me reading it and ask what I thought I was doing and I would just tell them the D.O recommended it to me and they would shut up. Anyway, it was fascinating, well written, and really just an interesting perspective on the history of the church.
The Oxford Short Introductions Series has a great volume on Mormonism that covers the faith in a very even-handed and neutral manner. If you're pressed for time, this would probably be the best thing to read. The Dummies and Idiot's Guide are actually not that bad in their presentation of the faith; they're both by what would be termed "liberal Mormons" and do a pretty good job of being realistic in their presentation (though both still being very positive, of course, but they're not conversion texts).
To understand the different faiths in the Latter Day Saint movement you need to understand the history of the faith as so much of the faith claims are rooted in historical events. Books like Rough Stone Rolling and No Man Knows My History give a good overview of Joseph Smith's life. The upcoming Brigham Young biography by John Turner seems like it will also be a good source for information on Young's tenure as president of the Church as it will discuss some of the darker/stranger issues like blood atonement and Adam-God. If you want to go in depth on the history of the Temple ritual, I'd recommend Buerger's The Mysteries of Godliness.
The last information I would give is that most (but not all) books published by Christian publishers should probably be avoided. Nowadays most of them are factual in their content, but their presentation is not meant to provide an understanding of the LDS Church but rather is meant to provide a multiplicity of reasons not to associate with the faith. A few exceptions I'd say are most books by Sandra and Gerald Tanner, and By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus which is an amazing overview of Joseph's "Book of Abraham" and the history and implications of the papyri Smith used in producing it which were rediscovered in 1967 to the subtle consternation of the CHurch ever since.
If you haven't studied "anti-Mormon" sources, you can't claim you aren't any of those things, because that's part of it. The constant reminders to only get your information from the church. That is one of the biggest elements of indoctrination, brainwashing, and sheltering.
They're preventing you from doing thorough research and frankly, it's not our job to digest all of for you. The problems with the church are so numerous there is no way anyone is going to be able to lay them all out for you in a comment on a reddit post. Asking us to tell you why we left is not evidence you weren't indoctrinated if you refuse to go do the study yourself.
Most active members have no idea just how much information there is and that no, it is not spun. Here's a little bit of the history on why and how the real history the church is now trying to manage finally came out. There is a couple in Provo who have a Christian ministry basically dedicated to taking down the Mormon church. Around 1990 they published a pamphlet that talked about some serious stuff the vast majority of members didn't know, like Joseph's Smith polygamy. Normally the church wouldn't respond to these things, but they felt the claims were worrisome enough (getting questions from members) they needed to publish a response, so they invited two BYU historians into the archives (you know the ones in the mountain) to study ALL of the historical documents they had and write a refutation debunking the Tanner's claims.
For about two years Michael Quinn and Dan Vogel studied every document and took photos of each one, with the church's blessing. Problem was, not only did what they find back up the Tanner's claims, but the actual history was much worse (things like Polyandry). They did write a rebuttal, but it was rejected by the Q15 and they were told not to publish anything at all, ever. More than twenty years later the essays on lds.org the church finally published to at least be a little bit honest are right out of Vogel and Quinns essays. By being a little bit I mean, if you not only read the essays, but then follow the footnotes, well. It's not good. The Saints book is the same way. It doesn't out and out lie, but talk about out of context and leaving out very important information if it's too faith challenging. It's still not fully honest. Not even remotely. Shouldn't the church have to be as honest as they expect the membership?
Being historians, not publishing and keeping it all a secret didn't sit well with them and they published anyway. In fact, Dan Vogel made all those facsimiles of all those documents, thousands and thousands of them, available to any other scholar wanting to pour through them and publish their own findings. For their trouble they were excommunicated as part of the September Six (google it).
Many (maybe most on church history) of the anti-Mormon books out there directly source these documents and you can even get them yourself. Dan Vogel published all of them in several volumes called, "Early Mormon Documents." The goal was to publish all the source material he and Quinn had collected without editorial comment. I'm not sure how much more objective it can get or how any Mormon can claim the stacks of books that came out of these are not sourced or dishonest.
If you want a summary list of the major issues, and it's a long one, you should download the free pdf version of the CES letter on cesletter.org. Then read the rebuttals over on Fair Mormon. Then read the rebuttals to the rebuttals.
When I left, a nice summary didn't exist, so I had to read books and boy did I read a lot of them. I happened to start with Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith, which is well sourced out of the RLDS archives, but I also read Grant Palmer's, An Insider's View of Mormon Origins. Incidentally, he was another BYU professor excommunicated for publishing the irrefutable truth. Keep in mind, these people were active members. They were not trying to tear down the church. They simply felt it was morally wrong to continue to have blatant and significant inaccuracies in teaching manuals, in conference talks, in Seminary, in well......everything.
My reading list (those I can remember at least):
Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith
An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
Joseph Smith: The Making of a Prophet (A Biography)
No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith
The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power
Mormon America: The Power and the Promise
If you still think everything other than what is directly published by the church are anti-Mormon lies or tricks, well I can help you there at too. How deep have you gotten into Journal of Discourses? It's almost worse than anything written by an anti-Mormon. So much worse than a couple of troublesome quotes. I also re-read the D&C while reading Teaching of the Prophet Joseph Smith in tandem. It was a lot harder to swallow that way to say the least and both of those are obviously considered faithful study.
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If you want to claim you aren't brainwashed or indoctrinated you have to do the work. Saying "I posted on Reddit and no one convinced me," or the other favorite, "people much smarter than me have already studied all that and say its fine," are not valid arguments. They're lazy cop outs.
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Good luck on your search for truth. I encourage you to study it out from ALL sources, including faithful sources you haven't yet studied.
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edited to add: Forgot one of the most important. In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith
edited edited to add: If you want something a little more biased for the church you can even just read Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling. If you're going to read the D&C and Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith at the same time as I did, I recommend at least reading this one first. It's going to be much clearer if you've read at least one of the biographies and Rough Stone Rolling was published by Deseret Book.
Absolutely best historical account of it all coming to be is "No Man Knows my History" by Fawn Brodie.
https://www.amazon.com/No-Man-Knows-My-History/dp/0679730540
Worth reading every page.
I always thought the only known photograph of Smith was the one used on the cover of No Man Knows My History (got to love the hair do). We had someone do a presentation about this one at our temple visitor's center. He also compared the facial features in the photo to the death mask. Note, the version on the book cover is a painted replica.
If you really want to go down the rabbit hole, you might as well read the book that started it all No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie.
If I can find it in the UK I'm sure you must be able to find it in the USA: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0679730540/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_NKdjub0M3YDAK
Origin of Species, by Charles Darwin
https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Species-150th-Anniversary/dp/0451529065
No man knows my history, by Fawn Brodie
https://www.amazon.com/No-Man-Knows-My-History/dp/0679730540/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1485453081&sr=1-1&keywords=No+man+knows+my+history
Books:
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No man knows my history - History with the anti-mormon bias.
Emma Hale Smith story - History from Emma's eyes written by two faithful members, quietly blacklisted for not being faith promoting enough.
Rough stone rolling - History written from a very faithful LDS, but with a page or two after every page of facts defending the LDS church's position and authority. The goal was to surpass Brodie's no man knows my history, but it wasn't as popular.
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Websites:
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"FAIR" - Mormon apologetic group. They will support each point above while wrapping it in a page long defense that boils down to "no problem, keep believing".
Mormonthink the Premier website on factual documentation from a neutral or anti perspective. It's about finding the facts and building judgement rather than finding a position and supporting it with facts and belief.
Wives of joseph smith - List of all validated wives of Joseph
Joseph's declaration of Monogomy (wikipedia) - Note this was canonized in 1835, and removed in the 1880's (ironically just a few years prior to the LDS church abandoning the practice). Note: this is still sourced in the history of the church.
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More sources, including podcasts, available upon request.
While I don't consider it to be a cult, the history of Mormonism is extremely interesting, as is the life of it's founder, Joseph Smith.
A good book written by a member of the church is called "Rough Stone Rolling." Another great one by a non mormon is called "No Man Knows My History"
This is a particular difficulty in Mormon history--for a long time anything put in print seemed to have an extreme bias one way or another. In recent years there seems to be a greater effort in Mormon Studies in adhering to better historical standards that I think result in better, more accurate, and less biased narratives. Personally, I don't think I'd use Krakauer as a source because he's a good writer, but not a historian.
I think better sources to use would be:
Richard Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling (2005). Bushman was a history professor at Columbia University and is a Mormon. His bio of Smith will likely be considered the "standard" bio for years to come. It's a bit longish, but I think it's very readable regardless if you are Mormon or not.
Robert V. Remini's Joseph Smith (2002) is a quick read--a lot shorter than Bushman and a good overview. Remini was a history professor at the University of Illinois and is not a Mormon. He's best known for his massive biography on Andrew Jackson, a contemporary of Smith.
Fawn M. Brodie's No Man Knows My History (1945) is old, but is still often referenced. Brodie was a history professor at UCLA. She was raised Mormon, but was later excommunicated. Her book is a psychobiography which is a historical approach that has largely fallen out of fashion these days.
I'd definitely recommend looking at josephsmithpapers.org. It is an on-going publication project that is putting digital images and transcriptions of all of Joseph Smith's personal papers as well as the papers produced by his clerks under his direction. You'll find letters, revelations, early editions of the Book of Mormon, and all sorts of stuff! I'd take a look at Smith's own personal history written in 1832, and his history begun in 1838 and continued over the years even after his death and finally finished in 1856. (For more info on these specific documents, be sure to read the text under "Historical Introduction" in the bottom half of the pages.)
Another good narrative on that site is the book written by Smith's mother, Lucy Mack Smith. You can find the published 1853 version here. (Skip most of the early stuff--she spends a lot of pages talking about her own parents and childhood. While interesting, it's probably not pertinent for your paper.)
The site also has a good overview of Joseph Smith's life and his papers written by Richard Bushman and Dean Jessee too.
There are a lot of academic journals out there too that will have articles about various aspects of Joseph Smith's life or of his contemporaries (in no particular order): BYU Studies, Journal of Mormon History, John Whitmer Historical Association Journal, Mormon Historical Studies. You can find articles in BYU's Studies in Mormon History database and I bet JSTOR or other places probably have some of them.
If you need help finding info on a specific aspect on Smith, feel free to send me a message and I'll try to help best I can.
By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus: A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri by Charles M. Larson
Quick read, great full color foldout photos of the papyri (best available anywhere, I believe).
No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie
https://www.amazon.com/His-Own-Hand-Upon-Papyrus/dp/0962096326
https://www.amazon.com/No-Man-Knows-My-History/dp/0679730540
It's just under $14 on amazon.
I would suggest giving a bit more time since many of us on here have limited hours in the day to read.
Which part of the mormon movement do you belong to? Community of Christ? Temple Lot? Bickertonite? Strangite? Cutlerite? Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? How do you know that your particular branch is the true church?
Have you ever read "No Man Knows My History" by Fawn Brodie?
What is your opinion on the origins of the Book of Abraham? Specifically, how do you rectify the fact that the original papyrus that Joseph Smith claimed to translate was found in the 60's and accurately translated by Egyptologists, and it had nothing to do with anything J.S. said it did?
Have you ever seen any of the 3 Nephites, or heard stories about them?
Have you been to r/exmormon?
Interesting, the melodramatic effects were really annoying though...
Everyone on this subreddit needs to read No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie if they haven't already.
I found it on amazon. I think its up to the publisher as to whether it can be released as an e-book.
http://www.amazon.com/No-Man-Knows-My-History/dp/0679730540/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411662535&sr=1-1&keywords=no+man+knows+my+history