Reddit Reddit reviews October Surprise: America's Hostages in Iran and the Election of Ronald Reagan

We found 8 Reddit comments about October Surprise: America's Hostages in Iran and the Election of Ronald Reagan. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.

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8 Reddit comments about October Surprise: America's Hostages in Iran and the Election of Ronald Reagan:

u/IntnsRed · 10 pointsr/worldpolitics

I don't understand what you mean by "he didn't.'

But either way, Reagan wasn't just criminal, he was a literal traitor -- at least if you believe the "October Surprise" conspiracy theory (which I do).

The "October Surprise" conspiracy theory is that Reagan worked with the Iranian revolutionary gov't to keep the American hostages held hostage.

We have lots of indicators that this actually happened. Consider:

  • Jimmy Carter himself gave an interview with Playboy magazine that he had heard rumors that Reagan/Bush was working with the Iranians to keep the hostages held hostage. But Carter said he felt powerless to do anything about it for fear of being labeled an election whiner and not having enough proof.

  • George H. W. Bush (Reagan's VP and the former CIA director!) lied about him being in Paris where he supposedly met with Iranians. Both French and Soviet intelligence confirmed Bush was there.

  • One of Carter's NSC guys was so upset about the October Surprise that he wrote a book on the topic.

  • The Iranian president of that time, long after he retired from politics, gave a candid interview where he was asked about the issue. He said he was offered deals by both Carter and Reagan, and he took the deal that was best for Iran -- Reagan's deal which required him to hold the hostages until Reagan was sworn in. (The hostages themselves told stories about sitting on the plane on the runway and the plane only taking off after Reagan was sworn in.)

    Later, during Reagan's presidency, he would do repeated similar deals with the Iranians -- the basis for the Iran-Contra scandal and other deals for hostages in Lebanon.

    To me, that adds up to Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush working with a hostile foreign power to rig a US election -- i.e. being literal traitors.

    While people talk about Reagan's "landslide" victory, if Carter had freed the hostages in October the election would have been very, very different.

    Edit: Fixed typos on initials of rich people who think it's cool to give their kids 2 middle names.

    > "I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true -- but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not." -- President Ronald Reagan, 4 March 1987.
u/samfaina · 10 pointsr/TrueReddit

> Nixon personally sabotaged peace talks between Ford LBJ and Vietnam...

FTFY.

Actually, it's worse than that. Nixon worked with foreign countries to subvert the peace talks and policies of the sitting American president.

If Nixon had done this all by himself and inside the US, one could call it a person exercising his political rights.

But since Nixon worked with foreign governments to do this, thus extending the war and causing thousands more American soldiers to be killed (and who knows how many more Vietnamese -- but we don't count them!), I'd say that would likely fall into the category of outright treason.

And perhaps even more important is that Nixon's actions set the political precedent for others to do this.

The Reagan/Bush election team in 1980 worked with Iran to keep Americans held hostage by a foreign government to subvert Jimmy Carter's chances for reelection.

We know this (source, another) from not only French and then-Soviet intelligence reports of Reagan/Bush officials meeting with Iranians in France, not only from Jimmy Carter himself saying he know of such "rumors" as president but felt it was best to let history sort the issue out, not only from Carter's NSC aide Gary Sick and his book October Surprise, but from the now-retired former president of Iran who said that both Carter and Reagan/Bush were offering Iran deals to release the hostages and that he took the deal he thought was best for Iran: the deal offered by the Reagan/Bush election team.

u/oafishbliss · 8 pointsr/movies

> Strong rumours have circulated that while Carter negotiated the release of the hostages. A representative for the Republican party convinced the Iranians that they would give them a better deal if they delayed their release till after the election

It's actually much more than just strong rumors. A few points:

  • Carter's NSC guru Gary Sick has written a book on the so-called "October Surprise" election of 1980.

  • French and then-Soviet intelligence put members of the Reagan/Bush election team in Paris meeting with Iranian officials (remember Bush was the former CIA director post-Vietnam, at a time when the CIA was under fire; Bush gained a great deal of loyalty from the CIA for his defense of the criminal agency).

  • Former president Jimmy Carter has publicly said that he heard rumors that Reagan/Bush were working to torpedo a Carter deal to free the US diplomats who were held hostage.

  • The (now-long-since-retired and out of politics) Iranian president of that time gave an interview where he bluntly said he was offered deals by both Carter and Reagan/Bush, with Carter wanting the hostages freed, and Bush/Reagan wanting the hostages kept prisoner until after the election. The Iranian president said he took the deal that was best for Iran -- Reagan/Bush's deal. The hostages were released literally minutes after Reagan/Bush was sworn into office (and only days later a plane load of US-made weapons and spare parts in route to Iran crashed in the Middle East).

    This is one of those issues in US history where there is no "smoking gun". But to me it's a no-brainer what happened: Like Nixon in an earlier election who worked with a foreign power to undermine a sitting American president, the Reagan/Bush election team committed outright treason in working to keep American diplomats held hostage by a foreign power.

    > "I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true -- but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not." -- President Ronald Reagan, 4 March 1987.
u/the_okkvlt · 6 pointsr/pics

Not much of a conspiracy theory when there's a fair bit of evidence pointing to a whole lot of shadyness. Frontline did a whole piece on it, and there's been a few credible books written on it. It's a conspiracy in line with the conspiracy theory that the Russians colluded with the RNC and Trump campaign for the presidential election.

u/carrierfive · 5 pointsr/Marijuana

A classic Carlin rant, but the "fuck everybody" line at the bottom sums up how shallow it is.

If that's true, then the question to me would become how/why did those noble-minded baby boomers who broke so many barriers, did so much good, stopped the Vietnam War (along with a couple million dead Vietnamese!) turn into selfish semi-rightists?

And to me, there's 2 big factors in that: (1) the mass media, owned by the rich and constantly preaching capitalism and "greed is good," and (2) Reagan's seizure of power in the 1980 "October Surprise" presidential election.

Those 2 factors today are still impacting us.

u/trot-trot · 2 pointsr/ConspiracyII
  1. (a) Source Of The Submitted Link

    * "Daniel Sheehan 2019: The Trajectory of Justice" by Romero Institute: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVza7sesLJh5EM3OE4417e3yiTyndRR6a

    * Syllabus for "The Trajectory of Justice in America: 2019" by Daniel P. Sheehan: https://danielpsheehan.com/tja2019/

    Source for #1a: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/9tjr5w/american_exceptionalism_when_others_do_it/e8wq72m

    Via: "A Closer Look At The Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) Phenomenon" at https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/drcdbmo

    (b) In "CONCLUSIONS" (page 208) read from page 226 (start at "In the end, it is irrelevant whether") to page 228 in the book titled "October Surprise: America's Hostages in Iran and the Election of Ronald Reagan" by Gary Sick, published in 1991: https://www.amazon.com/October-Surprise-Americas-Hostages-Election/dp/0812919890 or http://web.archive.org/web/20160630192700/hongpong.com/archives/2008/07/23/iran-contra-cliffs-notes-hostage-crises-psyops-and-gop-perception-management-see


    (d) Oil, United States of America (USA), Kuwait, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, And Operation Desert Storm: "The Trajectory of Justice in America: 2019" by Daniel P. Sheehan

    Start at 11:30 (11 minutes and 30 seconds), 4 April 2019, "From Desert Storm to Donald Trump: Daniel Sheehan 2019 Class #2": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t4fkW9hhhA&list=PLVza7sesLJh5EM3OE4417e3yiTyndRR6a&index=3&t=0s

    Start at 1:12:58 (1 hour and 12 minutes and 58 seconds), 23 April 2019, "What Mueller Missed — The Narrative No One Is Talking About: Daniel Sheehan 2019 Class #7" -- see #1e: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcCjrNiRjdo&list=PLVza7sesLJh5EM3OE4417e3yiTyndRR6a&index=8&t=0s

    (e) Information for Class #7, 23 April 2019

    - "CHAPTER SIX : THE MAYFLOWER HOTEL : April 2016" in the book "Proof of Collusion: How Trump Betrayed America" by Seth Abramson, published in 2018: https://books.google.com/books?id=L6B2DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&ots=p46T2iZ68Z

    - "The Global Oil Rush : Mini Teaser: Given rising demand and dwindling supplies, consuming nations should look south and east." by Robert C. McFarlane ("Bud"), published on 1 June 2006: https://nationalinterest.org/print/article/the-global-oil-rush-302 (page 1 of 2), https://nationalinterest.org/article/the-global-oil-rush-302/page/0/1 (page 2 of 2)

    See also: https://nationalinterest.org/commentary/taking-tnis-advice-the-global-oil-rush-1500 (9 March 2007, "Taking TNI's Advice: The Global Oil Rush : In the Summer 2006 issue of The National Interest, former National Security Advisor Robert C. McFarlane addressed Brazil’s potential contribution to American energy independence.")

  2. (a) Read

    https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/bndbsz/the_christian_nation_fiction_then_and_now_by/en4jss6

    (b) Read

    https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/9tjr5w/american_exceptionalism_when_others_do_it/e8wq72m

    (c) Read

    "In trade wars of 200 years ago, the pirates were Americans" by Paul Wiseman, published on 28 March 2019: https://apnews.com/b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88dc53

    Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/9tjr5w/american_exceptionalism_when_others_do_it/e8wq72m

    (d) Read

    https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/asnmu1/washingtons_paralysis_requires_a_constitutional/egvet2g

    Source: "A Closer Look At The Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) Phenomenon" at https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/drcdbmo

    (e) Read

    "The US: An 'Empire in Retreat' : In his new book, Victor Bulmer-Thomas argues that the US needs to accept its imperial decline and reinvent itself" by Paul Hockenos, published on 6 May 2019: https://www.ips-journal.eu/regions/north-america/article/show/the-us-an-empire-in-retreat-3435/

    Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/9tjr5w/american_exceptionalism_when_others_do_it/e8wq72m

    or

    http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/9tjr5w/american_exceptionalism_when_others_do_it/e8wq72m

  3. (a) The National Press Club, 18 October 2016, Bradley C. Birkenfeld "talked about his book, Lucifer's Banker: The Untold Story of How I Destroyed Swiss Bank Secrecy, about exposing efforts by Swiss bank UBS to shelter billions of dollars for American clients. Mr. Birkenfeld was a banker for UBS and informed the Justice Department and IRS about the bank's practices in 2007.": https://www.c-span.org/video/?417080-1/bradley-birkenfeld-discusses-lucifers-banker

    "'Lucifer's Banker' Book Launch Party" by The National Press Club -- the event was held on 18 October 2016 at The National Press Club in Washington, District of Columbia, United States of America: https://www.press.org/events/lucifers-banker-book-launch-party-invite-only

    (b) Read 'Supplemental For "Number 7"' -- 911, 9/11, September 11, 2001 -- (#2) at https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/dv5vibm

    Via: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/dtzhc5x))

    Source: "A Closer Look At The Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) Phenomenon" at https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/drcdbmo

    (c) Rick Wiles, host of Trunews, interviews Russian economist Dr. Tatyana Koryagina on American Freedom News in November 2001, weeks after September 11, 2001 (9/11). The interview begins at 07:35 (7 minutes and 35 seconds) and ends at 55:09 (55 minutes and 9 seconds). This interview was rebroadcast on 20 November 2008 by Rick Wiles on Trunews (trunews.com): https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/4sle68/rick_wiles_interviews_russian_economist_dr/d5a7v66

    Audio file: https://web.archive.org/web/20111016052117/www.trunews.com/Audio/11_20_08_thursday_trunews2.mp3

    Via + Much more: #2 at https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/duwoo9d

    Source: "A Closer Look At The Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) Phenomenon" at https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/drcdbmo

    or

    http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/drcdbmo

    (d) Watch and listen to the 9/11 (911) videos by Citizen Investigation Team: https://vimeo.com/cit

    Source + Much more: #2 -- 9/11, 911, September 11, 2001 -- at https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/duwoo9d

    Via: "A Closer Look At The Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) Phenomenon" at https://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/drcdbmo

    or

    http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/drcdbmo

    - Citizen Investigation Team: http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com
u/jdsmofo · 2 pointsr/politics

Or what about the allegations that Reagan and Bush negotiated with Iran to keep the American hostages until after the election against Carter?

https://www.amazon.com/October-Surprise-Americas-Hostages-Election/dp/0812919890

It has always been suspicious to me that they were released upon Reagan's inauguration. The Iran-Contra scandal was also consistent with the allegations.

Oh right, the same scandal covered up by William Barr.

u/LeaningMajority · 2 pointsr/uspolitics

> Were you alive when Reagan was president

I'm ashamed to say that I voted for him twice.

But rather than try to discredit the allegation with the emotional smear of "conspiracy theory", why not deal with the substance of the charge that Reagan colluded with a hostile foreign country to keep Americans held prisoner and to undermine the foreign policies of a sitting American president?

  • Why not address Jimmy Carter's public comments he has said about the Reagan-Bush election team talking with the Iranians?

  • Why not address the then-Soviet and French intelligence reports of the Reagan-Bush election team meeting with the Iranians in Paris?

  • Why not address the-then Iranian president's statements in interviews years after he retired from Iranian politics that he, as Iran's president, negotiated with both Carter and Reagan about hostage deals and that he took the best deal for Iran -- the Reagan-Bush offer of arms in order to keep the hostages imprisoned until Reagan took office?

    Once those issues are addressed, then you can examine other related issues, such as Bush's bogus claim about where he was when he was meeting with the Iranians in Paris, or the crashed plane of Americans weapons going to Iran immediately after Reagan was sworn in, or the details in Carter's NSC guru's book, or even Reagan's other "arms for hostages" deals that he did with the Iranians which later resulted in the "Iran-Contra Scandal"?

    > "I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true -- but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not." -- President Ronald Reagan, 4 March 1987.