Reddit reviews On Combat, The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace
We found 32 Reddit comments about On Combat, The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
Signed by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
I don't know your personal outlook on life, nor what preparations you made before you decided to carry a weapon. But I do know one thing: it is better that you are still breathing than the guy you killed.
If the guy was interested solely in money, he wouldn't have returned. He would have gotten the money and left. You saved yourself and your coworkers by doing what you did. Its an unbelievably shitty thing to have to do, but you did it for the right reasons.
You're getting therapy, keep at it. Many of my firends have gotten therapy for PTSD, and there's no shame in it. After our deployment, my best friend dove straight into a bottle and didn't come out for better part of a year. His job performance and live spiraled out of control, but he got better eventually.
That being said, your therapist may not be the best one... Don't be afraid of getting another; go to your local VFW, explain what happens to any veteran there around age 25-35 and you have better than even odds that they have a therapist to recommend, one that's used to PTSD from folks having shot at people.
Last thing I'll recommend. There's 2 book out I recommend for any servicemember before deployment, and if they have any issues with post-deployment life. Both are by Dave grossman.
On Killing Basic Premise: That killing is fundamentally destructive to the psyche, and to overcome our natural disinclination towards killing, the military has created training programs that help circumvent this and allows them to kill. This training does nothing to alleviate the PTSD killing causes. (You could skip this book, but it shows the mechanism of why you are hurting and that may help you. It has lots of stories for you to see that you're not alone, which is also helpful.
[On Combat] (http://www.amazon.com/Combat-Psychology-Physiology-Deadly-Conflict/dp/0964920549/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8) Basic Premise: If you buy everything said in 'On Killing', that killing tears at your soul and psyche, then this is a book for Soldiers and Police to minimize the hurt and pain they are going through with what society asks of them. Some of the stuff would have been good to know before you killed the guy, but lots of it can be applied now.
Keep your chin up, and know that memories will fade. You did nothing wrong and your life is more important than the man who was going to kill you.
PM me if you want to, I may not have the PhDs your therapist does, but I've got life experience and come tons cheaper comparatively.
Source: Army Officer. Deployed to Iraq in 2003. Came back and joined Reserves and went to a CSC (Combat Stress Control) unit while doing college to become an officer.
I would be happy to influence police procedure, as I am very interested in police reform. If you paid attention to the totality of the article and my response, you'd find that I'm actually on your side of enhancing police accountability and transparency.
It's important to understand that police officers are put through scenarios that produce the same perception-distorting effects as proper combat. Remember that combat can include most any kind of attack or fight, not just OIS scenarios. Can you site your resources that indicate what percentage of officers have encountered perception-distorting scenarios? I was not able to find something quickly, but you seem to know the figures with your assertation of "almost none".
A couple years ago I read this book, which I can point to as a source:
https://www.amazon.com/Combat-Psychology-Physiology-Deadly-Conflict/dp/0964920549
Google searches can give you an idea as to what those effects are (see table 1):
https://nij.gov/journals/253/pages/responses.aspx
Stressful situations hamper perception, and police go through those stressful situations.
Read Grossman's On Combat, that'll help you a lot. What happened is what's known as audio exclusion, it's very common in shootings: the gunshots will sound muffled or far away, everything happens in slow motion, sometimes guys will hear their partner's gun firing but not theirs or they won't hear the muzzle blast of their own weapon but they'll hear the shell casings hitting the pavement...humans do weird, weird shit under that kind of duress. Again, I can't recommend highly enough that you read that book and the other one called 'On Killing' that came before it.
No. You miss a simple point. Everyone is treated with suspicion because literally anyone can and has killed police officers. Therefore, officers handle all situations in ways most people would consider to be paranoid. We call it "Officer Safety" and it has saved many lives.
Everyone reacts differently after deadly force situations. Once the adrenaline subsides in a perceived deadly force situation, all sorts of autonomic responses can come into play. Some people in combat/and or police shooting incidents void their bladder without even knowing it. It is simply part of the body's natural response to critical situations. I would advise you, should you be inclined to educate yourself rather than spout uninformed, emotional responses to read 'On Combat: The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace' by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman.
I won't hold my breath though, because it looks like you'd rather make wild assumptions like 'he was a piece of shit cop' or 'he clearly knew he fucked up because he was crying.'
Or, 'he was shot because the cop was anti-gun.' I can guarantee you the massive majority of cops are pro 2A in a bigly way. But we know people are dangerous, unpredictable, and can and will kill you. So, we do our best. Sometimes we fuck up. But people like you sure as hell don't help the situation one bit.
He has a few books. In particular:
In no particular order:
The Gift of Fear
Meditations on Violence
Facing Violence
Verbal Judo
Surviving Armed Assaults
On Combat
The Little Black Book of Violence
Street E & E
I could probably come up with 10 more if I looked through my library.
Whichever system you decide on, the tactics in these books will be important. Reading them before choosing a school will help you know what to look for. Sadly, some self-defense school will teach things that are either not practical, or will have devastating legal consequences for you (like how to take a knife away from someone, then use it on them).
It really depends on the tone you're going for in your writing. If you want it to be realistic, I'd recommend checking out "Violence: a Writer's Guide" by Rory Miller. Other good sources would be "On Combat" and "On Killing"
http://www.amazon.com/Violence-A-Writers-Guide-ebook/dp/B004EYTBNA/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345912178&sr=1-1&keywords=violence+a+writer%27s+guide
http://www.amazon.com/Combat-Psychology-Physiology-Deadly-Conflict/dp/0964920549/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345912249&sr=8-1&keywords=on+combat
http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-Society/dp/0316040932/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345912264&sr=1-1&keywords=on+killing+the+psychological+cost+of+learning+to+kill+in+war+and+society
It comes from this book
The basic idea is that there are wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs. Wolves are the criminals, sheeps are civilians, and sheepdogs are police/military I think.
The sheep live happy lives and don't like having the sheepdog around, until the wolves come by. Then they beg for the sheepdog to save them.
Personally, I think it's really dumb. But that's where it comes from.
> IMHO that and not enough training is contributes to so much inaccuracy.
I was in the NYPD academy in the early 2000s. I don't know about the Glock trigger because I was issued a Sig Sauer P226k....but I can tell you, scarily, that it's pretty damn easy to "qualify" to department standards.
That and we studied the Diallo shooting in class. While it was clearly a bad shooting (meaning not justified) there were two key elements to the controversial "41 shots". The first...and really the worst element was that one officer had his finger on the trigger while he was moving forward (poor trigger discipline)....tripped and fell. The other officers simultaneously hear the shot, see the officer fall and believed that he was shot...so they returned fire. The reason they fired 41 shots...was because we were told that at the time, the procedure was not "double-tap and reassess"...but rather fire until the threat is neutralized...and if you run out, perform a combat reload.
Now I am not a tactician, not a forensic expert, not a criminologist....or anything closely resembling any of those things. I'm not even a police officer (I resigned from the academy). I only know what I was taught while I was there (rather, what I can remember from what I was taught) and the bit I've read on the physiology of the brain during a combat situation. On Combat by Dave Grossman is an excellent read.
Now I want to stress that I'm not not making moral commentary on the shooting itself....other than to say it was not a justified shooting. But if you do some reading on the subject (since most of us lack combat experience) is that you can understand why things happen the way they do. I really do suggest that people read that book. That one and The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker.
Very, very similar book, with lots of identical sections. I personally prefer Facing Violence to Meditations on Violence because it deals more thoroughly with legal issues, but either is great.
I found "On Combat" to be insightful for understanding the effect of combat on people.
Edit: spelling and formatting
I won't push any guns on you(look at my flair if you want to know what I carry.) Do not walk into a shop and just buy a gun. Go to a range and rent guns, go with a friend that owns guns, ask everybody you can what their opinion on their guns are. If at any time someone seems emotional while bashing a brand then stop listening to them. I don't buy Glock because they don't feel right in my hand, but it is still one of the most popular guns because it is reliable. Find what works for you and then buy.
Hickok45 - He is great. He uses a wide variety of guns and ammo and he has a few episodes where he compares guns.
Legal Carry
Massad Ayoob - One of if not the best in the business. Read anything and everything you can find from him.
Shoot to Live(1/8)
Judicious use of Force(1/2)
Make the time to watch these videos and the rest in each series. These are mobile YouTube links if they don't work for you I will edit them when I get to a computer.
Lt. Col. Dave Grossman Get his books and read them.
On Combat
On Killing
Storage Where is your gun going to be when not in its holster? All of my pistols are in a safe.
Home Defense Handguns aren't the best for home defense because of the possibility of shooting friendlies and bystanders through walls. Think about shotguns for that.
Holster and Placement I have a Crossbreed Supertuck for my .45 and a Galco basic ankle holster for my .380. If you know people that own and carry you could ask them if you can try their holster/gun combo around their house(unloaded.) At ranges or shops ask what others use and why. There are multiple places you can carry a gun(shoulder, pocket, ankle, hip.) The hip has the most variety because you have your whole waist for placement as well as looking at inside the waistband(IWB) and outside the waistband(OWB.)Look them up and practice drawing from those areas. What feels more natural? Sidenote: If you carry in your pocket then buy a pocket holster. It blocks the trigger guard so nothing(pens or keys) pulls the trigger while its in your pocket.
Ammo Certain guns can shoot any brand others can not. Buy a box of each brand in the caliber you end up getting. Do some research first! Some brands straight up suck. Pick out the weeds and try what's left. While practicing use basic ball ammo. When carrying you should be using hollow points. These will add stopping power and help lessen the chance of over penetration.
Laws Look up your local laws. Learn them and memorize them. Ignorance is not an excuse and you will get charged for breaking laws. Find a local attorney that does cases involving guns(self defense or accidental discharge.) You don't need to put them on retainer but get their card so if something ever happens you can call a lawyer that knows what they are doing.
As a serious answer: They hold it that way not to shoot, but to point and look threatening. Generally, having a higher position and forcing someone else to look up at you gives you psychological leverage over someone else. Gives you an aura of authority and dominance. Makes you appear bigger and more threatening and the other person is more likely to back down. So lets assume your gangbanger is a typical human being who isn't actually interested in killing anyone and would rather make a display of animal dominance and just get what he wants. This is how most every animal on the planet deals with members of it's own species and humans by and large are no exception to that rule. So you pick up your threatening weapon and you point it at someone in a way which causes them to have to look up to view the threat, and give yourself a more dominant appearance. Take your standard handgun, hold it maybe 6 inches above your head, and now turn it so your barrel points at your imaginary victim. You'll notice it's hard to do while maintaining a normal vertical grip. So you turn your wrist to a more natural angle to flex and voila! Sideways gangbanger grip.
If you watch humans do this in the wild, you'll notice that's exactly what they're doing. They're trying to be intimidating. They're pointing with their weapons. Trying to appear threatening. Often the gun will be above their head rather than in line with their eyes. If it is more level with their eyes, they're often turned away from their opponent, trying to put at much perceived distance between them and the gun, using it as a psychological shield to hide behind. It's the same grip for the same purpose, they're just being scared young men facing lethal violence at that point and stretching their arms out further from them rather than holding it higher as they normally would.
If you see some of the lesser trained soldiers in say, parts of Africa holding their AKs sideways and above their head, it's both a function of dominance, and fear. They're trying to look and sound scary with their guns and hope the enemy runs away rather than fights back. Often they're be behind some piece of cover and shoot over it without looking. Holding your gun above your head makes a sideways grip more comfortable and secure feeling hold on your weapon. Since they're either unaware of what sights are for (some are) or too scared out of their minds to care, the grip makes sense to them. It's all primal responses to fear and violence.
Source: Soldier who has a little understanding into the minds of untrained combatants facing violence. Col. Grossman is a good read on the subject.
No book will prepare you for law enforcement, it has to be touched, smelled, heard, and seen. If you're already a cop then the best thing you can do to be better is to be a well rounded human being and books can help with that.
Here's the recommended reading from some of the prior threads I was able to find in the sub.
I've read a good portion of the above listed. I highly recommend Emotional Survival and going to see one of Gilmartin's talks if he's in your area. Below are a few of my personal suggestions.
There's a book called "On Combat" concerning combat stress. In the book the author goes very in-depth about how common it is to actually shit your pants in gunfights. Having been shot at (but retaining my bowels), I can easily understand how it happens. I'm an adrenaline sport guy, but that immediate, unexpected dose of terror is completely different high than what I've gotten elsewhere. There's a reason lots of combat vets have a love/hate relationship with firefights.
In Achilles in Vietnam: Combat Trauma and the undoing of moral character, Dr. Jonathan Shay examines the additional situational elements that are predictors of the likelihood an individual will develop PTSD.
LtCol Grossman has also written on this subject in On Combat and On Killing.
Shared experience, supportive debriefing, command climate, fatigue level, witness to/participation in crimes or atrocities, cover-ups, moral conflict, relationship to wounded/killed... all of these things shape the experience.
A well-trained warrior may have no regrets or disturbances at having killed numerous enemy troops or even losing comrades if he was well cared for and supported by his command and unit.
But an under-prepared & overly fatigued warrior who saw injured children, or was involved in actions that terrorized civilians, while a member of an abusive command and separated from his buddies may experience moderate to even severe PTSD.
There is much more to PTSD than the volume of fire to which one was exposed or the MOS and duty assignment that may be reflected in paper records.
On Combat, by David Grossman. All about the psychological and physiological affects of combat. Great read for anyone who's just going in (like me).
There's a quote in On Combat about a police officer who'd been training gun disarms with his wife for years, and when he needed to use it, he disarmed the bad guy, and then handed the gun back to him. Fortunately, the officer's partner was around and managed to shoot the bad guy before he got off a shot himself, but still, a man died because of bad training routines.
Never, ever count shots. You pull the trigger until you see results that mean you're no longer in danger. That could mean one shot or three mag reloads. Same thing.
In the past, police were taught to shoot X string of fire, watch for results, then continue if necessary. This resulted in a lot of officers getting injured or killed when the shots didn't have the intended effect in enough time, even when the officers had good hits on the target. A human body can take a lot of damage in certain situations and keep functioning long enough to be dangerous.
Training has been revised over the years to an indefinite "shoot to stop the threat". That means whatever it takes. You continue to do work until the threat is done being a threat.
If you're interested in the subject, start with the FBI memo Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness
On Combat is a great resource as well.
I'm not entirely sure if this is something you're looking for, but Lt. Col. Dave Grossman is a psychologist and a veteran who has specialized in researching what makes shooters tick. His two (the only ones I'm aware of at this moment ... both great reads) works are titled On Killing and On Combat.
If anything they may be able to point you in the right direction of more research and studies that have already been conducted.
On Combat by Dave Grossman is an amazing book. It's about what (likely) goes on in your mind, and how your body will (likely) react, in a life-or-death situation. As Grossman puts it "Forewarned is forearmed." People need to know this.
Mindfulness by Ellen Langer is about life on autopilot. How it happens and how we can live to avoid falling into routines and such. People need to know this.
Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely is clever stuff.
If you haven't already, please read this. It may help you understand how scenarios like this affect you physically, psychologically, spiritually, and socially.
And thank you for making the right decision. It was your responsibility to make the right decision at the time with the facts as they were, and you did. It was never your responsibility to keep everyone in your jurisdiction safe; that would simply be unreasonable.
Like say the US Marine Corps' Professional Reading List? I think all branches have reading lists.
One's I've actually read::
I'm particularly fond of The Village by Bing West.
There's Power To The Edge which is more modern
Also yes, Sun Tzu's The Art of War, also Nicolo Machiavelli's Art of War, On War by Clausewitz, On Combat by Grossman even though I have some issues with it.
Hope this helps.
EDIT: I can't believe I forgot The Book of Five Rings by Musashi
On Combat, The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace, there's a good starting point.
> Rex Grossman wrote of the
Rex Grossman did no such thing.
You're referring to LtCol Dave Grossman's book "On Killing"
I recommend reading the book "On Combat, The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace". It covers how soldiers who are not physically injured are affected long term by actions taken in combat. The author presents his case pretty well.
One of the relevant points is that Soldiers and Marines reframe how they think about the things they did. So you get a choice. The phrase
>"shot the fuck out of the aggressive red Toyota that was riding way too low to not be a VBIED so my battle buddies don't get blown the fuck up"
can either become
>"Shot an incent kid forced by fuckheads to commit suicide so his family doesn't get executed"
or it can become
>"Lead injections to stop bad things from happening. Side effects may include bleeding and death."
One of those is more likely to cause night terrors.
In short, go fuck yourself.
Never in any military, but these are some that I've read that I enjoyed.
On Combat and On Killing by Dave Grossman.
Something a bit more fun. the SAS survival handbook.
I've heard that some military studies include the book of Joshua in the Bible.
Oh great, another scumbag piece of shit we have to watch out for...
that being said, kick some ass in the Academy and welcome to the Family. :-)
This and This are absolutely great reads. The first one would be more for close family (like a GF or wife) but is still very good otherwise.
Again, congrats and go kick some ass.
Sure thing. If you like that philosophy, if you haven't read it, I'd pick up this version of Sun Tzu's The Art of War. The commentary is very interesting, and it has other works other than Sun Tzu as well. I enjoy it because it compares The Art of War it to the Tao Te Ching (as well as other similar documents), and the author gives an interesting interpretation of the piece that you don't get from the document alone. Another good one is On Combat, The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace. The title describes the book, but if you have any loved ones who have been in the military, or you're just interested in physical conflict, this is a good read as well.
Army field artillery, enlisted and officer, for 34 years. Welcome home, brother. Infantry was some of my favorite customers ... always so appreciative.
These books have helped me understand the process.
https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-Society/dp/0316040932
https://www.amazon.com/Combat-Psychology-Physiology-Deadly-Conflict/dp/0964920549
If you are into reading books, this book is a good read concerning the mental effects of having to fire your weapon.
I haven't studied in this particular area extensively enough to call myself an authority.
I will say, however, that On Combat: The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace would be an excellent starting point for you. It's not history. It's psychology. The author, Dave Grossman, says that the fear of death is the "universal phobia." I think that much of his theory could be applied to medieval battles.
You are most definitely not alone. I read a book recently called "On Combat" by LTC Grossman, it help me understand some of the reasons I feel the way I do since I've been home. With a book title like that I thought it might dredge up some shit I've been trying to deal with, but it helped me learn how to heal a little.
We will never be cured of the wars that we saw, but maybe we can heal our wounds into scars that we can carry with us.
Good luck to you on your path and remember that it is going to be ok.
http://www.amazon.com/Combat-Psychology-Physiology-Deadly-Conflict/dp/0964920549/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398483476&sr=8-1&keywords=on+combat