Reddit reviews Passionate Marriage: Keeping Love and Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships
We found 19 Reddit comments about Passionate Marriage: Keeping Love and Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
Great product!
You seem really frustrated and I feel like I actually have some useful information to offer, so I'm sorry if this feels obnoxious, but hopefully you'll gain something from it.
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I'm the low libido one in my relationship. I had a lot of "serious talks" with my husband about it over the years. He wants more. I want to want more, but don't know how. I convince myself I'll make it happen. Do all kinds of things like get sexy underwear and wear them daily so I'm reminded to think about sex. We have subtle signals for "I want to have sex today" so we don't have to tell each other "Want some sex?" shit like that. It bothers me when my husband tries to initiate while I'm trying to take care of things that have to be done. I ask him to stop. Etc. and so on.
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The issue was that we were misidentifying the problems involved. Yeah, all that stuff was true, but it wasn't *the* issue. I needed therapy. Like, a shit ton of it. I have a history of sexual trauma and it has my relationship with sex all fucked up. Besides that, I've been with my husband for ~15 years and all the habits and resentment and fear we have with each other around sex have been building and reinforcing themselves in cycles for that whole time. So trying to come up with these small solutions when the problems were much deeper, ingrained emotional shit, made no real difference, and we were stuck in our useless, frustrating cycles.
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I'm not saying your husband has sexual trauma. He might, he might not. He may be ace or depressed like another commenter said, but it's a big assumption to say it has to be one of those. It may just be that he has low libido. But if he really wants to change and it's not working, it's possible there's a deeper issue you guys are missing. And if you keep trying to solve the small problems, you'll never get to the big ones. I also really recommend the book Passionate Marriage for both of you. It's a little self-congratulatory, but it has some good ideas that can really change the way you think about your interactions with your husband, and maybe break some of those frustrating cycles. Another book that really helped me was Come As You Are, which is geared towards women but includes science that applies to men as well, and I think would help any low-libido partner get a handle on what's happening with their sex drive.
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I wish you luck, happiness, and satisfying sex.
If you decide to stick it out any longer, see if he will read Passionate Marriage by Schnarch (despite the title, it assigns no moral weight to the actual institution of marriage). It does a really good job dismantling the typical "sex-positive" approaches, while still being deeply committed to the notion that sex is worth salvaging even in imperfect relationships.
Maybe talk sex after reading a chapter of the book, or something, to avoid the talking-sex-only-to-fail-at-sex phenomenon.
On the other hand, in my personal opinion, three years is pretty easy to call it quits on. Tell him to get his shit together (it will sound rude and bitchy even to your own ears, but that's just the internalized misogyny talking) or to get out. If he doesn't enjoy getting you turned on and making sex enjoyable for you, then he doesn't enjoy having sex with you. That's the whole point of sex with a partner.
What things are you learning from you sex therapist?
A quick way to learn what is normal/healthy sex is by reading a crap load of books about it. I recommend Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch PhD. He talks about how we stress over things, and also the different reasons for sex (to be connected through intercourse and oral, or simply fucking for the sake of fucking).
Game changer
So this reading suggestion is from the sidebar.
And also try Mating in Captivity
Relationships will always have ups and downs, but no, they don't have to go downhill.
If you have escaped from your own N, then you understand how hard it is to see what's happening as abuse when you haven't woken up yet.
Your husband has been conditioned (and we all were by our Ns) to see her behavior as normal. As such, you can't talk your husband into seeing his mom as an N. He will have to come to that understanding in his own time, from him doing his own work, and it may take some kind of precipitating event for him to get there. This means that you railing against his mother is only going to pit you against her. And if he has not stood up for you yet when she has verbally abused you in front of him, then I would move forward expecting that he will continue to be a bystander.
Ideally your husband would intervene on your behalf because she's his mother, not yours. But if he won't, then you have to do it for yourself. Especially for your kids. Continuing to be around her will only model for them that it's okay for people to be verbally abused. So you will need to set those boundaries and expect to enforce them yourself.
Interestingly, standing your ground about how you should be treated and what your kids should be exposed to may result in the outcome you seek -- that your husband eventually sees his mother as the toxic person she is.
There is a really good book called Passionate Marriage that talks about partners exerting influence over each other -- not by trying to control your partner's behavior, but by making changes to yourself. Rather than continuing in the same old pattern, one partner responding differently forces the other partner to pay attention to the situation in a new way, and, over time, can result in introspection and change in that person.
For example -- you have decided that your kids should not be exposed to your mother-in-law anymore. You could try to argue to your husband about why this makes sense (re: all of what you posted), or you could decide that you will stop trying to convince him and instead set some boundaries that reflect your values (e.g. that your kids should have a healthy environment). Like /u/feverhead_coldhands said, this may evoke a variety of potential reactions from your husband. But if you stick with it, you get what you need (for both you and your kids, which is the primary aim here), but there is a secondary effect where your husband is now in a new position -- that of having to navigate his mother when she experiences boundary-setting.
There is no way to predict how this will go. Depending on how bad your husband's FLEAs are, he may end up siding with her. That would suck, but I have to be honest that it is a possible outcome. But he could also eventually start to internalize the message you are sending with your boundary -- that you and your kids deserve to be treated with respect. He may start questioning whether he's missing something re: his mom, if you have taken such (seemingly) drastic action. It may make him think.
This is a long-term process with no guarantees that your husband will eventually agree with you or even understand your reasoning. But regardless of the outcome with your husband, you will have done what you need to do to take care of yourself and your kids, and to model self-respect for them.
Best wishes with this situation. I can totally understand where you are coming from. The death-by-a-thousand-criticisms is real, but its toxicity can be so hard to explain.
I utterly agree with this comment.
I would say that 20% of the comments in here are from deeply bitter people (curiously almost all the really bitter people are male). When I see someone's comments starting to talk about marriage as a "contact", how their partner is failing in their contractual obligations and you should dump their sorry ass I think "with that kind of self-entitled attitude I wouldn't have sex with you either".
A book I've seen mentioned in here is the The Four Agreements -- or The Fifth Agreement for what amounts to a rehash in less time. Once I was able to look past the new-age vibe, I found it a really helpful reminder that you've never really known another person's experience and that LL partners have just as much right to live their life as you do. Sure there are some flat out selfish people about, but most LL partners are just trying to cope with what life has dealt them -- just as you are.
The other book I found helpful was Passionate Marriage. This is not going to be applicable in everyone's situation, but helped me in a big way to not take my partner's behaviour personally and to understand the emotional dynamic that was at play in my relationship.
Check out Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch. Also read up on limerence. You're doing the right thing by going no contact. Limerence is a neuro-chemical drug that can be very addictive in the right personality. The right personality is someone who lacks true meaning and direction in their life and turns to addictive behaviors or substances to fill the hole in their soul. So this has less to do probably with your relationship that it does about you. You need to address what's missing in your character and pursue meaning in your life. This in itself will improve your relationship with your wife. Good luck to you.
I would also caution you about having this conversation in person with your LO (limerent object). That is very dangerous. If you're going to do it face to face, I would do it in a very public place. I would also recommend that you consider letting your wife know. Secretiveness is a big function of fueling limerence. Attraction is a normal part of life and doesn't go away when we get married. Limerence is a bug in the attraction system. Attraction is not your problem. Limerence is.
For me personally, a lot of the reason infertility was and has been so difficult, is because of the emotional neglect I experienced as a child. While I had come a long, long way emotionally since I've been an adult, I still hadn't yet mastered how to process and deal with my emotions. In a way that sounds simple, but for me it wasn't at all obvious or easy to figure out, even though I had spent years trying to resolve various past traumas, thinking patterns, behaviors, etc.
Infertility, compounded with other issues, pushed me to the brink, and along with learning about new (to me) therapies and actually find a good therapist who I respect and trust, I was able to come to a turning point in how infertility was affecting me. For me it wasn't "just" the infertility, it was related to many areas and previous past traumas in my life. It was related to feeling completely alone and isolated as a child and teen, when I had zero emotional support or connection with my family. Deep down I feel as if I have no family. Based on my beliefs about what a parent should be, I have no parents.
It's amazing and wonderful to think that you can just create your own family, and give your children the things you were never given (emotional connection), but when that chance is taken away from you, you no longer have that opportunity to heal the past in the present, you no longer have the opportunity to have what you always wanted deep down: emotional intimacy, a (real) family, etc.
I don't know if any of that will resonate with you, but if you're interested, the way I made the most progress was by reading the books:
This book was the beginning of our DB recovery. It is honestly unbelievable, along with "No more Mr Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. These two books, I'm telling you...! The titles are cheesy as hell, but the content is genius. The first deals with the underlying psychological reasons for DBs, basically a lack of "differentiation" which leads to an unhealthy network of feeling pressure, obligation, withdrawing etc... By moving to the spare room and feeling like yourself again, you have done a huge step towards differentiation. I think the further details in this book might be of great value for you. And the other book is along similar lines, but while the first is more focused on couples altogether, the latter focuses more on men, and it's brilliant. I have learned from both so, so much. Plus, they are well written and entertaining to read. I go back to them regularly to really engrain the message in my mind and break my unhealthy patterns.
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There's a book I haven't read yet and that is more focused on women, and is mentioned regularly here because apparently it is fantastic, it is called "come as you are". It seems to deal with different female arousal patterns which might be useful to know with regard to a woman with a LL. It seems to be about "how to learn what hinders your arousal and what accelerates it", basically, but I think it is more than that.
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Passionate-Marriage-Intimacy-Committed-Relationships/dp/0393334279/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=passionate+marriage&qid=1556824796&s=gateway&sr=8-1
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339/ref=sr_1_1?crid=10WF0A3U0ZLES&keywords=no+more+mr+nice+guy&qid=1556824853&s=gateway&sprefix=no+more+m%2Caps%2C246&sr=8-1
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Come-You-Are-surprising-transform/dp/1925228010/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1B16J31SVFQXN&keywords=come+as+you+are+emily+nagoski&qid=1556824888&s=gateway&sprefix=come+as+you+are%2Caps%2C202&sr=8-1
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This one is mentioned a lot as well, again focusing on female sexuality:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/She-Comes-First-Thinking-Pleasuring-ebook/dp/B000FC1PRK/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=she+comes+first&qid=1556824926&s=gateway&sr=8-1
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Sorry, this comment is massive, lol. :-)
The first book has honestly enduced our DB recovery, that is not said too much. The second - where to begin. It goes even back to unhealthy patterns that one learned from one's parents and then carries into the relationship and such. Very good.
In case anyone ends up here looking for information on how boundaries work in a relationship, these books are very informative:
As you have children I'd recommend counseling first. Here's some reading they will likey recommend. If indeed there are irreconcilable differences and it is causing animosity between you and your spouse it divorce may be better for the children.
My parents divorced when I was young, despite them hating each other because they weren't together I never saw them fight. I'd say that was far better than a lot of my friends who's parents were nasty to each other.
The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country's Foremost Relationship Expert https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00N6PEQV0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_IV0sDb1YP0DMC
Passionate Marriage: Keeping Love and Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships https://smile.amazon.com/dp/0393334279/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_GX0sDbHP11MQE
Is this the passionate marriage book? here?
Thank you. It's hard to give a full picture of our relationship, personalities and relationship dynamics in forum like this. Things are always more complex - or at least seem that way from the inside. We both have our issues and histories to work through.
Dan Savage is at the top of my list for sex/relationship advice and I've read pretty much everything he's written or recorded. I actually made my wife listen to about a days worth of pod casts on a long road trip we took several years ago. Listening to it shocked her out of some of her complacency a little bit.
His typical advice in a situation like this would probably be one (or more) of the following:
There is a great author, Dr. David Schnarch. He is a sex/relationship therapist and wrote Passionate Marriage and the more accessible Intimacy & Desire.
He spends a lot of time talking about how people in relationships will naturally get into gridlocks - there will always be someone who wants 'X' while their partner really doesn't want 'X'. He describes this as a crucible. This is a place where personal and inter-personal growth happens trying to work through this. People who are very co-dependent often get stuck and aren't strong enough within themselves (able to "hold onto themselves") to break the gridlock. Eventually, one of the people will get so uncomfortable with the status-quo that forcing the issue to some kind of resolution is less painful than staying in it.
He also talks about that people who enter into long term relationships are at about the same level of emotional development. If one person start to get ahead of the other in advancing themselves, it puts a strain on the other and the relationship. At this point it will either eventually resolve itself through breakup if they can't handle it or it's too much, or personal growth for them or remain mired in the gridlock.
I don't think I'm at a tipping point yet where I can force an issue like this into any one direction.
https://www.amazon.com/Passionate-Marriage-Intimacy-Committed-Relationships/dp/0393334279/ref=sr_1_3?gclid=CjwKCAiAh5_uBRA5EiwASW3IagQz_NMqwYYImXHlcQWInDRqnRg48T18-8p9cUKL0pPwWKzEH0OR6BoCB7EQAvD_BwE&hvadid=174232210495&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9003022&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=3618508962192455158&hvtargid=kwd-2744782865&hydadcr=24630_9648900&keywords=passionate+marriage+book&qid=1573384734&sr=8-3
Your problem is SOOO common. The tired, low energy situation can be very real. And yet have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.
You do not want to look at the backside of decades and say this is my life? I would seek therapy NOW, not wait until you are ready to walk out the door. Unless you are ready to walk out the door. Either way, face this. No matter what the thing looks like, face it. There are two many people who live in sexual poverty. I could write a book on what I think the cultural influences to this are. But that won't help YOU.
We are already talking about making it a regular event. We have kids, so we needed to get a bit more organized on arranging that, but man, it was worth it! We also used one of those giant pickle jars to put any extra cash we had into. Called it the "MFC Fund" and that added to the excitement and made it much easier to save.
Ok, if you're serious about a good book, I would HIGHLY recommend Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch (https://www.amazon.com/Passionate-Marriage-Intimacy-Committed-Relationships/dp/0393334279/). I would not hesitate to say it's one of my top 5 best books I've read. It's is not for the faint of heart and can be a slower read since it's pretty deep, but I think that's a good thing. It's not a book to just blast through and check the box. It's as much about working on yourself, personally, than anything else. The more you can be the authentic "you" (and likewise with your partner), the more intimacy will be in your relationship, the more mind-blowing sex you'll have.
We both read it at the same time, which was a great thing because it got us both on the same page. I always thought I was the adventurous one in bed, but this book lit a sexy fire under my wife and helped her to embrace a side of her that she had always been afraid or ashamed of. Actually, it did that for both of us. Helped to normalize what we think and fantasize about and gave us language to talk about it. I could go on forever. TLDR...definitely read that book!
(and if you can't ask for book recommendations on r/sex, something is wrong.)
Done. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0393334279/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_awdb_bPJvzbE0T1ZZZ
To be a more effective gardener, apply science: 7 principals for making marriage work.
And if you are having kids, you better read this, too.
And if you want better sex, there's Passionate Marriage.
> "Passionate Marriage"
Which book is this exactly? And is there an audiobook version?
I think I found it here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0393334279/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_awdb_bPJvzbE0T1ZZZ
But there is also (same author, very similar title):
https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Passionate-Marriage-Fulfillment-Relationships/dp/B00PUROQ2Q
audible.com seems to only have the 2nd one. but this seems to be the first one (right?) http://passionatemarriage.com/Passionate_Marriage_mp3