Reddit reviews Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery

I am borrowing some of my knowledge of the Enneagram Type 5, which correlate well with INTPs, though not all INTPs will fit with Fives. Still, the correlation is strong.

http://tap3x.net/EMBTI/charts.html#CHART3A

A healthy INTP/Five will like to master something. When he starts to do this, he will gain confidence, perhaps finding his niche, becoming focused and innovative. This fuels his basic desire to be capable and competent, to have something to attribute, while becoming observant and perceptive. Self-actualization will occur when he let go of a particular self image and realize he is separate from the environment. From this he will start participating and potentially become a visionary.

The INTP/Five basic fear is that of being helpless, useless, and incapable. His secondary fear is his perceptions are insufficient to give him direction. When he fears he has nothing to contribute, or is unprepared, he begins his fall.

The 'defense mechanism' is to retreat into his mind. But when others start demanding more, his inner world will start to feel threatened. He starts to shut out outside invasions by retreating further. When others starts to question his niche or competency, he wants to scare off such individuals. Then he starts to fear he will never find his place in this world or with other people.

Now the unhealthy aspects begins. He wants to start cutting off connections to the rest of the world, as the world close in on him. He tries to fend them off, but fear due to incompetency that he can't. So he seeks to leave reality, to break away. Meanwhile he realize his basic fear is now realized.

As such, unhealthy INTPs/Fives tend to be schizoid, avoidant, or they might develop schizotypical traits thinking they can by his 'niche'. Eccentric at best, suicidal (to escape) at worst.

Source: http://www.amazon.com/Personality-Types-Using-Enneagram-Self-Discovery/dp/0395798671/

List of personality disorders: http://ptypes.com/overviews.html

Personally my preferred first book on enneagram:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0395798671/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687502&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0970382405&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0YZZ2AN1MGNJAGWWYWQX

The only downside is it can come off as having a somewhat negative focus on the pathological sides of the types, with the healthier states seeming very idealized. Nonetheless invaluable in my opinion.

This was where I got it from. Good read, VERY descriptive explanations. He gives information on childhood experiences that can promote a specific enneagram. He also gives very detailed patterns of behavior you could expect in just about every mood you could think of. In the back, there are the "cheat sheets;" they are a lot more complex than the simplification above.

you sound like an enneagram type 5 - which i identify with as well.

i have personally found the enneagram theory to be extremely helpful in understanding/accepting my introversion, as well as others' differences in this area.

this book is the most approachable; this one was the first one i read, followed by this one.

while the theory is often dismissed as being some sort of astrology or numerology it really has nothing to do with anything esoteric and is purely observational (though some authors add various misinterpretations, including 'spiritual' ones which i typically find less than useful).

I've bought a lot of time by studying different personalities. The most credible system and the one that seems to be most true and the most developed seems to be the Enneagram system. I only trust books written by the creators Dr. Riso And Hudson. I pretty much have gained all of my knowledge from one book. I have read other books with the same system and they seem to miss by a long shot. It has helped me understand others to a certain degree and at times I can kind of morph other qualities from different personalities with some success. I have learned what might annoy or threaten others and it has buffered them from some of my awkwardness that I might not have recognized before. I also have developed what people look like from different personalities and can tell someone's personality simply by appearance for the most part. I taught my daughter about personality traits after understanding this like the back of my hand just by drawing pictures of people with these different personalities. The way to gain a quick interest is to identify your own personality and read about it to see how close it hits home. This book has helped me to get through life with less confusion by understanding things about people I could never understand before. It is a very deep read so it should be read several times and then kept as a reference. Whenever me and my wife talk about someone the other doesn't know we will refer to them by their personality or we will ask what personality they probably are. Kind of a language for us.

I recommend "Personality Types : Using the Enneagram for Self Discovery" by Don Riso and Richard Hudson. https://www.amazon.com/Personality-Types-Using-Enneagram-Self-Discovery/dp/0395798671

type 5

type 4

type 5w4

type 4w5

This book is very good.

7's are some of my favorite types! Eric Andre is probably my favorite 7w8. Here are the sections from Personality Types about 7w6 vs. 7w8 (warning: very long)

The 7 with a 6-Wing: "The Entertainer"

The traits of the 7 and those of the 6 are in a certain amount of tension with each other: 6s are oriented toward people, while 7s are oriented toward things and experiences, quite capable of fulfilling their own needs themselves. In both types, however, there are dependencies; 6s depend on finding approval and security from others, while 7s depend on the environment to make them happy. People of this subtype will attempt to find satisfaction for themselves, while looking to other people as additional sources of stimulation and happiness. 7s with a 6-wing are perhaps the most gregarious and outgoing of all the subtypes. The adventurous search for experience in the 7 combines with the desire for security through connection in the 6, and the mix produces individuals who enjoy encountering and interacting with other human beings. 7s with a 6-wing are more relationship-oriented than 7s with an 8-wing, who tend to be more
experience-oriented.

Healthy 7s with a 6-wing are highly productive individuals with an infectious joie de vivre. They can be noticeably playful, childlike, engaging, silly, and despite difficult experiences, tend to retain a certain innocence and belief in life's goodness. They can also be highly creative and entertaining—as the subtype nickname suggests—and tend to have a more positive outlook on the world (like Nines) than the 7s with an 8-wing. They often have quick minds and an inspired sense of humor, but when, healthy can utilize the 6's discipline, cooperative spirit, and organizational abilities to accomplish a great deal. While they are essentially assertive, they also want others to like and accept them. If they have money, they tend to be generous with others, particularly in their socializing, party giving, and traveling. They use their optimism and high spirits to connect with others and forge bonds with them. People of this subtype have a soft, sweet side which can be very appealing. They are a kaleidoscope of contrasting traits—ingratiating and sassy, vulnerable and resilient, spontaneous and dependable, adult and childlike.

Average 7s with a 6-wing may still be productive, but the 6-wing's fears fuel the tendency of the 7 to lose focus and become scattered. They have problems with insecurity and are more aware of their anxieties than the other subtype. 7s with a 6-wing can often appear to be nervous and flighty, revved up and fidgety, and they tend to have more trouble with follow-through than 7s with an 8-wing. Average people of this subtype are defensive and impulsive. They want approval and are afraid of being anxious or alone, and have high expectations of their paramours. They want to be loved and they fall in love easily. But they also fall out of love easily as soon as the romance has worn off. Being in love is a powerful experience, which average people of this subtype enjoy having: they are always either in a relationship or looking for one. They can still be quite funny, but an underlying note of anxiety is closer to the surface. They may act like cheerleaders, attempting to rouse others and create a more exciting environment, but often become excessive and, to others, tiresome in the process. When others do not meet their expectations for stimulation, the 6ish tendency to sulking and pessimism may come out. Lower average 7s with a 6-wing become caught between the 7's desire to move on to "greener pastures" and the 6's fear of losing their safe connections with others. They are gregarious but insecure about what people think of them; impulsive but anxious about their decisions; extravagant yet anxious about money. As their anxieties increase, people of this subtype tend to become increasingly insensitive toward others, without being aware of it. They also become self-centered, demanding that others help them through bouts of anxiety. Thus, for better or worse, while the 6-wing softens the 7's aggressive nature, it also reinforces its anxiety. As in the 6 with a 7-wing, there is a strong propensity for substance abuse

Unhealthy 7s with a 6-wing display the erratic, manic qualities of the unhealthy 7 along with the fearful, clinging qualities of the 6, and engage in a restless search for "playmates"— people who will be "coconspirators" in their misadventures and keep them distracted from their mounting fear and distress. They want to have the approval and affection of others, and will likely experience acute problems with inferiority and anxiety, traits which are problems for each of the component subtypes. They will turn to other people, tearfully but obnoxiously demanding that others solve their problems for them. They may stay up night after night, staying on the telephone or hanging out in nightspots with anyone who will talk to them. If this does not work, people of this subtype become hysterical and helpless, alternately thrashing around and lashing out, driving away others and seeking to bring them back to their sides. This subtype is also highly prone to self-destructive behaviors and dramatic, masochistic episodes, such as suicide attempts. Eventually, overwhelmed physically and emotionally, they succumb to addictions or completely break down.

The 7 with an 8-Wing: "The Realist"

The traits of the 7 and those of the 8 produce a personality combination which is very aggressive, since each component type is aggressive. Persons of this subtype are aggressive in two ways: in the demands they make on the environment and in the strength of their egos to enforce those demands. No one frustrates people of this subtype without hearing about it. They are extremely assertive and industrious, and are also more goal-oriented, pragmatic, and ambitious than the other subtype. They use their drive and high energy to maintain an intense, active lifestyle, and are less worried about having others around for the ride. Their ego strength is considerable, and the 8-wing provides more focus on tasks and objectives.

Healthy people of this subtype are exuberant and enthusiastic, since they are fundamentally 7s. They are people who truly enjoy the world and the things it offers—materialists in the broadest sense of the word. They enjoy the good things of life and combine the 7's avid intelligence with the 8's daring and drive in a way that often results in material success. The 8-wing adds elements of self-confidence, willpower, and self-assertion to help them overcome obstacles and endure whatever hardships might be in their paths. This subtype also has a capacity for leadership. Persons of this subtype who are leaders are known for their quick minds and the brilliance of their personal style. They are noticeably adult, earthy, businesslike, persistent (especially with difficult tasks), tenacious, and give an impression of bemused worldliness. 7s with an 8-wing know that they can get what they want from life: they think strategically and can rapidly reorganize their internal and external resources in pursuit of something they want.

Average people of this subtype are more practical, worldly, and cosmopolitan than 7s with a 6-wing. They apply their energies in many directions, multi-tasking or even "multi-careering." The 8-wing adds a degree of workaholism not as evident in the other subtype. They seek out intense experiences of all sorts, enjoying the rush of adrenaline they supply. There is also a stronger desire to accumulate possessions or "toys"—new cars, fine clothing, jewelry, stereo equipment, TVs, and other gadgets. The subtext is "I'm worth it!" Of course, 7s with an 8-wing also enjoy travel and new experiences, but focus more on activities than on socializing with others. People of this subtype are certainly not immune to romance but tend to be hard-nosed realists about their relationships. They are not afraid of being alone, and are very clear about their needs, expectations, and weaknesses. Their directness can verge into a crude bluntness in the lower Levels, and less healthy 7s with an 8-wing are not above "pushing to the front of the line" to get what they want. They make their desires known, and pursue them with less regard for the needs, desires, or feelings of others, and sometimes without regard for law or morality. Individuals of this subtype do
not try to avoid conflicts; indeed, the reverse is usually the case: they are stimulated by confrontations because of the excitement which conflicts produce. They begin to adopt a jaded, world-weary attitude in contrast to the childish, hyperenthusiasm of the 7 with a 6-wing. They are also stronger willed, resisting anything that might control them, and are therefore somewhat less likely to succumb to substance abuse than the other subtype. At the same time, they tend to be more hardened and willful than the 7 with a 6-wing.

Unhealthy 7s with an 8-wing suffer both the 7's compulsive mania and the 8's destructive antisocial tendencies. They tend to involve themselves in dangerous scenes in the search for escape from their anxiety. Gambling, involvement with the underworld, extreme sexual practices, and "living on the edge" rapidly deplete their physical, emotional, and financial resources. They can become ruthless, particularly if they believe someone has what they want, whether a person or a thing. Because unhealthy 7s fly out of control and unhealthy 8s overestimate their power, unhealthy people of this subtype are extremely reckless and dangerous. They may become physically destructive when they act out, with possibly devastating effects for others. Their erratic behavior can quickly lead to circumstances which result in either death or mental breakdown.

• Buy Riso's book
  
• avoid the internet, it's mostly people rambling and speculating

http://www.amazon.com/Personality-Types-Using-Enneagram-Self-Discovery/dp/0395798671/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0QW0J2HS72X2DKKWB5Q3

That was the book I read on the Enneagram, and it went pretty deep into the downward spirals people can fall into, with a little about getting out of them. Reading about the patterns that people display made me more self aware about my own behaviors, the negative ones.

Once you figure out what your negative behaviors are, and you've got something you want to change, I would step out side of the MBTI network, so you're not limited in potential resources. Learning to exchange unhealthy defense mechanisms for healthier ones is just a matter of trial and error.

Honestly, the real problem here is that to complete a goal you need a starting point A, a finishing point B, and a path to connect the two. You have no point B because you don't know what you want to become. You have no point A because you're unsure of what to measure.

It is just way more efficient to fill in the path once you have your points. Asking for a path without those points? At best, everyone is going to fill you with well meaning crap that might not even apply to your situation. At worst you become a meandering wanderer who chases self help books and new age bullshit while they get further and further from solidifying an actual identity with every step.

I'm curious about what kind of answer you're hoping for. I'm really not being critical of it. I've just noticed that you post about relationships a lot on /r/mbti, /r/enneagram, /r/infp etc. and it's always questions of a similar nature.

Sort of related: if you haven't read it already, I highly recommend this book. The section on 4s is pretty great and definitely provided me with a lot of insight. Fair warning though, the section about how 4s develop in childhood and the information about the unhealthy levels may make you feel a bit of despair about our type. It threw me off for a few days.

edit: sigh what's with the hair-trigger downvoting?

I know books can't solve everything, but they sure do help get you started, and they can give you a sense of direction as well. I'd STRONGLY recommend reading this book: Personality Types .

I think you would find a LOT of relatable information, I only know because I was in a similar situation as you; the bi-products of living my life in a similar way were very similar to yours. Messy house, I didn't care about much, I felt as if many of the college classes I HAD to take in order to get to the ones I wanted to take were pointless, I was lazy, and I had some pretty bad habits that really fucked with my personal improvement (like video games, PMO, unhealthy habits, et cetera).

Anyway, that book gave me a much needed boost to kickstart my life and start getting my shit together because it hit SO close to home. I would say that it described me at about 80% accuracy. I've always been skeptical of these types of books, but this one hit home in a big way.

What part of Nietzsche talks about existence being a "movement toward something?" Before reading EofA, I reread Genealogy of Morals.

I have definitely had Nietzsche on my mind while reading this. IMHO, his amoral attitude is an epistemological demand for truth, revolting against conditioned perspectives on existence. He once said something like, "In England, they are allowed to get rid of Christianity only if they keep its morality. In Germany, when we get rid of Christianity, we have no right to its morality."

So, De Beauvoir is writing a treatise on why her brand of atheism- existentialism- is a moral philosophy. It seems super important in answering his question. De Beauvoir is writing for Zarathustra.

I have also pondered upon the meaning of the maxim, "He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." This seems to define existence as a negative, a reciprocal.

Incidentally, the quote before is: "Comparing man and woman generally, one may say that woman would not have the genius for adornment, if she had not the instinct for the SECONDARY role." This seems to foreshadow Beauvoir's next book.

I also noticed that the personality types are similar to something I saw on a youtube Kierkegaard video. I have also noticed that the way she writes about the personality types is similar to Don Russo's book on the Enneagram However, I must understand that this isn't a psychology book. The types are not even personality types, but states of mind. "Concretely, men slide incoherently from one attitude to another." She even uses the word, "dialectically" at least two times, in describing the types. This makes me wonder if she is trying to argue that these are possible attitudes, a-priori.

Also, have been skimming "Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Morals" and noticed a ton of similarities. the concept of a rational will is talked about in both. If I"m not mistaken, Beauvoir is arguing that the appeal to the rational is an externality and so it is dangerous because it can value systems over human life. This concept aligns with my reading of Reichenbach, who also challenges Kant because he believes there is not logical faculty of the brain- that all knowledge is based on experience.