Reddit reviews The Divine Comedy: Inferno; Purgatorio; Paradiso (Everyman's Library)

I think most people arguing about the "disastrous effects" of the Church in the Middle Ages that you mention don't really know what they're talking about.

Taking just the examples you cite. The Crusades were originally called as wars of defense against Muslim incursions in Spain and against the Byzantine Empire. Even the reconquest of the Holy Land was a reconquest of territories that Arab armies had taken from the Byzantines, albeit centuries earlier. Yes, the Crusades were often brutal and filled with shocking violence, but the 11th-12th-13th centuries were an extremely violent period, filled with endemic warfare. Brutality abounded.

Taxes, I'm not sure what the complaint really is. It's not like we still don't have taxation today that people hate.

On artistic stagnation, I have a real difficulty with the notion that people who created this and this and this were artistically stagnant. Also, the fact that literacy was largely limited to monks, nuns, and clerics was because the Church was the only group really interested in educating people. The fact that anyone could read at all was largely because the Church, often in conjunction with secular leaders (Charlemagne being a famous example), instituted a program of education, which laypeople were not barred from taking advantage of. It has to be realized that there are economic impediments here too, for education to flourish, you need a middle class and that didn't happen until the 11th and 12th centuries, which is exactly why you see a flourishing of (church sponsored) learning, the cathedral school, and then eventually the university. It's hard to organize a school when Vikings show up every few months, kill half the people, and take all your stuff or when you're starving to death.

And yes, the Pope helped prevent wars (see for example, Peace of God Movement), but he quite (probably more) often helped start them, so that's probably a wash.

They certainly patronized the arts, but of course nobles did so as well.

Many Church officials were cruel, evil men. Some were St. Francis. Most were just regular people.

The important thing is that the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages was not some monolithic entity, nor was did it as centralized as the Church of today. It was a loose, often vaguely defined, predominantly local organization that was interwoven into every aspect of society, most often subject to local temporal leadership. It's a dynamic, ever changing phenomenon, inseparable from medieval culture and society. I think to talk about its "effects" in the manner of the popular understanding you reference is really to cloud the issue.

Do you know what translation of Dante you're reading? I tried to finish it it high school, but I was stopped by the difficult language. It turned out that the local bookstore I bought it from stocked only a horribly out-of-date translation. I was cleaning out my room when I found it in a drawer; it's sitting in the garbage now, because I don't want to hock it and risk anyone else being turned away from Dante because of it. The best translations are by Mark Musa and Allen Mandelbaum.

I hate to be a spoiler

Going on a 20 day trip to Europe this summer! Officially confirmed date is June 24!


Going to visit various towns in Italy, France and England, as well as live with local families several nights! Super excited!


So, I've been looking around for a book to read while I'm there, and I've settled on getting a single-volume of Dante's Divine Comedy with all cantos. I wanted something that's a good long read, and is influential to European culture.


What's the best translation/copy at an affordable price? Preferably hardback.


So far, I'm thinking of this copy by Freeman's Library. Love the company. Read a copy of 1984 and Catch-22 from them and they've got quality, beautiful products, would recommend. The translation is Mandelbaum’s, which is supposed to be pretty good.


Any books that are better? Like I said, a good long read that's influential.