Reddit Reddit reviews The Fighting Spirit of Japan: The Esoteric Study of the Martial Arts and Way of Life in Japan

We found 2 Reddit comments about The Fighting Spirit of Japan: The Esoteric Study of the Martial Arts and Way of Life in Japan. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.

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2 Reddit comments about The Fighting Spirit of Japan: The Esoteric Study of the Martial Arts and Way of Life in Japan:

u/bozo78 · 10 pointsr/judo

Ok...I guess I should probably get this out of my system once and for all :)

Yes, I do have some experience with pushing hands, gained via sporadic Chen Taiji training and some extended exploration of what is colloquially know as internal strength / neijia (about 8 years or so). I'm not an expert but I know the tropes and can discern the real deal from the all too common bullshido.

The TL;DR, right up front: this is a very deep rabbit hole that is incredibly difficult to mine. Frankly, I'm not sure I'd recommended it UNLESS you have reliable, intelligent and easily accessible training partners. It's not something that can be kinda-sorta dug into for some kewl tricks. It's not something you can learn on your own.

After some years - and calculating the ROI on things, I decided that the sums just didn't add up.

Preamble:

In my opinion, the best common-language analog to internal strength / neijia may be what is now being called "invisible jiujitsu", per Jack Taufer, Henry Aikins and Rickson Gracie. As most of you are BJJers, I presume this term is familiar. If not, see this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbtIPkyGm4g

Having never met them, I can't speak to their fully methods but I can say that they appear to be converging on some aspects of neijia (structure, frame, stability etc) although whether other aspects are there or not I have no idea. Frankly, I'm not suprised: constrain a situation - such as two guys grappling for position - and eventually you will run into these sorts of little aha's. FFS, there's evidence of this sort of proto-body use with farmers and manual labourers.

Details:

Most people don't fully realise that taiji is a grappling based art (no newaza though). For an eye-opening (albeit limited) video, see these

https://youtu.be/Gb_CC3GE18M

https://youtu.be/lk-OITQqHP8?t=2m49s

Not what you thought, right? I know that the way it's mostly portrayed is as a thing little old ladies do in the park. In fact, IMHE, taiji is quite physically exhausting, has some very clever training tools (push hands being primary) and is a lifetime's study. NOTE: I have no intention of fielding any "oh yeah, well...where are these guys on the UFC stage? Why aren't they competing at the Olympics"? Just sharing my opinion / experience and not looking to justify anything beyond that.

I don't have too much time right now, so will discuss in point form.

(1)

IF you could find someone sensible to train with that wasn't entirely into gazing at their navel and eating granola (difficult) NOR entirely about "just use some body english, dude" (difficult), THEN push hands is useful. The chances of you finding someone to do this with are vanishingly small - God knows I tried for a period of 5 or so years.

BTW, here is an example of shitty push hands, explained

https://youtu.be/kNAV_AurtKI

(2)

The utility of push hands is in regards to absorbing, deflecting, redirecting and adding force. This not simply a matter of taisabaki or gripping. What does this mean? It means that neijia is a method of "body management" and push hands is one of the best training methods.

Bearing in mind that this is just an example - and not a spectacular one at that, nor is it combat (again, just an example of mechanics) you can get a idea here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLB9TxuQ4kk

Perhaps a more familiar example here

https://youtu.be/MZ4w4yntGnM

Again, here's Rickson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbtIPkyGm4g

Now....watch Inoue...can you see how he manages his body in a similar fashion? See how he's always causing his partner to push themselves off balance, basically throwing themselves? Believe it or not, this is considered low hanging fruit of IS skills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiHS479uee8

(3)

Judo has a bunch of references to this sort of body use. A classic one is to be found in Harrison's "The Fighting Spirit of Japan" (if you've not read this, you should. Harrison was one of the first Westerners to study martial arts in Japan - it's a great travelogue)

https://www.amazon.com/Fighting-Spirit-Japan-Esoteric-Martial/dp/0879511427

(4)

A more contemporary example is GoNoKata. There are many video clips now of GNK but to my eye, this is the only one that embodies these concepts of body management

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVF4dHzXklo

(5)
The best (albeit dated) treaties on this material -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FanJUCaUOO4

Summary:

So, is push hands useful? Yes. Should you pursue it, in hopes of developing your Judo? Honestly...probably not. The chances of finding someone to do it correctly / beneficially are pretty small.

To end on a touch of pretension (and to show off my many thousand dollar outstanding student debt) -

  • Ars longa,
  • Vita brevis
  • Occasio praeceps,
  • Experimentum periculosum
  • Iudicium difficile

    PS: The real mindfuck for you here: if Judo was MEANT to use these principles....and 99.999% have no idea of them or use them....then are we really doing Judo as it was intended? Things that make you go hmmm :)
u/[deleted] · 4 pointsr/judo

Yes, it does. Or it did. Most people don't know or drill it though. The concept use to be discussed on Judo Forum back in the day by the likes of Sir Harry Flashman. It can get a little esoteric. The four legged animal concept is the starting point.

Some of us have argued that Go-no-kata trains this exact thing.

Let me be honest with you: unless your instructor is aware and/or willing to explore these ideas, you're probably not going to find this material useful. The way judo is typically train precludes much development of this stuff. Ask me how I know :)

EDIT: Read / watch the above stuff, then read Harrison's Fighting Spirit of Japan, specifically his judo interactions and demonstrations.