Reddit reviews The Invention of the Jewish People

Israeli history Professor Shlomo Sand The Invention of the Jewish People https://www.amazon.co.uk/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234

Ashkenazi Jews originated in the Caucasus and converted to Judaism in the 8th Century AD. They have no ancestral and no DNA relationship to the Middle East.

First Customer Review:-

A thorough and interesting update on 'The Khazar Hypothesis'. In this book Shlomo Sand goes into considerable detail about the origins of the Ashkenazi Jews, providing considerable support for the view that they are of Khazar origin, and are a Slavic, not a Semitic people.

Arthur Koestler's pioneering book, 'The Thirteenth Tribe' from 1976 was subjected to all the ire that the powerful Israeli propaganda machine could throw at it. Sand's book is much better researched, and written in a less provocative manner.

More on the Origins of Ashkenazi Jews, the Origins and History of Israel, and the real reasons why Israel bombed Gaza in 2014 http://ian56.blogspot.com/2014/07/an-honest-israeli-jew-tells-real-truth_11.html

Another Israeli historian Shlomo sand actually wrote a whole book about israel.
As far as i know, he still a professor in University of Tel Aviv.
source

What rubbish.

There was no such thing as "The Jews" nor was Israel their "homeland":

https://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234

https://www.amazon.com/Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754


Even the rabbis are facing some facts:


>Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/09/books/new-torah-for-modern-minds.html


Even if you accept Bible as history, in total "The Jews" were politically dominant in the area for a grand total of 600 years out of the thousands of years of history there.

In fact the whole idea of a "national homeland for the Jews" was Manufactured in Europe based on the same 19th century "Blood and Soil" ethnocentricism that created Nazism.

And considering how many wars and conflicts have resulted from the creation of Israel, saying that it has somehow secured them is absolutely silly. And in any case why should we prioritize the security of Jews over that of Palestinians? Why should a Palestinian suffer because Jews were treated badly in Europe?

I guess not being genocidal war criminals is not an option then? I guess not when you have to find some way to justify murdering people and stealing their lands to create an ethnically-purified mythical "homeland" for a made-up people. http://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234/

There have been hushed mutterings from a few geneticists that the Jews' heritage doesn't go back to the roots one might expect. I should warn that even taking an interest in this topic makes you an anti-semite, so since you're already cursed, the two main books are:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Thirteenth-Tribe-Empire-Heritage/dp/0445042427

http://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1407268340&sr=1-1&keywords=shlomo+sand

> Jews had the Jerusalem as their capital for centuries.

For about 800 years, even assuming that the Bible is true

out of a total how many years of civilization there?

And they stole it from the Canannites, yes?

But in fact the Jewish residents of Jerusalem welcomed the Arabs in the Siege of Jerusalem, which at the time was under Byzantine control and not Jewish control -- the Byzantines had massacred the Jews in fact. Under the Muslims, the Jews were able to once again practice their religion, FYI

There has never been a country called Florida either, does that mean you get to steal that land and drive out its inhabitants to manufacture a fake version of a non-existent past?

And speaking of national identity, who are these "The Jews" you speak of at all?

The Invention of the Jewish People
by Shlomo Sand

http://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234

didn't Cyrus the great, (the persians) free the jews? lol. Also the continuity of jewish history is adequately questioned in this book, http://www.amazon.ca/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1417045798&sr=1-1
but this is besides the point,
the real question is, who has the power to, often anachronistically, create history in the first place?

>most white people have nothing to do with black's people's predicament

there are some people in the world who have historically benefited from the oppression of others, regardless of their intentions (although that was made clear in the earlier quote i gave). In western society, racism is intrinsically linked to white supremacy; as such, only those who benefit from white supremacy, only those who have access to this "privilege," may be identified as racist. When non-whites are negatively biased against one another, who benefits in the end? In a similar vein, when a supplier and a consumer engage in a trade, sure they each benefit, but who are those that ultimately benefit? In the first case, it is those who have access to white privilege, and not those affected by internalizing and believing the illusions that they are inferior races (if you are a dark skinned black women, take a moment to google image the term 'beauty'.. how would it affect you to see light skinned people as the prime idea of what this term encompasses?'). In the second, it is those who have access to printing currency and determining its trajectory. Of course, this is why intersectionality is important: those who ultimately benefit in both cases are the same people. the fact that some of the oppressed have been able to climb out of the hole and others have not been able to, doesn't really matter. all of this requires empathy.

Take for instance, the idea of ‘ethnic solidarity’; where migrants and minorities provide economic and social support that is biased against or excludes white communities. Those who claim that this exclusion is racist against whites; or that, by prejudicing and categorizing their own and/or other non-white communities as being vulnerable, they are perpetuating ‘the problem’ are missing the point all together: that the problem of racism is nothing without power. In other words, oppressive institutions, in this case involving race and economic/social power (class), are necessarily interconnected and cannot be understood separately. The more precise our level of analysis would like to be, the more context dependent it becomes.

> there is no concept of these nations beyond belonging to whatever ruling clan or tribe

And that is very much a description of Israel.

>Your phrase "manufactured state" is curious. What could it mean?



It means a nation built on an artificially constructed sense of national identity such as that which the Zionists created in order to manufacture "Israel":

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1844676234

http://www.amazon.com/The-Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754



>The polls prove nothing.


LOL, I'll take the word of multiple independent polls over some ass on reddit anyday

Are you claiming that Judaism arose spontaneously, out of thin air? Perhaps the Hebrews just sprang out of the ground somewhere? Are you arguing that Judaism is the first, or earliest religion? That it has no historical antecedent whatsoever? That monotheism was not, in fact, predated by polytheism? Have you conducted any research to support these claims?

The segments in my post are well-cited. Perhaps you'd like to refute the authors of the research? By all means, look up the citations and compose angry, emotionally-based retorts to this historical and archaeological research.

Educate thyself. The following works are by Israeli authors:

The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts

Authors: Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, and Neil Asher Silberman, an archaeologist, historian and contributing editor to Archaeology Magazine.

The Invention of the Jewish People

Author: Shlomo Sand, Professor of History at Tel Aviv University





The Wandering Who

Author: Isreali-born Gilad Atzmon



Review:

It is a scholarly and truly monumental work, deeply profound and, of course, controversial. (Alan Hart, British Journalist and covert diplomat in Middle East, ITN's News at 10, BBC's Panorama)

This map including your video on youtube is complete BS. You have no idea on the nature of Jews and you are just peddling Jewish mythologies that have no basis in reality. The scientific papers you reference use vague genetic findings that make assumptions based on those vague findings to align with Jewish mythologies which can be easily disproven by actual history and other more rigorous scientific papers. In fact, there was no "Roman exile" from Palestine (the original Jews were only banned from the old city of Jerusalem to the surrounding area) and practically all Jews today are descended from converts from various locations outside of the Levant, mostly North Africa (Berbers), Europe, Turkey, Iran, Ethiopia, Russia, and Yemen. Many of these Jews may have intermixed with one another to form a "pseudo-race" but that doesn't mean they originated from a single location like your map and video suggests. The descendants of the original Jews of Palestine are known as Palestinians today.

Go read "The Invention of the Jewish People" by Israeli professor and historian Dr. Shlomo Sand.

> this being pretty common and undisputed knowledge.

While that's the commonly held belief, it is not undisputed.

Shlomo Sand, a professor of Israeli history at Tel Aviv university, posits in his book The Invention of the Jewish People that Ashkenazi jewry is not in fact descended from the Jews who once lived in Judea and Samaria, but rather that they are decended from peoples who converted to Judaism in the middle ages. He draws on a wide range of archaeological, historical and demographic evidence to support his claim, and presents a persuasive argument.

While this book has come under heavy criticism in the West, it's worth mentioning that it was well received in Israel, and was on the bestseller list there for nineteen weeks.

Edit: I see that Sand now has a follow-up book, called The Invention of the Land of Israel. The Guardian has a review here, for those interested.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/643380/posts

there was no Roman expulsion of Jews in 70AD, there was no Exodus, "King" David was a small-timer, etc. etc.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754/ref=pd_sim_b_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1GX0AG3YPR0P2GSAS1JA

http://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1409511043&sr=1-1&keywords=Shlomo+sands

Why not try this instead.

Nonsense, and nobody said facts matter less than feelings. It is a FACT that Palestnians have been ethnically-cleansed by Israel. Note that not ONE jew is sent to refugee camps, only Palestinians are, and not ONE Palestinian is granted an automatic "Right of return" from anywhere in the world to enjoy state-subsidized housing in settlements in Israel, only Jews are -- do you think that's a coincidence?



Anyway, first of all Jews have and had been in the Middle East for a long time before Israel's creation, they're well integrated in the rest of the world too, and if anything it is Israel itself that is placing "the jews" in danger


Second, there is no "The Jews", it is a manufactured identity
https://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234

https://www.amazon.com/Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754

Anyway, why should the Palestinians have to pay for Europe's antisemitism

https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553

Mossad

• I have worked with a couple of them. I respect them for being very very good at what they do. That is completely separate from the fact that much of what they do is off the scale on criminal.
  
  How Israelis look.
  
  
• Israel is an invented nation. Every Arab (and every Jew) should read the following book: The Invention of the Jewish People at below URL:
  
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1844676234/ossnet-20
  
  what about Jonathan Pollard?
  
  
• Pollard is a traitor who has been mythologized by Israel. He tried to sell secrets to several other countries until Israel bought him. If I were president and Israel asked me to free Pollard, I would hang him on the front lawn of the White House and leave his body to rot--and then expel the entire Israeli Embassy from the USA.
  
  Kuwait and Iraq.
  
  
• I have no direct knowledge. I do believe the US Ambassador Gillespie made a mess of things. However I also observe that the US Congress allowed itself to be lectured by the daughter of the Kuwaiti Ambassador about babies being thrown from incubators as if she had been there, and I have to marvel at the stupidity of all of us in allowing such fraud to take place.
  
  Abu Gharib ?
  
  
• Abu Gharib is an eternal shame on every American. The US Government broke the social contract with the National Guard, and in invading Iraq on the basis of 935 now-proven lies (truth-dig), cost the US citizens over three trillion, then a broken economy, and the loss of legtimacy in the eyes of anyone with a brain. Combined with the CIA's rendition flights and torture, and now the CIA drone program, I must confess to being very ashamed of all that is done in our name and at our expense. There is a great deal of good in the USA, there is still an America the Beautiful, but the chasm between We the People and those who kill and torture others in our name has never been greater.
  
  why does some americans support the female?
  
  
• Most Americans do not support the female. She looks like a moron with no intelligence and no integrity. In breaking the social contract with the National Guard the US Govenrment also put tens of thousands of people into Iraq who were not fully professional. Our flag officers have also sacrificed their integrity for several generations. We have too many of them and most of them care more about their rank than their mission.
  
  Iraq roads
  
  
• The best book I can recommend is this one:
  
  We Meant Well: How I Helped Lose the Battle for the Hearts and Minds of the Iraqi People
  
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805094369/ossnet-20
  
  Terrorists
  
  
• It is known that both Israel and Iran has an interest in making it difficult for the Americans to succeed in Iraq, but Americans are their own worst enemy. General Garner was intent on getting us out of Iraq within 90 days, but Dick Cheney committed treason, in my view, by firing Garner and sending in Bremer.
  
  Finally, ... how come no US military wether low or average rank is waking up
  
  
• Many of them have. I have no direct knowledge but Private Manning is an example of both a severely vulnerable US system of communications, and of what can happen when a lower ranking person has a chance to do something. We have eighteen veterans a day committing suicide, that is the best indication to me of their realizing they were screwed by their own government.
  
  why is it the west call us backwards but when we show them buildings and education also entertainment they call us Show Offs ? and ignore the positive and useful for negative and useless ? why cant they say good job and well done?
  
  
• The West is not known for its grasp of multi-cultural nuance. The Ugly American has been with us for a very long time, and sadly, it only takes one Ugly American (Blackwater hires them by the thousands) to undo the good of the many Peace Corps and AID and other good people we send out.
  
  why do they always ask for prostitiution, alcahol and nudity? instead of asking for a meeting and having normal conversations, drink pepsi and wear just clothes that does'nt show cleavage and ass?
  
  
• Cultural ignorance. Have you seen the photo of the completely naked Arab girl protesting her government's lack of legitimacy? There are some who believe that Arab men mistreat their women. This would be a good subject for an open space technology discussion.
  
  why is that they say boohoo poor women in middle east but when she visits she gets snarled at ?
  
  
• Americans are conflicted. They mean well. Women wearing veils in the US or France makes the Western men react in a very negative way.

read the book and write a review.
http://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405599531&sr=8-1&keywords=shlomo+sand

>of course nationalism is connected to language because nationalism is all about believing in the same thing and loving the same thing. To do that you must speak the same language to convey ideas to each other. But it could have been English for all I care! the fact the Jews spoke Hebrew had nothing to do with the UN vote. If you show me a source then there would be something to talk about.

You are contradicting yourself. Earlier you tell me it had nothing to do with it, now you're telling me of course it does.

And I didn't say anything about the UN vote. The UN vote was secured by other means.

>Again, you keep saying the same thing without backing it up. You keep saying the fact that Jews spoke Hebrew was a major role in our claim to the country. Show me a source that says that

It is the logical conclusion of the statements I made earlier, which you have verified as true. Why don't you show me a source that says it isn't?! Hahaha..who says the burden of proof is on me here?? I just made a logical argument and you agreed to it.

Language plays a key role in nationalism and culture, and they could not have created the zionist pretence of "return" to a "national homeland" without having any single thing unifying the populace other than some shaky self-identification as "jews". Without a single thing unifying them, Ethiopian Jews and Yemeni Jews had absolutely nothing in common with secular Jews coming in from Germany, or Russian peasant jews, or American Jews showing up from Brooklyn. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the language played an extremely important role for zionism.

If you can't provide a source to dispute that, then at least provide a logical argument other than "no it didnt".


>So you think millions of people decided to only speak Hebrew just as a ruse that the Jews have a connection to Israel??

No, people didn't decide as some ruse. They wanted to believe in it. They wanted to feel like a unified nation.

>The purpose of Zionism was to go back to their roots, to what they used to be. And that was having a sovereign country, with a unique language.

This is exactly my point. It is an artificial identity. It is as artifical as a bunch of people invading Israel from Syrian and Lebanon and "modernizing" the Canaanite language. Their culture isn't Canaanite, they have the cultures of the Arabs, French, Greeks - whatever. Just as the Jews had the culture of the Germans, the Russians, etc. It is a nationalist myth. Many countries do this. The Finns, when striving for independence from Russia, concocted a nationalist architecture that was made up. They copied other scandinavian architecture and tweaked it and everyone acted as if it was some kind of indigenous Finnish architecture.



>If Hebrew (for some weird reason) caught on and was spoken in all the major countries, it would still be the native tongue of Israeli Jews.

Yes and if Hebrew wasn't artificially reconstructed, then what would Israel's national language be today? Russian? Arabic? German? Yiddish? Farsi? Ethiopian? All of them? How would this nation of cousins speak to each other? They wouldn't!


>And yes. If you learned Jewish history like I did, there was an exile from Israel. Some people went to Europe, and some people went to the arabian peninsula and north africa. But they all come from the same place... At the end of the day, both sects of Judaism are simply that. Jews. And that is the root that zionism is trying to get back to.

This isn't even agreed on!

I suggest you read The Invention of the Jewish People

Jews are not some ethnically united group. They didn't even 'leave'. Most stayed, and just converted to other religions. Those would be the Palestinians.

And getting back to some nationalist mythical culture is as artificial as Egyptians reviving the Pharaoh culture, or Lebanese and Syrians and Iraqis reviving Canaanite culture. It's artificial. It's fake. It's just there to make people happy and give them some sense of self-respect.

That is what zionism is about. Not returning or any of that shit. Theodore Herzl and the other founders of zionism were largely secular atheists. Zionism didn't take on the aire of "return" or any of that shit till later. It's easily proven - look at how many people who made aliyah to Israel "hebrewized" their names. People wanted to feel like they were 1 national group, so American jews coming in with names like John Carpenter or some shit are all of a sudden Avi Ben Ami or some shit. If you can't understand what I'm saying you are living in the same nationalistic dream land. Nationalist ethnically pure nation-states was a concept that died in the 20th century my friend.

Yes yes, we're all aware of the "new antisemitism" wherein every criticism of Israel is defined as anti-semitic but sorry no one is buying it. http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Yes-all-criticism-of-Israel-is-anti-Semitic

There is no such thing as a "Jewish people" -- this is a recently manufactured identity according to Prof Shlomo Sands at Hebrew University http://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234

http://www.amazon.com/The-Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754/ref=pd_sim_b_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1K0K6CEMKZXZWMFEGKPC

This is one of the many myths of Zionism -- there was no Roman Expulsion, there was no "King" David, there was exile from Egypt either, etc. etc. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/643380/posts

and even if there is, their "right of self-determination" is not superior to that of the Palestinians whom the Zionists ethnically-cleansed, and whose very existence the Zionists have sought to deny. "There are no such things as Palestinians" - Golda Meir.

The ashkenazi jews come from the old Khazar kingdom

• The Invention of the Jewish People - By Professor Shlomo Sand, Tel Aviv University
  

What's with the "tribe" stuff. Genetically related to the Khazars. Historically related to the Khazars. The main city, Atil, (NW Caspian Sea) was wiped from the face of the earth by the Rus - "not a grape, not a leaf on a branch". Disporia into what became Russia and Poland. Not, as "historically" presented, from the eastern meditteranean. Jews but not Semites. Palestinians are Semites forced to convert to Islam.

Edit: Read Schlomo Sand's The Invention of the Jewish People

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be insulting or combative but I recently read this book and it made a really strong case against the idea of the Jewish religion being passed via the bloodline. It makes an interesting read if you are interested. It's an important point for me as it is used a lot to justify illegal settlements and forced evictions of Palestinians, but I understand that has absolutely nothing to do with your family. I was just making an off-hand comment.