Reddit Reddit reviews The Philosophy of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy: Stoic Philosophy as Rational and Cognitive Psychotherapy

We found 14 Reddit comments about The Philosophy of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy: Stoic Philosophy as Rational and Cognitive Psychotherapy. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.

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14 Reddit comments about The Philosophy of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy: Stoic Philosophy as Rational and Cognitive Psychotherapy:

u/Prunr · 15 pointsr/INTP

Only studied it as part of my foray into eastern philosophy. I "came back" with more of an interest in Zen Buddhism rather than Taoism.

Recently I've found in Stoicism the bits I enjoyed in Zen Buddhism, and then some.

Pretty sure Stoicism -- which is not actually about quelling your emotions, as popular understanding would have it-- would be a better fit for INTPs, if not people in general.

Recommended reading is this book on the similarities between Stoic thought/practice and modern cognitive behavioural therapy. It dispells a lot of myths about stoicism and puts it's tenets in a modern perspective.

u/miyatarama · 10 pointsr/Stoicism

(continued)

>Are there any areas where you feel CBT or Hypnotherapy have significantly added to or expanded the ideas and techniques of Stoicism?

Yes. This is such a vast issue that it would take a very long time to answer this question properly, so I'll try to just make some brief comments. Modern psychological therapies are diverse and continually expanding, there are hundreds of books on CBT alone, so that in itself means there's always more and more scope for new comparisons with Stoicism. The Philosophy of CBT describes many points of comparisons between Stoicism and CBT, REBT, and hypnotherapy. In all of those areas, modern approaches and Stoicism offer different but perhaps complementary perspectives, and practical techniques. CBT practitioners certainly don't just "do Stoicism" with their clients, they use a vast array of different concepts and strategies, most of which would be of interest to Stoics. One difference is that CBT tends to focus on clinically-severe problems, diagnosable mental health disorders, which naturally leads to a different emphasis from ancient Stoicism. However, there's now more interest in applying CBT to "resilience-building", improving the overall wellbeing and resistance to stress of the normal population, and that's an area where the aims coincide more closely with the focus on traditional Stoicism. Stoicism has a fairly limited repertoire of practical techniques, which modern therapy has vastly expanded. We also have a fairly incomplete picture of Stoicism, unfortunately - only a tiny fraction of the ancient Stoic literature has survived. There was obviously a lot more to Stoicism than we know about. Chrysippus was one of the most prolific authors in the ancient world and yet virtually nothing of his remains. We could draw a huge list of CBT techniques that would be relevant to Stoicism but it would take time to explain them all. You probably want one or two examples, though, so here goes:

  • Imaginal exposure. The discussion of premeditatio malorum ("negative visualization") by William Irvine and others seems very simplistic to a modern therapist and very lacking in terms of links to current research on similar techniques. The most robust finding in the field of psychotherapy, in this regard, is that anxiety (and sometimes other feelings) tend to "habituate" or naturally wear off during repeated, prolonged, systematic exposure to the stimulus (when certain factors are controlled). Clearly, if the Stoics repeatedly visualized misfortune one of the things modern psychology tells us is that their level of anxiety will tend to naturally abate, whether or not they directly attempt to challenge their thinking - and in some cases too much verbal rumination might actually prevent the natural process of habituation from happening. So most anxiety specialists would probably advise Stoics to learn a bit more about that process in order to engage in premeditatio malorum, and that the procedure should probably be prolonged beyond the point at which most people would normally stop, i.e., for about 15-30 minutes per sitting, or until anxiety has reduced by at least 50%, in order for lasting habituation to occur.

  • Worry/rumination. In recent years there's been growing interest in the notion that traditional CBT may have placed too much emphasis on disputing the content of negative thoughts and not enough on managing the whole process of thinking, particularly learning to stop and interrupt prolonged episodes of worry (chains of thoughts about future catastrophes) or rumination (chains of thoughts analyzing past events). I'm sure the ancient Stoics make many passing comments that suggest they were "against" disputation or self-analysis being allowed to turn into prolonged worry/rumination. However, they don't give very clear and explicit advice on spotting and interrupting chains of thinking, which is perhaps a particular problem, an "occupational hazard", for philosophers! Again, tricky to be concise here, but learning to spot typical early-warning signs of worry/rumination spirals and then practicing postponing further thinking until a pre-specified time of your choosing is a common behavioural strategy (called the "stimulus control" method) for managing worry/rumination - although there are now many other methods being used for these issues.

  • Learning to gain "psychological distance" (or "defusion") from thoughts rather than engaging in disputation of them seems particularly important in this area, something hinted at in the Handbook of Epictetus but not often brought up in discussions of Stoicism because it's a concept most philosophical commentators don't seem to be familiar with, although it's very important in modern CBT and behaviour therapy. Epictetus appears to say that the Stoic should spot disturbing thoughts and remind himself that they are mere appearances before attempting to dispute them. There's now some evidence to suggest that "cognitive distancing" (or "defusion") may be more powerful than previously assumed and perhaps more important in many instances than trying to question the evidence for thoughts or beliefs. There are lots of studies in this area now and we're learning more all the time about the factors that are relevant and the value of different techniques of distancing thoughts from reality.

    > What, if any, practices of Stoic life do you feel should be added to the general practice of CBT, to enhance its effectiveness?

    Good question. I'd have to start by explicitly saying that this is speculative and that I wouldn't recommend introducing treatment components to CBT in clinical practice until they've been tested. (Although, incorporating some Stoicism might often just mean making the sort of slight "tweaks" to established techniques, which nobody would think it's necessary to run a clinical trial before doing.) Some suggestions?

  • Values clarification is absolutely integral to Stoicism, i.e., contemplating the nature of the good and acting with virtue. This wasn't really part of CBT, although something similar is now very central to Positive Psychology and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), which both evolve out of CBT. Being clear about what you value most in life and trying to act more often in the service of your values (or the virtues) is something that seems to mitigate against and depression and possibly generalized anxiety. It seems to me that expanding this aspect of CBT raises some of the best opportunities for explicit dialogue with philosophers, particularly Stoics. (See my book Build your Resilience for a detailed discussion of values work in behaviour therapy, with links to Stoicism.)

  • Distinguishing between things under your control and things not, which I would call "control appraisal". Obviously that's fundamental to Stoicism; Shaftesbury even calls it the "sovereign" precept of Stoicism. There are traces of it in CBT, especially in a recent protocol (Dugas' method) for generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) but we could probably develop that concept and techniques derived from it much further in certain forms of CBT.

  • The "view from above", as Hadot calls it, isn't a common strategy in Stoicism. It's not clear how it would function in terms of CBT theory but it's a very popular meditation and I think it deserves to be studied more systematically. It can be done simply by listening to recording, which is "gold dust" in therapy because it makes it extremely easy for clients to do it for ten minutes or so each day, with minimal training or preparation. (It also makes it much easier to do research on a technique if it can be administered with a standard recording: there's a complete script for this at the back of The Philosophy of CBT.) I've used this technique with hundreds of people over the years and almost everyone reports a sense of serenity that comes from it, and a shift in perspective. Technically, it may contribute to "cognitive distancing" but we need to be careful it's not misused as a form of "experiential avoidance", or a way to avoid confronting unpleasant thoughts and feelings.

    Moreover, there are lots of aspects of Stoicism beyond "technique" that add something of value, as I tried to emphasize in the introduction to Philosophy of CBT. The beautiful literature, the broad philosophical perspective, the sense of community with fellow Stoics - are all important things we don't really get from CBT.

    (continued)
u/Sennmeistr · 9 pointsr/Stoicism

>Combatting depression

Quoting a recent comment of mine:

>You might want to look into cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT), if that isn't what you already did.

>Recommended books:
The Philosophy of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and
Unshakeable Freedom.


>Also: Recommended Post.

 
>Philosophy and Stoicism

Apart from the Enchiridion and the Meditations, the primary reading list includes letters and essays from Seneca as well as Cicero or the fragments from Musonius Rufus. Modern books include How to be a Stoic, A guide to the good life and Stoicism and the art of happiness. The FAQ has a nice list which is worth checking out.

>Books about changing the way you think (false thoughts vs. truths)

This might not be Stoic, but you might be interested in Thinking fast and slow.

>Identity

Might not be exactly what you were looking for, but reading The mind illuminated and implementing meditation as a practice, changed the way I think about myself and my thoughts on a daily basis.

>The ego

A favourite of mine is the eight page-long article by urbanmonk.

A good starting point for thought provoking and self-help books is the sub /r/BettermentBookClub. If you search for thought provoking articles, /r/Foodforthought or /r/philosophy is the way to go.

u/cleomedes · 7 pointsr/Stoicism

The Stoics believed that it is not things that disturb us, but our judgements about those things. In particular, our judgements over whether or not things are good or bad/evil. So, it is your belief that your wife's death is a bad thing that causes distress, not the death itself.

A central element in Stoicism is that only arete (virtue/excellece of personal character) is good, and only departures from it bad. Although it is natural to prefer some external events over others, they are all morally indifferent.

Knowledge of good and bad is more like knowledge of a skill than a set of facts. If you've ever learned to play music, you know that learning a piece is more than just conscious knowledge of what the notes should be. So too with judging of good and bad.

Does this seems heartless? Well, yes. But remember, whether or not you completely believe the central Stoic claim, most of us never expect to completely learn the Stoic skill of judging good and evil, and exercises designed to teach this skill can move us in a beneficial direction. (Edit 2: Also remember that even Sages have "feelings" that are not due to judgements, and although a Sage will not allow the feeling to confirmed by judgement, it can still be present; see the referenced section of the FAQ below.)

Note that some of the modern psychotherepy technique CBT is based on a softened version of this Stoic assertion. (See Robertson's The Philosophy of CBT.)

EDIT: See also this question in the FAQ.

u/runeaway · 5 pointsr/Stoicism

I haven't yet read it, but I believe that The Philosophy of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy: Stoic Philosophy as Rational and Cognitive Psychotherapy by Donald Robertson is the definitive book on the subject.

u/Dataika · 5 pointsr/Stoicism

I have been reading this book recently and it has really helped change my overall outlook on life. In the appendix section it talks about various activities that one can do, in the morning, throughout the day, and at night in order to cultivate a stoic mindset.

I usually begin each morning with a 10 - 15 minute mindfulness meditation and 15 minutes of stoic practice. The stoic practices are reciting phrases from various authors (I like Epictetus' quotes on what we can control vs what we can't), imagining ourselves as a famous thinker (I usually think of Marcus Aurelius) and how we can respond to various challenges we may face during the day. During the day, I try to bring these scenarios to mind.

At night, before bed, I take 10 minutes or so to remember my day. I go through it event by event and think about what happened and if I could have done something differently. I then make peace with the decisions and can rest easy knowing that tomorrow is a new day. I find these processes have made an immense difference in my life. They only take about 30 to 45 minutes of real time, out of my day.

The book is awesome though and goes into more details. He has other books available to that I'm working my way through, I will tell you how it goes.

u/OnThatEpictetusShit · 5 pointsr/Stoicism

Just want to say, good question, hoping for some insightful answers to read.

Relatedly, I found this book really helpful, and it has some suggestions at the back for daily practice.

u/Topographicoceans1 · 3 pointsr/Epicureanism

Yes. Albert Ellis, one of the first cognitive behavioral psychologists, based his cognitive therapy (specifically Rational Emotive therapy) on Stoicism. Aaron T. Beck, considered the father of Cognitive therapy said the 'philosophical origins of CBT can be traced back to the Stoic philosophers.'

There was a book written about the subject, and some articles such as here, here, and here. I don't think Stoicism is always used for CBT, but the underpinnings of it are clear and the methodology are very much intimately linked.

I'm not trying to crap on Epicureanism or anything, they probably have more in common than most would think. But I lean towards the Stoics as Epicureanism always seemed...IDK, incomplete? Or simplistic? It has clear goals, but it doesn't state many ways to achieve them, or have many exemplary or practical applications in the way the Stoics do. Though to be fair, it's very likely a lot of that is due to many of the writings, such as most of Epicurus' have been lost to history, and only a few remain, including second hand accounts. Which is unfortunate.

u/Ulysses1978 · 2 pointsr/DecidingToBeBetter

Honestly I just took from the source itself. However since you ask this one looks interesting:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Philosophy-Cognitive-Behavioural-Therapy-Psychotherapy/dp/1855757567

NB I have no training in CBT

u/Marmun-King · 1 pointr/videos

I initially followed the principles of Stoicism, which is a philosophy that's very close to the principles of CBT. So my first resource was /r/Stoicism, where you can find things like this and this that have direct correlation with CBT principles. Greek and Roman literature might be hard to get into, but there are very readable translations and the principles are applicable.

Of course, not everyone is interested in philosophy, so my recommendation would be to find something along the lines of Judith Beck's Cognitive Therapy, or other similar resources that are based on research. I can't really recommend else because I haven't read much from other authors.

But in general I would recommend reading about cognitive biases in general, along the lines of this, this, this, or this. Being conscious of how everybody thinks might help you see some negative spirals in your life, and can help you change the environment that might lead you to that negativity.

But again, professional help can be very useful, so definitely consult a professional who is maybe better for you. Good luck!

u/egoadvocate · 1 pointr/Stoicism

First, I thought Philosophy as a Way of Life by Pierre Hadot had few insights and was dull and hard to understand. I do not recommend it.

I highly recommend The Philosophy of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, a book about stoicism and how it relates to psychology. I read this book twice it was so good. Here is the link:

http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Cognitive-Behavioural-Therapy-Psychotherapy/dp/1855757567/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1371647936&sr=8-15&keywords=stoicism

Also, you have to read the Enchiridion by Epictetus. Here is the link:

http://www.amazon.com/Enchiridion-Dover-Thrift-Editions-Epictetus/dp/0486433595/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1371648137&sr=1-1&keywords=enchiridion+epictetus

u/brazosite · 1 pointr/Stoicism

There's a book about that.

u/[deleted] · 1 pointr/Stoicism

It certainly does! UK psychotherapist Donald Robertson, who frequents this subreddit, wrote an entire book on the topic. I have just begun reading it myself.