Reddit reviews The Real North Korea: Life and Politics in the Failed Stalinist Utopia

> They can hide things from their own people, not really from the rest of the world. Again, the rest of the world is fully aware of how terrible it is in that country.

That wasn't my point? My point was they deflect attention away from human rights abuses by playing the western media.

> This reply doesn't seem to make any sense. Could you elaborate?

Here's what you said:

> Portraying this as about the movie and not about Americans getting pushed around and being told what they can and cannot do by NORTH KOREA is dishonest.

Which suggests that you think a private company pulling a movie is the same as nation states affecting each other. Unless by American you mean Sony in which case Sony is not even an American company, it's Japanese.

> Please, read what I'm saying and respond to that. You're making points here that are irrelevant. Stuff I never disagreed with or commented on.

I did. Honestly, you didn't make much of a point beyond claiming this is about North Korea "censoring" Americans (it's not) and refusing to believe that the DPRK is a self-aware government that issues global statements as calculated propaganda pieces.

> That is a stretch, to put it mildly. The West engages in this kind of satire all the time.

Because that's exactly how North Korea wants the West to spin it.

> We are still fully aware of the reality. Do you really think Team America came out and people stopped knowing that North Korea was a shit hole? Did the Dictator movie with Sacha Baron Cohen make people think the Middle East was a great place to live?

I never claimed those things. My answer is pretty clear in the stuff you quoted. All the human rights abuses and police state business is swept into the subconscious because the first things that people associate North Korea with are stupid memes and movie villain statements, making them see the regime as a parody of inhumanity that is too ridiculous to be believed.

I'm not interested in trying to change your mind because. It's clear you haven't done any serious research about North Korea. If you really want to get into this, I can start quoting experts on North Korea. To quote Dr. Andrei Lankov, "North Korea is not a bomb." Despite what US officials and even what uninformed academics believe, it is not insane. They know exactly what the response from the West will be when they make these statements.

> Police brutality is something that has been going on for decades to Americans. It reached a boiling point. It always strikes closer to home when it's happening to you. Which easily explains why no one takes to the streets when foreigners are getting tortured or North Koreans are suffering.

Didn't take very much to invade Iraq either, if you want to use that argument. Nor did it take much to start committing US resources to assisting Syrian rebels.

In comparison, there's far less pressure placed on our leaders to deal with North Korea, despite the fact that NATO-friendly allies inhabit the region.

> I wish you would be more intellectually honest. The dishonesty you've just tried here is incredible.

Oh boy.

> Do you really think all 914 million results are about the movie? "the interview" is a pretty fucking common set of words. Guess what? From the 3rd page on, many of the results have nothing to do with the movie at all.

Okay, good point. Google results for The Interview North Korea still nets 163 million. That's nearly twice the number of the CIA torture reports.

> Any article about the issue at all is going to mention the title of the movie. That says nothing about whether the people care about the movie or about being told what they can and cannot watch by North Korea.

If reddit is any indication, this has been a constant talking point for the last few days while the torture report was a flash in the pan.

> Please, try again. I'm sure you're capable of doing better. You don't seem like a total idiot in your posts, but you do seem very agenda driven and dishonest.

Dealing with assholes is not my strong suit. Statements like this don't help.

I was already questioning whether I should have even responded to you in the first place because I recognized you from other threads about North Korea. Just in case you delete this comment:

> Very little sympathy.
> You. Can. Not. Change. North. Korea.
> Especially as one person. Unless you are Kim Jong Un.
> Going there does no one any good. You go there to satisfy your own personal feelings. When you get caught and ransomed like this it only enhances the North Korean position and reduces everyone elses'. Countries have to bend over backwards to retrieve you and give in the NK's blackmail. Meanwhile, North Korea gets to use you as whatever. Hold you up as a spy. Get food and aid to return your dumb self to your actual country.
> What good did you do any body with those acts?

This is about the most dismissive, armchair, straight up asshole things I've ever seen on this website and yet I'm sad to say I'm not shocked you got upvoted for it.

I have personal friends who were saved from concentration camps in the most hellish country on Earth because of people who infiltrated the country. The defectors of the Black Market Generation are raising global awareness and reason they're able to do this in the first place is because of people who entered the country to get them out. North Korea has had to adjust its internal propaganda because of foreigners infiltrating the country and smuggling media from the outside world. Now, experts project that the regime may not last beyond the next 25 years. All this is thanks to the work of the people you're mocking.

But I guess it's easier for you to sit there like a smug prick and tell me that the people who risked their lives to save my friends from a life of torture, starvation, and oppression went there to satisfy their "own personal feelings". I guess you know better than the people who have spent years studying North Korea and devising ways to dismantle the Kim regime, who agree that constant infiltration is the key to breaking down the DPRK.

I could say fuck you but it's Christmas Eve tomorrow. I'll be honest, I'm pretty pissed at what you wrote, but I sincerely hope this makes you examine yourself and consider that maybe what you said is probably the most dickish thing I've read in this sub.

Andrei Lankov, in The Real North Korea published this year, argues the opposite: that any sort of reform in North Korea threatens the stability of the regime and thus the life of the North Korean elite, and thus that the Chinese way to reform is not viable for North Korea.

North Korean journalists can get fired for typos (reference) and the TV journalists are drama grads who are there to be a rather extreme version of Arnab Goswami. So I think North Korea isn't a good example.

I have read some books on North Korea.The followings are some books which may be useful for you:The Real North Korea: Life and Politics in the Failed Stalinist Utopia http://www.amazon.com/The-Real-North-Korea-Stalinist/dp/0199964297 www.amazon.cn/mn/detailApp/ref=asc_df_07425567941222674/?asin=0742556794&tag=douban-23&creative=2384&creativeASIN=0742556794&linkCode=df0 http://www.amazon.cn/mn/detailApp/ref=asc_df_03133817551224294/?asin=0313381755&tag=douban-23&creative=2384&creativeASIN=0313381755&linkCode=df0

On North Korean along with the Vice ones you've already seen I can recommend the following that you can find on Netflix:

Inside North Korea Lisa Ling (sister of Laura Ling, who was trapped in North Korea) travels to North Korea with an eye surgeon who is doing humanitarian work there. There's a really great scene after all of the patients get their bandages unwrapped.

Crossing the Line About Americans who defected to North Korea during the Korean War and live/lived in Pyongyang. Really interesting stuff.

Kim Jong Il's Comedy Club / The Red Chapel This one is about Korean-Danish comedians who go to Pyongyang to do a very peculiar comedy routine. It's full of awkward moments but there's some pretty insightful stuff in there.

A State of Mind I haven't seen this one, and it's not on Netflix, but it's the same director as Crossing the Line (he's earned DPRK's trust and is allowed access for movies). It's about North Korean girls preparing for the Mass Games.

Also two books I would recommend are Nothing to Envy about ordinary citizens lives during the famine of North Korea and The Real North Korea which explains why politically, North Korea has no choice but to continue the current path.

I don't have any recommendations for China, sorry.

His book goes into more detail about the rural peasantry. I just finished it. Great read, as he refuses to make blanket generalizations about any aspect of the country, and goes into lengthy explanations about specific situations.

The rural population is doing fairly well, largely as a result of illegal businesses, which local authorities have, for the most part, simply begun to allow to exist. Lankov explains that to allow them to do very well, like the peasantry of Vietnam and China, would be to invite governmental collapse. Several chapters in the book are devoted to the idea that Kim Jong Un is in a tight spot, because the people want to develop their economy, but that would increase interaction with the outside world, which would cause a revolt. The big secret the NK government is trying to keep right now is just how much better South Korea is doing, economically. The NK population know the south is better off, but they have no idea just how much. They think that the South currently has about twice their wealth, but in exchange for this, they live under the jackboot of the US, and they have sacrificed their national honor. The actual difference is closer to 40-1, and there's very little US interference in the Southerner's lives. This is the great secret that the NK government needs to keep quiet, and more economic development will let the cat out of the bag.