Reddit Reddit reviews Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader: North Korea and the Kim Dynasty

We found 25 Reddit comments about Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader: North Korea and the Kim Dynasty. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.

North Korean History
Korean History
Asian History
Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader: North Korea and the Kim Dynasty
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25 Reddit comments about Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader: North Korea and the Kim Dynasty:

u/bravado · 166 pointsr/nottheonion

Unfortunately during the last famine, “grass cakes” replaced non-existent rice, so compost is likely an extreme luxury in many parts of NK.

Edit: If you want to know waaaaay too much more, read this epic volume

u/[deleted] · 21 pointsr/worldnews

I'm almost finished reading Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader, great book btw. It has numerous tales from defectors a few of whom worked as labourers in Siberia, and these jobs are highly prized among North Koreans. People would bribe a few years salary just to get sent to Siberia and work because they had the opportunity to make 10 times the average North Korean salary there as well as having ample food and decent living conditions. Although in the book some defectors mentioned that once things started getting much worse in North Korea the state started garnishing even more of their wages to the point where some people became unable to pay back the money they borrowed to bribe officials to get the job in the first place. If I remember correctly that was one defector's reason for escaping.

u/FS959 · 17 pointsr/sweden

Jag vet att folk gillar nordkoreansk propaganda, men varför inte läsa något ur en nordkoreans perspektiv istället för samma trötta charterresa? Det bor över 20000 nordkoreaner i Sydkorea, och en majoritet av dem har flytt dit under det senaste decenniet.

Här är några bokrekommendationer:

  • Nothing to Envy: Fokuserar ganska mycket på svältkatastrofen på 90-talet men också många skildringar av vardagen i Nordkorea. Släpptes nyligen på svenska.

  • Escape from Camp 14: Biografi om den enda person som fötts i ett nordkoreanskt koncentrationsläger och lyckats fly landet. Över 200 000 personer tros sitta i dessa läger och Camp 14 är det absolut värsta, i klass med Auschwitz-Birkenau vad gäller grymhet. The Aquariums of Pyongyang handlar om ett annat läger.

  • Några bra böcker som inte är skrivna av/med "avhoppare" (dvs nordkoreanska flyktingar) är The Cleanest Race (om Nordkoreas interna propaganda; väldigt bra för den som undrar "hur de kan tro på det där"), North of the DMZ, och Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader (nästan encyclopedisk bok om nordkoreas historia).
u/SewHappyGeek · 16 pointsr/AskHistorians

Re: the supernatural aspects. It seems this was an evolutionary process. For example, in the early days it was normal to refer to Stalin in NK propaganda and put him on a similar pedestal as KI-S. but as time went on and the policies proved egregious, it became more pressing to present Kim as a sort of spiritual leader/demigod as well. All mentions of Stalin were quietly retired. At the same time, the pictures and stories about Kim start to become more and more godlike - he has supernatural ability to understand what a factory's problems are and solve them in 2 seconds. So things like the story of how he kicked Japanese ass near Mount Pikchu started evolving too, because that further demonstrates how godlike he is and how his destiny was mapped. Then, when KJ-I needed to be groomed for the leadership position, stories about his 'birth at Mount Pikchu' started circulating, and his astonishing output of important Juche/Communist essays started getting larger.

When KJ-I went to uni, he seems to have kept himself aloof and was always intensely private. So he didn't show up in photos, or was largely inconspicuous in the background. But when he was coming to the fore as future leader, suddenly we need to explain why he's not in the centre of the photos!! Ah! We have the answer! He was so humble (echoes of Jesus here?) that he refused to be in the centre, no matter how much his astonished classmates begged him. So they first make a virtue out of it, then that transforms into proof that he's the Chosen One.

So it was a slow process, and probably wasn't intentionally planned or mapped out. Circumstances demanded further 'proof' of why it was absolutely imperative for the Kims to stay in power, and one easy way to do that is take advantage of the fact that the communist ideology had suppressed traditional religion by substituting it with a Kim religion - all the while increasing The Kim political grip on the country as shit gets worse and worse. You should read Bradley Martin's Under the Care of the Fatherly Leader. Also see B. R. Myers The Cleanest Race for a discussion of the propoganda. It's short and scary as hell.

Hope that sets you on the track! It's fascinating and extremely disturbing to read.

Edited for clarity as the kind aubgrad11 pointed out.

u/adamsw216 · 11 pointsr/Art

For Korea in general I took a lot of East Asian history courses, including courses on relations with the west, in college. I studied abroad in South Korea for a time where I studied Korean history (ancient and modern) as well as Korean culture and sociology (mostly South Korea). I also had the pleasure of speaking with someone from North Korea.
But if you're interested to know more, these are some sources I can personally recommend...


u/Niekisch · 9 pointsr/CringeAnarchy

You're right, there are some really interesting-looking areas in Pyongyang, as well as some cool buildings like the Sci-Tech complex or the Great People's Study House. They're almost all concentrated in areas for tourists and Party employees though, and one thing you don't get from pictures is the rot. Everyone who visits North Korea says that even in the tourist areas there's constant signs of decay- stains in the carpets of government buildings, weeds overgrowing the sidewalk, broken lights, plumbing that doesn't work, constant power outages. In Brad Martin's book he describes being shown round a hospital, the staff proudly showing off their medical equipment... some of which was rusty, all of which was out-of-date. The city is a kind of cut-rate Potemkin village.

u/NoStaticAtAll · 9 pointsr/MapPorn

Not an expert by any means, but have read several books on the Korean penisula. Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader is a book mostly about the Kim dynasty, but the first section of the book compares the two Koreas right after the war in an engaging way. Might be a place to start. Hope this helps.

u/whiteskwirl2 · 6 pointsr/worldnews
u/SuperAngryGuy · 5 pointsr/IAmA

Can you please give a general sense of how the South Koreans feel about the North Korean nuclear and missile issue? I imagine being under the US nuclear umbrella lessens the impact of N Korea's activities.

As a quick plug to Redditors interested about N Korea, get this book.

u/kim_jong-un · 3 pointsr/IAmA

Here's a highly regarded book that has many hundreds of pages of interviews from defectors from the DPRK.

Personally, I prefer to shoot them.

u/IphtashuFitz · 3 pointsr/worldnews

Rather than watch the vice guide videos (which only show you the propaganda that the DPRK wants you to see) you should go read books like these:

u/justaddlithium · 3 pointsr/explainlikeimfive

"Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader" is the best book on North Korea that I've ever read. I'd say it's a good place to start.

North Korea was for a time the richer Korea. Here's a nice graph of their approximate GDP per capita.

u/toothball · 2 pointsr/northkorea

I recommend reading Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader. There is a chapter dedicated to this topic, and it is touched upon several times in the book. There is a lot of detail.

u/arthur-righteous · 2 pointsr/history

I also really enjoyed Nothing to Envy.

I would add

'Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader' - Bradley K. Martin

u/d3pd · 2 pointsr/lgbt

>Is it really tyranny if God can forgive anything?

I don't recognise his authority to pass judgement on me. He is a self-appointed adjudicator.

>He never spoke about homosexuality

This is simple cherry-picking. You're dismissing the disgraceful doctrines in Leviticus and accepting the absence of comment on the subject by someone for whom there is no evidence even of existence.

This is actually to your credit. I am not insulting you for being inconsistent, I am giving you credit for being better than the religion.

>I seem to find it a little hard as to how God could be elected. He created the universe

God claims to be in an ultimate position of being judge and jury of people, of whom he claims ownership, and implements eternal torture in a barbaric legal system with no appeals procedure. It is to this position he appoints himself. I do not recognise the right of anyone to hold such a position, especially if it is unelected and undemocratic.

Just as a parent cannot claim ownership of his child or torture it, creating something does not grant you sole judgement of it or ownership of it.

>I think of a dictator as a power-hungry individual who rules alone over a group of people against the interests of the people, and uses immoral tactics to retain power.

A dictator is a ruler who wields absolute authority. What you describe is closer to a tyrant. A dictator holds an extraordinary amount of personal power, especially the power to make laws without restraint by a legislative assembly. A dictator is inherently antidemocratic.

>God rules, for lack of a better word, over us as a benevolent Father

I don't see anything about the rule of God as benevolent and anyone can claim to be your "Father" -- remember Kim Il-sung?

>He acts so that we may benefit forever in Heaven, even sending Himself down as Jesus to die so that we can benefit.

This sounds either like an honour killing or the ravings of a madman.

Quite aside from the antiscientific practices of Christianity and the utter lack of evidence for its supernatural claims, the doctrine of Christianity promotes outrageous ethics and ancient, tribal ideas of retribution. It demands, under threat of torture, that we support the unelected dictatorship of God who has a disgraceful justice system of torture with no appeals procedure. Christianity is an expression of support for a permanent, unelected, unalterable, unquestionable dictatorship, capable of convicting thoughtcrime, demanding unending praise and worship under threat of violence and torture for an eternity after death. This dictatorship claims ownership of people. I do not recognise the right of anyone to own anyone else. This dictatorship is utter and it is horrifying. I don't want it and I don't respect anyone who does. It is a very good thing that there is no evidence for it.

u/haddockcpt · 2 pointsr/northkorea

North Korea through the looking glass

This is one my favorite (below)
North Korea: Paranoid Peninsula, a modern history

Edit: if you can get this from a library, you should
Kim Dynasty

u/jaywalker1982 · 2 pointsr/northkorea

Also, it's on the sidebar, but if you really want to get in depth Under The Loving Care Of The Fatherly Leader is great!

u/NigelLeisure · 1 pointr/History_Bookclub

I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for but Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader: North Korea and the Kim Dynasty was a good read. It is more about the Kim family regime than the creation of NK, although it is addressed in a chapter to some detail.

u/sfasu77 · 1 pointr/WTF

If you guys want to educate yourselves on this fascinating hermit state, read this:

BTW.. he just sentenced his family to death or best case, a life of hard labor.

u/thompsonforsheriff70 · 1 pointr/northkorea

Sorry, wish I could answer your questions but I just found the post on Imgur and put it up. I did live in South Korea myself for the last 3 years as an ESL teacher and had a chance to visit the DMZ between the two countries, did a lot of research as well because I find it so fascinating and tragic that a place like the North can actually exist today. I think the answer to a lot of those questions you asked can be found in the VICE doc. There's one called "Mass Games" that is excellent as well. If you're interested in how the whole cult of personality/communist Kim succession thing took root, the book "Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader" by an American journalist who has visited DPRK several times is excellent.
From what I understand, you see only what they want you to see, you ask only certain questions and get only certain responses. It's all a dog-and-pony show. Korean food is pretty decent, and almost every guy on the peninsula over the age of 16 smokes like a chimney. Hope this info helps!

u/Blitzpull · 1 pointr/worldnews

What world do you live in? Seriously, I would really like to know what deluded fantasy that you live in where this kind of money goes back to the people. It doesn't. You think this tourism helps people, think its help them open their eyes? Well what happens then if their eyes are somehow magically opened by the tourists who they have little to no contact with. Its not like you can walk up to someone and start talking to them, or does somehow the sight of a foreigner open their eyes to over 60 years of continuous brainwashing? But say they are somehow magically opened, what then? They are stuck in a country where their neighbors would rat them out for a hint of dissent, and they and their entire family would be shipped off to concentration camps that would make the Nazis proud.

Are you so fucking naive to believe this actually helps the citizens? Every time we try to give aid to the North, we can't even get the simplest guarantee from them that they would go to the people. They can't even finish their own infrastructures without foreign help, and even if they finish the outside they don't even bother to work on the inside. The vast majority of their spending goes to the military, we know this for a fact, that's why they invest so heavily into nuclear weapons and they actually have been able to accomplish some things (albeit poorly).

Economic liberalization would be helpful to the North for a variety of reasons but this is all tightly controlled, regulated and run by the state. This is not some private enterprise of North Koreans, they are carefully, screened, chosen and watched by a state, whose only purpose is to keep itself afloat and to keep its top people rich off the backs of its own citizens. But this tourism is stupid, especially when people come back with these misguided ideas of "Oh it doesn't look so bad". To think that this benefits anyone other than the state is a complete delusion. If you actually want to learn something about North Korea I would reccomend those books.

u/freemanposse · 1 pointr/history

I used this book. You might look for it in your local library.

u/RepostFromLastMonth · 1 pointr/worldnews

Yes. The older generation that still remembers are in favor of unification, but the younger generations see them as another country, and a burden that they'd have to pay for (in an already highly competitive society). They see them as a massive amount of uneducated and brainwashed refugees they would have to pay for who would not fit into modern South Korean society.

North Koreans do escape and defect to the south. It is not an easy thing for them. They are looked down on by the South Koreans, and they are in a place where the language is different, their skills and credentials are no longer valid (I remember reading an interview with a girl who was a doctor in North Korea, but her credentials were not accepted by places in the South and she had to go back to school).

North Koreans who escape to the South are automatically granted citizenship. Right now, with a trickle of defectors, that is fine. But if the country fell, they would need to keep them sequestered in NK, and then deal with the North's disillusionment as they see how bad they are off compared to the South, and that they will likely never be able to have the lives that the South Koreans have achieved after reunification and the anger that will bring. The issue would reverberate long after, and it may only be the children or grandchildren of those from the North who will finally succeed in the South.

If you are interested in the history of North Korea, I highly recommend reading Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader, which gives a very good and complete history of North Korea from its founding till the 1990's.

After that, I recommend Nothing to Envy, which is a collection of interviews following the lives of six North Korean defectors.

Other Books to read:

  • Dear Leader: Poet, Spy, Escapee--A Look Inside North Korea
  • This is Paradise!: My North Korean Childhood
  • The Real North Korea: Life and Politics in the Failed Stalinist Utopia
  • The Reluctant Communist: My Desertion, Court-Martial, and Forty-Year Imprisonment in North Korea
u/sideways86 · 0 pointsr/AskHistorians

If you're interested in digging deeper on this subject, this is a great book: