Reddit Reddit reviews Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap -- and What Women Can Do About It

We found 36 Reddit comments about Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap -- and What Women Can Do About It. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.

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Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap -- and What Women Can Do About It
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36 Reddit comments about Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap -- and What Women Can Do About It:

u/sammy_glick · 310 pointsr/AskReddit

That the fact that women as a group earn lower wages than men as a group is evidence of massive sexism in America.

My rebuttals, which were brushed aside by a college professor:

  1. Paying the sexes different wages when they do the same job has been illegal since the Equal Pay Act of 1963.

  2. If companies could really hire women to work at 75% of men's wages, every company in America would hire women and reduce their labor costs by 25%.

  3. The main reason women earn lower wages is because women make different decisions about their lives and careers. As Warren Farrell wrote in the New York Times:

    >Don't women, though, earn less than men in the same job? Yes and no. For example, the Bureau of Labor Statistics lumps together all medical doctors. Men are more likely to be surgeons (versus general practitioners) and work in private practice for hours that are longer and less predictable, and for more years. In brief, the same job is not the same. Are these women's choices? When I taught at a medical school, I saw that even my first-year female students eyed specialties with fewer and more predictable hours.

    >But don't female executives also make less than male executives? Yes. Discrimination? Let's look. The men are more frequently executives of national and international firms with more personnel and revenues, and responsible for bottom-line sales, marketing and finances, not human resources or public relations. They have more experience, relocate and travel overseas more, and so on.

    >Comparing men and women with the "same jobs," then, is to compare apples and oranges.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/opinion/05farrell.html

    Farrell's book: http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/0814472109

    A Department of Labor study made similar observations:

    >Although additional research in this area is clearly needed, this study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers.

    http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf
u/tin_machina · 69 pointsr/AskReddit

I dared to contradict a politically correct textbook, and the professor singled me out for ridicule.

The textbook repeated the old claim that women earn 70 cents for doing that same work that earns a dollar for a man, and that this wage gap is due to widespread sexist discrimination.

I said this statistic was broadly accurate (men due tend to earn more) but misleading. It compares all male workers to all female workers, and neglects to factor in things like experience on the job, overtime, etc. When we compare apples to apples -- when men and women have similar training, experience, hours on the job, etc. -- the "wage gap" vanishes.

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/0814472109

u/hillgod · 22 pointsr/business

Every minority at IBM gets a 1% raise. Women are considered a minority. They get paid more for the same work at IBM.

The idea that women make less than males in tech is preposterous. There's ample evidence that firms will go out of their way to recruit women by paying them more. The book Whey Men Earn More talks about all of this in great detail.

u/kagayaki · 13 pointsr/worldnews
u/greenpotato · 11 pointsr/changemyview

Here's one.

Some relevant parts:

> There are observable differences in the attributes of men and women that account for most of the wage gap. Statistical analysis that includes those variables has produced results that collectively account for between 65.1 and 76.4 percent of a raw gender wage gap of 20.4 percent, and thereby leave an adjusted gender wage gap that is between 4.8 and 7.1 percent. These variables include:
>
> - A greater percentage of women than men tend to work part-time. Part-time work tends to pay less than full-time work.
> - A greater percentage of women than men tend to leave the labor force for child birth, child care and elder care. Some of the wage gap is explained by the percentage of women who were not in the labor force during previous years, the age of women, and the number of children in the home.
> - Women, especially working mothers, tend to value “family friendly” workplace policies more than men. Some of the wage gap is explained by industry and occupation, particularly, the percentage of women who work in the industry and occupation.
>
> Research also suggests that differences not incorporated into the model due to data limitations may account for part of the remaining gap. Specifically, CONSAD’s model and much of the literature, including the Bureau of Labor Statistics Highlights of Women’s Earnings, focus on wages rather than total compensation. Research indicates that women may value non-wage benefits more than men do, and as a result prefer to take a greater portion of their compensation in the form of health insurance and other fringe benefits.


I came across that study a while ago, when reading the Washington Post's fact-checking article about an Obama speech. I've seen a whole bunch of other stuff both before and since then, including possible explanations for the few percent that remain unexplained, but I haven't saved all the links. I do vaguely remember skimming through this book, too.

u/Badgerz92 · 9 pointsr/FeMRADebates

>People have been disputing things like the wage gap, college rape stats, etc since before the MRM even became a thing.

You don't even know what the MRM is, because MRAs existed before feminists started talking about college rape stats to begin with. And Warren Farrell wrote the book on the wage gap

u/Gootmud · 8 pointsr/Economics

> There's still a persistent gap of 5-10% even when corrected for position and hours.

Yes, because there are more variables to correct for. Subspecialty. Qualifications. Years on the job. Willingness to travel.

> You looking at the same stats as everyone else?

Probably not. I read Warren Farrell's book, which goes deeper than most of the other analyses I've seen out there. If women are getting nudged, it's into more comfortable jobs that give them better quality of life, while men are getting nudged into more demanding, more dangerous jobs because they can bring home higher pay.

u/TRAPSQUATCH · 6 pointsr/TheRedPill

This sums it up pretty well.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0814472109?pc_redir=1407654181&robot_redir=1


The 77% stat tends to get skewed because men work longer hours, have higher risk careers (think firefighter, etc) and tend to log more in sales based or commission goals due to those longer hours.


A woman can take time off for maternal leave, and tend to have less certifications in their chosen field. Yes, a masters degree is important, but is it relevant to an administrative assistant position?

u/in_a_small_car · 5 pointsr/AskReddit

>why don't women rule the world instead of men?

I have two replies.

First, in many ways, women do rule the world.

here's the proof:

u/SLAPtheSASSYbitch · 5 pointsr/MensRights

Men do not "get paid" more, they choose to EARN more on a playing field that is tilted toward women. Yes, men are more than 17 times more likely to die at work. They constitute a similar percentage of workplace accidents that do not result in death. Yet they take far fewer sick days, make fewer insurance claims, including worker's compensation, and so on (relative to events), meaning women receive a disproportionate share of employer-funded healthcare (government healthcare also, but that's another story), while doing considerably less than a proportional share of the work. Consider the research done at the University of Washington in the Department of Vocational Rehab. If a worker takes paid time off for "carpal tunnel syndrome" there is an overwhelming and statistically significant prediction you can make about the worker: It's a woman. All of those paid days off are funded primarily by men, and enjoyed primarily by women. If perquisites are distributed in this way, one must consider that if women's cash earnings are 2% more per hour, their total compensation, including perks, is much more.

Add to that the fact that women take fewer entrepreneurial risks. While they control more capital than men, they like bonds, not starting new businesses. Of course this moves the average earnings of men up relative to women, but does not indicate they are victims of discrimination. In fact, it could be said to indicate that they take an equal or greater share of the benefits of living in a country where men increase the GDP, pay taxes that provide good schools, safe air travel, and medical research, but they are unwilling to contribute equally in sacrifice and risk.

See this landmark books for a deep investigation of why men don't merely receive more in wages and salaries, but why men EARN more in wages and salaries: http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/0814472109/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1310457878&sr=8-5. Then teach your children the meaning of equality.

u/sportsfan250 · 5 pointsr/The_Donald

The "gender pay gap" issue has been debunked so many times no real academic scholar or serious thinker views this as a legitimate issue. If this is a big issue for you, i strongly suggest you read this book with an open mind.

u/[deleted] · 5 pointsr/MensRights

If you think the earnings gap is a problem that feminists need to protest about you haven't been paying attention. Youtube Amazon

>I'm posting this because I'd like /r/mensrights to embarrass me less, and you have the right idea, more or less. Downvote away.

Don't be a dick.

u/redditbannedmeagain · 4 pointsr/Equality

Warren Farrell, specifically The Myth of Male Power and Why Men Earn More.

u/marktully · 4 pointsr/WTF

Or one could read "Why Men Earn More" by Warren Farrell and actually understand the intersection of gender with capitalism.

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/0814472109/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214242962&sr=8-1

u/MaximusLeonis · 4 pointsr/pics

Wow. You're just completely dishonest in reading anything I wrote to ensure that you're still correct. That link doesn't even address my point. It's apparent women have less promotions and lower wages on average than men.

I only mean to show that this wage gap isn't systematic sexism inherent in the corporate structure of America. If women and men did the exact same work, but women get paid less. Then why would a company even hire men? The difference in pay cannot merely be accounted for by sexism. Even if it was, there are legal protections in place. Even from your article, "I think companies want equality, but they will have to redesign jobs so flex-time and working from home aren't negatives for the fast track, says Ms. Bartel, who has also conducted research on women's presence in senior executive positions".

This quote shows us that a significant reason for this wage discrimination is that women use flex-time and work from home more than men, while men work more hours. Career choices have much more influence over wage than gender. William Farrell has a great book on the subject. You can read a summary on wikipedia.

u/McFeely_Smackup · 3 pointsr/promos

This is an earlier work by Warren Farrell, author of the EXCELLENT book
Why Men Earn More

Both should be required reading for anyone interested in Mens rights and the fabricated victimhood that feminism portrays.

u/VicisSubsisto · 3 pointsr/MensRights

Warren Farrell's Why Men Earn More.

A thorough review from an ex-NOW member who realized that if women really made $0.70 for every $1 men made, any company which didn't hire only women would be driven out of the market due to overhead...

u/asuras1357 · 3 pointsr/metacanada

"Why Men Earn More" by Warren Farrell, PhD

A self-described feminist wrote a reasonably unbiased book exquisitely sourced... on why 'Men Earn More'. The book sums up 25 reasons.

> Farrell clearly defines the 25 different workplace choices that affect incomes–including putting in more hours at work, taking riskier jobs or more hazardous assignments, being willing to change location, and training for technical jobs that involve less people contact–and provides readers with specific, research-supported ways for women to earn higher pay.

Source: Cato Introduction to 'Why Men Earn More'

Because the man is a feminist, he also adds prescriptive lessons for how women can earn more. However, by the end of his book, it becomes clear that there is more than mere misguidance that leads to the pay gap. Men and women make different choices, have different temperaments, and different desires for sociability, which all make them unlikely to heed the author's advice. This is discounting the tail-end men who put in absurd hours and years of commitment to rise to the top of their respective industries, wherein this inclination is far less often seen with women across cultures.

u/kloo2yoo · 3 pointsr/MensRights

>Statement: Women earn a fraction of what men do.

>Source: http://gao.gov/new.items/d0435.pdf

response:

___


You completely rephrased your statement from before.

Your original statement was this:

>women being paid less than men to perform the same jobs,

this is what I refuted, with this challenge:

>If you offer me a solid reference proving that women are being paid more than 10% less FOR IDENTICAL JOBS, WITH THE SAME TIME IN JOB, AND THE SAME NUMBER OF SICK DAYS, I promise I will look at it.

>But you won't.

And you didn't. The GAO report does not show that women in the same jobs, with the same time in job, and the same number of hour worked, are paid less. It explicitly states in bold letters on the first page of the report that work patterns partially explain the difference between mens' and women's earnings.

I determined this by reading the first page of the report, where it said, "Work Patterns
Partially Explain
Difference between
Men’s and Women’s
Earnings "

You have failed here to meet my challenge.

However, by eliminating the challenges:

  1. women are being paid more than 10% less

  2. FOR IDENTICAL JOBS,

  3. WITH THE SAME TIME IN JOB,

  4. THE SAME NUMBER OF SICK DAYS,


    you created your own challenge and met it.

    Here's a book for you:
    http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/0814472109

    Even the AAUW cites a differing amount if time at work and time in job as significant factors in the wage gap:

    http://www.aauw.org/research/behindPayGap.cfm

    THis looks at the AAUW study closer, and finds flaws in
    http://feck-blog.blogspot.com/2009/09/pay-gap-persists-women-still-make-less.html

    This report by CONSAID, included this statement from in the a forward. this statement was from the US Department of Labor:

    > However, despite these gains the raw wage gap continues to be used in misleading ways to
    advance public policy agendas without fully explaining the reasons behind the gap.


    http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

    (CONSAID did the research, US Dept. of Labor provided the forward.)

    and look at this:

    >"At any given level of the career hierarchy, women are paid slightly more than men with the same background, have slightly less income uncertainty and are promoted as quickly," it concludes. "We concluded that the gender pay gap and differences in job rank in this most lucrative occupation is explained by females leaving the market at higher rates than males."

    Quoting a Carnegie Mellon University study.
    http://feck-blog.blogspot.com/2009/09/pay-gap-persists-women-still-make-less.html

u/dasubermensch83 · 3 pointsr/TrueReddit

> If we could acknowledge that good people can unwittingly be part of a bad system, so that we could tackle the systemic issues without pointing fingers, then we could make some progress

Strong finish, and I hope we can all hop aboard that train. That said, time for some form finger pointing. (haha, apologies, sarcasm :-)

> The fact that the pay gap exists at all is a problem that needs solving.

The whole premise of the article is that there is no gap in pay, only differences in how one chooses to work. Apparently, studies show that men work longer hours, in more dangerous, uncomfortable jobs, and prioritize their job over family. Source: OP's article, and [this] (http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/0814472109) book, which I read ages ago. Yes, the title is highly unfortunate, may even strike one with modest sensibilities as grotesque. Its important to not that the author - a man - was once a prominent feminist, but who later because a Men's Rights Activist? Puke. I hate that term. It shouldn't have to exist, except for the unfortunate fact that it may have to soon.

All I'm saying is that much of the data in the article above is either old news; or else a better, more accurate analysis of old news (one should hope).

You may enjoy [this] (http://www.amazon.com/Why-Never-Remember-Women-Forget-ebook/dp/B001LF3YHE/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396987980&sr=1-1&keywords=why+men+never+remember) book as a way of approaching a common ground. I found it fascinating, and its been one of the most helpful books I've ever read.

In it you will find that there are very good reasons why a man is 4 times more likely to bargain over salary, and why a vast majority of engineers are men. It has far less to do with power structures or discrimination, and more to do with what testosterone does to the hominid brain. Most great mathematicians are male, and probably always will be. So also, most great serial killers and psychopaths are male, and always will be. In a vacuum, males will more naturally enjoy activities such an engineering, gaming, gambling, doing drugs, and other risky behavior. The reason for all of these attributes? Testosterone's impact on the brain! Dont believe me? Look it up!

Women use FAR more unique words per unit time, are FAR better in social situation, and, in my option, are the better half of humanity.

Buuuut, men and women are really fucking different! And, there are reasons for this. There are inherent differences between people, and the sexes. That's just the way it is.

Now, how does all of this all relate to creating a fair and equitable society? That is the tough part, and is open for debate.

As per this issue of why a "pay gap" exists. After reading this articles - and ones like it for the umpteenth time - I think its okay to entertain the idea that maybe the "pay-gap" has at least something to do with the inherently different choices either sex is likely to make.

Edit: spelling




u/StarDestinyGuy · 2 pointsr/politics

For those interested in learning more about the earnings gap, and how it's not a result of discrimination but rather is a result of the different choices men and women make in their lives, I recommend reading the book Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap -- and What Women Can Do About It.

u/UghtheBarbarian · 1 pointr/Documentaries

At the end of the day, women and women alone bear the decision to have a child so long as they have access to abortions. Men are not allowed, nor should they be allowed, to decide for a woman if she should bear a child or not. If she chooses adoption, all costs are paid by the parents. If she chooses to have a child, and if she chooses to include the father in that child's life (choices she alone makes) then the father must by law pay for a portion of the cost of that child.

I do think that single parenthood is an burden more so on the mother in most cases. This is one area we still need work on for both men and women, I agree. I personally am a proponent of a single payer health care system, which would mitigate the prenatal and OB issue altogether. But until that happens, health care will cost more for women because women cost more to maintain their health on average. If you don't like that then you have to overhaul the insurance industry to make everyone pay the same regardless of genetics. So the person with huge amounts of preexisting conditions due to genetics would pay the same as a very healthy person.

The book Why Men Earn More by Warren Ferrel has all the information you could ever want on the Wage Gap Myth. I did agree that a small number (around 5% I believe) is due to unknown causes which could be bias. But when you account for all other metrics, the 75 cents on the dollar is blown out of the water. We have laws making it illegal to discriminate against women, we have every ability to contest when we are paid less. It is our job as women to demand we get paid what we are worth, just as men tend to do.

The IWPR link was exactly the methodology I explained, and the gap is 80%. Median of all workers. That does not take into account career choices, hours worked, time off, education, etc.

IN the second link this quote is telling:
> And even in 2014, women and men still tend to work in different kinds of jobs. This segregation of occupations is a major factor behind the pay gap.

So again, boiling down to women's choices. And again, this report depended on median income alone, although they did at least break it down to basic industries. But again, we do not know all those mitigating factors which make a worker more valuable to a company.

Third source is the same. These are not telling us much of anything. The studies are too broad to be of use.

Interesting link about choices "A new survey from PayScale this morning finds that the wage gap nearly evaporates when you control for occupation and experience among the most common jobs, especially among less experienced workers."

I would certainly be interested in the residual pay gap especially at the top and take it seriously if we started the conversation on a national level with the actual facts. But the pervasive 75 cents on the dollar just won't die in the national consciousness even though it is absolute bunk.

My bottom line on wage gap- the sniff test. If it were truly so easy to save 25% of the costs of hiring someone, why would anyone hire a man? Business is all about the bottom line. If truly you could save that much money (we are probably talking billions of dollars for some companies) why on earth would they not be taking advantage of this? You think they are so sexist they are unwilling to save a ton of money? I think you underestimate most businesses joy of money.



Yes, there are far more men in politics, I never said otherwise. Nothing is stopping women from entering politics except their own choices. Women do not run for politics in very large numbers and women do not vote for other women in large numbers. This is not patriarchy, it is women's choices.

Women control the same amount of income in the US as men, so money is not stopping them. Yes, there probably is an old boys network among the older politicians, but there are enough women and progressives around to give a hand up to anyone interested in trying. The republican party is practically begging women to join, they flaunt every women politician they have in order to try to seem more supportive of women, even though they are obviously not in many ways.




u/civilianjones · 1 pointr/AskReddit

There are a lot of factors involved in the wage gap. http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/0814472109

I love being my gender because of the higher incarceration rate! er, what?

u/_Johnny_Fever_ · 1 pointr/AskReddit

yeah, it's sexist and unfair.

but as you get older you'll discover that women bitch & moan only about double-standards that work against them.

>I sometimes hear the complaint that women only make .80 cents to the men's dollar

this isn't exactly true. women as a group tend to earn less than men as a group. but that's mainly because women tend to make different career choices than men. men work more overtime, for example and prefer more cash, while women prefer lower wages to more comfortable conditions and better fringe benefits. when men & women have the same levels of dedication, training, expertise, experience, etc, they earn almost exactly the same wages in the same careers. more info in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/0814472109

u/VillageSlicker · 1 pointr/ottawa

> Women are statistically more likely to depend on their husband's wealth because (surprise surprise you moron) WOMEN MAKE LESS MONEY.

Hypergamy

> A woman with no money of her own is either homeless or somebody's wife. If she's convicted of a crime it's usually because she was an accomplice.

Married women don't have agency or free will, then? Okay. You're also forgetting that women have priority in social housing queues, especially if they have kids. All kinds of unmarried women, with or without kids, in geared-to-income social housing. Oh, I get it. Leaving a criminal's house to spend a couple months in a shelter before getting her own place just isn't an option. Better to have the criminal buy you shiny things, then play stupid or fake-cry in the courtroom than have morals, I guess.

> employment status of the husband in a relationship is the single outsize factor in predicting divorce.

Husband is required to be breadwinner, to maintain the hypergamous status of the relationship, and is disposed of as soon as this is lost. So far, you're doing a great job of upholding traditional gender roles, and positioning women as the weaker sex who can't make their own decisions. Well, aside from the part where the woman keeps half or better of the assets in a divorce, and bleeds the rest out through alimony and/or child support.

> You may find a screenshot from /pol/ or an article on Breitbart that claims to disprove it, but adults have accepted the wage gap is reality.

Nice Drumpfy Drumpf poltard projection. Here's a whole book by an adult.

> peer-reviewed study

I've seen enough of RealPeerReview to know that "peer-reviewed" in the social sciences doesn't mean shit. American Association of University Women? Yeah, no bias there. I like the part where their CEO is a fucking white male, though.

So, literally stop. I'm embarassed for you when you simultaneously cry about the "wage gap" and expect it to persist for your benefit.

u/DavidByron2 · 1 pointr/redflag

Most of the reporting you see on this stuff tends to ignore most factors which would tend to explain differences in income for different work. So it's a god of the gaps argument that you are (unwittingly?) making. If we take into account one or two things the "gap" shrinks, if we take account one or two more it shrinks further, if we take account of five or six there's maybe 5% left. And then we stop because that way leads to trouble.

So Warren Farrel identified about 20-30 factors to take into account. This included some that even by themselves reduced the gap's size of the order of over 90%. Obviously there's a lot of overlap. The point is that no study has attempted to do what you say and take into account, "all the other factors". Not even close. The studies don't even take into account the factors which are greatest in reducing the gap.

As a result your figure of 10% or so was pure bullshit. Mine was too; the data just isn't there. However the end result is certainly in favour of women because women have a greater value than men as employees because of the various anti-male laws feminists have introduced. You can certainly find some studies that result in a negative wage gap although it's usually more like 2%, but for the most part the research here is chasing ghosts. Indeed literally it uses the same technique as ghost hunters: throw out a few sensible sounding ideas for a phenomena, then after rejecting them say "therefore the answer must be ghosts" as an explanation for any remaining phenomena.

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/0814472109

The single factors that tend to explain almost the entire gap by themselves tend to be something along the lines of comparing like with like as to family earning responsibilities. That is to say childless unmarried men and women tend to earn the same. Once people get married and have kids women choose to earn less and force the men to pick up the slack by earning more. So the pay gap is essentially a result of anti-male discrimination forcing men to work harder to support women's choices.

As a result you get odd results of things like black women earning more than white women (if you take into account education level) and lesbians out-earning straight women. I would explain these results in terms of the responsible-to-earn for someone else's consumption factor.

Hmm. Hard to find a nice link to a study on this one factor. But it typically knock out over 90% just by itself. These days if you Google those terms you get the various studies showing how much more young women are earning compared to young men. Of course that's mostly because women are 60% more likely to go to college.

-----
ETA: Also the wage gap is smaller in developing countries than in the West. As a general rule of thumb the better off you are in terms of privilege, the less you can afford to earn, which is why white women have the biggest "gap" of all. The entire topic misrepresents privilege as a oppression, which is exactly what you need to do if you're a feminist of course.

-----
ETA: Yeah I can't find any nice reports on family responsibility as a factor (usually it's referred to as "unmarried, childless"). It was common enough 20 years ago but these days the search results get swamped by by the stories of YOUNG and "unmarried, childless" women earning about 8% more than men. But as I say this is really more because women are getting college degrees far more than men are due to the massive amount of sex discrimination in education in the USA (though these results hold all over the English speaking world). maybe you'll have better luck if you want to pursue it.

u/amIharaam · 1 pointr/TwoXChromosomes

Read this: http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/0814472109

There is no systematic discrimination against women with respect to pay in the US today.

u/zeppo_shemp · 1 pointr/personalfinance

the salary gap is a myth because:

(a) it's been illegal for a company to pay men and women different salaries for doing the same job since the Kennedy administration.

(b) if business could really get away with paying women 70% of a man's salary, then businesses would hire 100% female crews given that labor is by far the largest expense for most businesses.

(c) the pay gap myth is based on the a logical error called "the ecological fallacy". in short, information that accurately describes groups does not necessarily apply to each individual in that same group. for example, most pro basketball players earn higher than average salaries (true). most basketball players are also taller than average (true). but from this accurate facts, you can't conclude that all taller than average people earn higher salaries than average.

(d) there is a pay gap between men and women. but the gap is not due to discrimination or sexism. instead, men and women make different career choices that tend to lead to higher salaries for men and lower salaries for women. for example, women tend to prefer lower salaries but more stable working hours, less travel, better fringe benefits. men tend to do more traveling, have unpredictable working hours (e.g., commission sales) and want more cash and fewer fringe benefits. men tend to work more hours overall, something like 45hrs/week while women work an average of about 37hrs/week.

for example, there was a claim years ago that male doctors earn more than female doctors. however, a closer look at the data showed that male M.D.s tended to work very different jobs from female M.D.s For example, men were more likely to be on call for high risk medicine (e.g., trauma surgeons) while women MDs were more likely to work steady office hours with lower risks. (e.g., pediatricians). after adjusting for those variables, there was no pay gap. male and female pediatricians earned the same pay; male and female trauma surgeons earned the same pay.

when you compare men and women in the same company, who do the same work, with the same seniority, same qualifications, same productivity, etc, men and women earn salaries within about ~3% of each other.

the pay gap is largely a feminist myth that's used to make women feel like victims.

read this book for more info on the subject: https://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/0814472109

short intro here: http://www.warrenfarrell.net/Summary/

u/kanuk876 · 0 pointsr/Economics

Warren Farrell wrote an entire book on the subject: "Why Men Earn More".

u/Peysh · 0 pointsr/france

> qui s'exprime à la fois économiquement (salaires)

Déjà partons de là, ce n'est plus vrai. Il n'y a pas de différences de salaire entre hommes et femmes aujourd'hui, l'INSEE mesure aux alentours de 3-4% une fois retraité des différences de secteur, ancienneté, temps de travail, etc. C'est pareil partout en fait. Why Men Earn More, réponse courte, parce qu'ils prennent plus de boulots que personne ne veut faire, à des horaires à la con, dans des jobs relou.

La preuve irréfutable de ça, c'est que si les femmes étaient 20% moins chères que les hommes pour le même travail, dans un monde capitaliste aucune entreprise n'en profiterait pas massivement et il n'y aurait plus que des femmes employées.

Tu vois, ça part déjà en ovaire. Pourquoi est ce que les femmes veulent, plus que les hommes, s'occuper des enfants, de leur famille, ou d'elles mêmes, quitte à y sacrifier quelque chose qu'elles considèrent comme moins important ? Est ce qu'elles veulent plus s'occuper des enfants ? Est ce que c'est un impératif social ? Biologique ? Réponds à ça t'auras déjà une partie de la vérité. Spoiler, c'est parce qu'elles le veulent.

Les femmes font pourtant de bien meilleures études que les garçons, elles sont environ 70% à réussir médecine, idem en droit, et dans pas mal de professions intellectuelles supérieures. Elles sont systématiquement devant au bac. Dans les banlieues ça monte à 30% de réussite au BAC au dessus des garçons. Ce sont elles qui choisissent leur propre vie.

A New York, les femmes en dessous de 30 ans sont mieux payées que les hommes tout postes confondus. Du fait des meilleures études. C'est au premier enfant que ça commence à changer.

Alors bien sur, le 0.1 % des postes comme dirigeant d'une boite du CAC40 ou vieux ponte dans je ne sais quelle commission reste l'affaire d'une vieille garde de vieux croulants et d'hommes tellement toxiques pour leur famille que de toutes façons personne n'en voudrait. De l'autre côté les hommes sont aussi immensément majoritaires dans la population de SDF.

Bref, ce n'est pas parce que ce mouvement part d'un postulat faux et qu'il censure tout ce qui ne va pas dans son sens que ça en fait la vérité. Ce n'est pas parce que vous vous polissez de la merde à longueur de journée (l'oppression systémique de la femme) entre vous que ça se met à sentir bon. C'est juste un peu plus luisant.

u/theandycc · 0 pointsr/AskWomen

The pay gap is almost entirely explained by a combination of all listed factors, not just family.

> AAUW’s The Simple Truth about the Gender Pay Gap succinctly addresses these issues by going beyond the widely reported 77 percent statistic.

Nice! So do we get to hear what the real gap is, rather than the grossly, disgustingly misleading 77%? A couple of inches down the page:

> In 2012, as in 2002, among full-time, year-round workers, women were paid 77 percent of what men were paid.

Nope.

The idea of a pay gap for equivalent work doesn't really hold water. If women were paid less for equivalent work, companies would aggressively hire women because that would cut their costs. For most companies, wages are a significant % of total costs.

Warren Farrell's book Why Men Earn More sums it up:

> Men work longer hours at more dangerous and disagreeable jobs. They more readily accept night shifts, hardship postings to Alaska and entrepreneurial risks. Men get in-demand degrees in engineering, while women get degrees in French literature. Female librarians earn less than garbagemen, not because of discrimination, but because so many applicants compete for the safe, clean, comfortable, convenient, fulfilling jobs women prefer. Indeed, the author insists, statistics show that women and men with equal experience and qualifications, doing the same job, for the same hours, under the same conditions-get paid the same.