Reddit reviews Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers, Third Edition

Guy here. Large guy. Nonviolent by nature but quite capable of taking care of myself... and I, too, find violent outbursts disturbing. As others have said, it's primal. My stress levels go way up: focus, alert, am I going to have to defuse this, am I going to have to stop an attack, am I going to have to hurt someone. Fight-or-flight—and I'm one of the lucky ones because I have the fight option. I can only imagine what it must be like for those who don't.

You are directly inflicting stress on people. Stress is not good for the human body. It also takes time to return to baseline, and bad things often happen during the hormone decay time. Frequent unpredictable outbursts are a recipe for an unhappy life. I choose to avoid violent people in my life. It sounds like the people in your life are making that choice too.

I GOT THIS, I GOT THIS ONE. Ok, so, I've been studying effects of chronic stress in humans and wildlife (mostly wildlife) full time since 1990. Really crudely: chronic stress is basically a state of too much cortisol/corticosterone for too long a time. (this is oversimplifed - other hormones are involved too - but let's leave it at that) Cortisol & corticosterone are two closely related hormones that are released from the adrenal gland to deal with "stressors", meaning, challenges that are threatening the body in some way - anything from a physical challenge like freezing temperatures or starvation, to a perceived social challenge like social stress, uncertainty, etc. (epinephrine's also involved but to a lesser degree, since epinephrine is broken down very rapidly by the liver.)

So here's the thing. DURING A SHORT TERM EMERGENCY, CORT IS GOOD, since it helps your body deal with the stressor. It diverts energy toward keeping blood glucose up and feeding it to your brain and a few other organs; it also increase blood pressure and reduces insulin sensitivity in several tissues. It affects your brain so that you stay alert, memorize whatever's happening, and redirects behavior toward "emergency/escape" behaviors. Finally it shuts down nonessential things you don't need immediately - digestion, reproduction, growth, tissue maintenance - so that you can focus on getting away.

All that is good in the short term. It's in the LONG TERM that high cort starts causing serious problems. Because shutting down "nonessential" activities may be survivable short term, but is extremely detrimental long term (I am valiantly resisting pointing out an obvious political metaphor) Examples:

• Cort raises blood glucose and decreases insulin sensitivity. Long term effect: thought to increase insulin resistance and potential diabetes risk. There's a really intriguing hypothesis that it's heavily involved in metabolic syndrome, which in turn is thought to lead to high blood pressure and obesity as well as diabetes; the idea is that metabolic syndrome might actually be a mild form of Cushing's syndrome, aka too much cortisol. See here and here.
  
  
• Cort affects the brain, changes alertness and alters behavior. Long term effect: cortisol has a strange and consistent effect in lots of species impairing long-term memory and shrinking the hippocampus. Example, rats and humans. Cool bird example: if you give cort to a kittiwake chick (a kind of gull), it switches to aggressive emergency behavior, but a week later it is having trouble memorizing where food is hidden, and 8 months later is worse than controls in finding its way out of little mazes (ref). There's also a persistent textbook citation that cort causes outright neuron death though imho there hasn't been enough study on that.
  
  
• Cort shuts down the immune system. (this is actually an extremely complicated interaction but I'm not going to go there) You know that "hydrocortisone anti-itch cream" you buy in drugstores? That stuff is pure cortisol, and the reason it works is that cortisol inhibits inflammation, along with every other aspect of the immune system. Long term problems include: reduced white blood cell count (we just confirmed this in a new taxon, sea turtles) and pronounced susceptibility to infectious disease. (tangent: one of the great problems we have when wildlife die after [say] an oil spill is that the animals often die later via infectious disease, really because of high cort, but the lawyers do not recognize that chain of events and will conclude that the animals died of a "different cause" than the oil spill.) There's a persistent, difficult-to-test hypothesis that prolonged high stress is involved in development of cancer, reviewed here, here, here.
  
  
• Cort shuts down reproduction. Long term problems: this varies from subtle ones like reduced sperm count, reduced testosterone in males, reduced estrogen in females, reduced chance of conception (there's persistent, intriguging correlations of stress and human infertility) to dramatic impacts like menstrual cycle completely stopping, or out-and-out miscarriage.
  
  
• Cort shuts down digestion. Long-term problems: you get gradual loss of tissue maintenance throughout the digestive tract, e.g. enzymes aren't produced as much, mucus lining isn't produced as much, small damage sites aren't fixed as rapidly, and ultimately you can end up with conditions like irritable bowel syndrome and even ulcers. (before anyone asks: ulcers were once thought to be entirely caused by stress, then were shown to really be caused by Helicobacter pylori but now it appears that what may be happening is that it's a combination: stress enables a resident population of H. pylori to get out of control.)
  
  
• Cort shuts down growth & tissue maintenance. Long term problems: Most dramatically, "stress-induced dwarfism" in highly stressed children (refugees, abused kids, even if they had lots to eat). We're looking at this right now in young stressed sea turtles. In adults you get slowed wound healing and a generally reduced ability to heal, strengthen or repair any tissue.
  
  All the above occur in just about every species that's been studied, from mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians and fishes.
  
  tl;dr - Prolonged chronic stress has pronounced detrimental effects on almost every aspect of health, in virtually all vertebrates that have been studied.
  
  cites: My entire Endnote library. I will post some more specific cites if I have time. For a good all-around intro: the best all-around general public book on this remains Sapolsky's "Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers" - a bit outdated now but has stood the test of time surprisingly well.
  
  PS forgot to mention that, since you asked about a pregnant woman "and her baby", there some interesting epigenetic effects in which stress during pregnancy programs the fetus's stress-response system so that its behavior and cortisol responses are permanently altered for its entire life. Example: Stress a pregnant sheep for just 2 days and years later her adult offspring exhibit insulin resistance and cardiovascular disease, example here

You aren’t stupid. My degrees are in psychology & neuroscience. Let me tell you what your body is doing right now.

All of the stress from your home is causing your body to dump stress hormones (glucocorticoids) into your system. Basically, this system is designed to work for short-term, dangerous situations. Think: Running from a cheetah on the savanna stress, not long-term abuse. In 20 minutes, you’ve either escaped or you’re dead, but either way it’s over.

The glucocorticoids basically divert resources to help you move & be physically ready. As such, a part of your brain, called the hippocampus, is deprived of nutrients. This part of the brain is critical for forming memories. This is why people can have poor recall of very traumatic events.

You are under constant stress, and you can’t get out. And you are trying to study? Of course it’s difficult. Your body is fighting you. The fact is, you won’t know what you can do until you get out of that situation. I predict that you will find that you are smarter and more creative than you think. Survivors generally are, and you are a survivor.

If you want to learn more, check out this fabulous book. And if you ever get to hear him speak, you should do it. He’s amazing, with a great research program & story.

Sapolsky's "Why Zebras Don't get Ulcers" goes into why forcing mixed groups is harmful. Want to stress the fuck out of a monkey? Put him with a group that's not his own.

The first time I went to Europe I landed in Amsterdam and in the airport even I felt like I had landed at a family reunion. I was palpably happier. I'm not some cranky fucking racist, it's natural.

There's a book about this called something zebras something ulcers. steps away to Google it... Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers and it talks about how most animals can just be while humans just get too fucking preoccupied about shit that isn't even gonna affect them. Like for example, I'm stressed the fuck out watching all these people try to put their lives back together after these hurricanes, but I live in California. Zebras don't give a shit if their mom gets eaten by a lion, they just run like a bitch, and if there's no lion, they're like "fuck life is good bruh isn't this fucking grass amazing" even though it's the same fucking grass they always eat.

Side note: 10 points for me for being one of those twats that references books in their post that neither you nor I will ever read.

For further reading, check out Robert Sapolsky's Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers.

Edit: Fixed link.

I suspect the actual reason for this is the reduced stress one experiences through moderate alcohol consumption, not the ethanol itself. I have nothing to support my hypothesis, but ethanol is just another macronutrient, it's not magic. But reducing stress is an extremely powerful force.

Basically, we're wired for occasionally bursts of stress for survival, but many aspects of modern life trigger stress response with frequency and duration that is unhealthy.

Documentary that covers the main ideas -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYG0ZuTv5rs

Book -
http://www.amazon.com/Zebras-Dont-Ulcers-Third-Edition/dp/0805073698

Compartmentalize it. Have a ritual when you come home from work, maybe a shower, meditation, etc. that let's you mentally separate it from the rest of the day. If you can, keep a private journal at work or at home before you do your cleansing ritual.

Why Zebras don't get ulcers has a pretty good scientific approach, too.

If you want to delve into layman level reading on this sort of thing, look up books and videos by Robert Sapolsky. The book Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers will teach you a lot about chronic stress, and why it's a bad thing.

Stress in and of itself is not bad, but chronic, prolonged bouts of the stress response, leads to a lot of issues. There are a plethora of physiological things going on, so it's sort of beyond the scope of this one post for me to list all of it, hence why I'm pointing you towards something to read on the layman level.

You can also read up on glucocorticoids.

EDIT: Just 'cause I like when people link me to stuff (I know the laziness, it is strong in us all), here:


Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers

Monkeyluv: And Other Essays on Our Lives As Animals

The Trouble With Testosterone

The Brain That Changes Itself

The first three are R. Sapolsky, who is amazing. He also has a bunch of video lectures online you can find. I have to go do stuff now, so I can't go link to those, but they should be easy to locate on YouTube.

The last book is one that deals with neuroplasticity stuff, which is what you seem to be interested in, speaking on the malleability of the brain and all that. It's fascinating stuff, I know - that's what got me to pursue neuroscience all those years ago.

If you have anymore questions, or want more resources, just ask - I have a ton of stuff bookmarked or on harddrives, just have to set aside time to locate it.

Check out this book https://www.amazon.com/Why-Zebras-Dont-Ulcers-Third/dp/0805073698

Have you been very stressed recently?

edit:

This was a reply to a PM but I posted for relevance.

Yeah man, I'm quite familiar with all that stuff but thanks. BTW, I've spent hundreds of dollars on probiotics and was on them for a couple years, now I think they're a waste of money. I came across a scientist that explained how the probiotic industry is largely a scam with fake studies. They can actually hinder the repopulation of your native bacteria. I've been battling this thing for many years and have researched extensively. There's probably nothing you could tell me that I don't know all about. Water fasting is the best. The only thing I haven't tried is fecal transplant.

As long as I follow my strict diet the symptoms go away eventually. I've healed myself completely a few times and even became a crossfit addict for a couple years. But I slipped after losing my dog and started binging again. Also lost hope in finding a decent woman ever. Gained 35 lbs and got a drinking problem. Then I discovered TRP. I've lost almost all the weight now and getting back in shape. Five more pounds to lose. I'm over crossfit and use Gold's gym for strength training and do a lot of mountain biking and trail running.

There's also a psychosomatic component as well. I recommend reading Robert Saplosky's Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers

Back to OP's post, my woman ditched on me when I was sick and needed her support for the first time in over six years. She fucked me over and flaunted her new man in my face. I lost my shit and almost committed a felony a few times. I supported her completely for many years, put her through school, payed off her debt and bought her an SUV. As soon as I became week she kicked me in the balls and tore out my heart. I thought I knew her but I was naive about the true nature of women. I will never make that mistake again.

Hitchens left the party (a.k.a. Life) too early. How I miss that man.

Thanks for your contribution, btw. Will have a gander at Pinker's book after finishing this one here.

Oh, I have a bunch of recommendations.

First, I really think you should read Elkhonon Goldberg's The New Executive Brain. Goldberg was the student of neuropsychology legend Alexander Luria. He was also a good friend of Oliver Sacks, whose books are both informative and highly entertaining (try The Man who Mistook his Wife for a Hat).

I also think Jeff Hawkins' On Intelligence is a great read. This book focuses on the neocortex.

I think you'll also appreciate Sapolsky's Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers. Sapolsky is a great storyteller. This book is a pretty good primer on stress physiology. Stress affects the brain in many ways and I'm sure this book will be very eye-opening to you!

More suggestions:

The Age of Insight and In Search of Memory by Eric Kandel are good. The Tell-Tale Brain and Phantoms of the Brain by Ramachandran are worth checking out. If you are interested in consciousness, you should check out Antonio Damasio and Michael Graziano. And Giulio Tononi and Gerald Edelman.

If you're up for a challenge I recommend Olaf Sporn's Networks of the Brain and Buzsáki's Rhythms of the Brain.

that is from an amalgam of studies in one of my favorite books to explain it, http://amzn.com/0805073698

oh there is a free podcast

https://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/health-library/id385662825?mt=10

number 111.

Einstein's books about relativity written by Einstein for the non-expert
-Helps you understand not only his theories well, but piques your interest in science a lot, and improves your way to approach all problems. His essays (in particular The World As I See It, be careful of edited versions on the internet which cut out parts they don't like about God, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y0_aNvH0Wo) are amazing as well.
http://www.amazon.com/Relativity-The-Special-General-Theory/dp/1619491508/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1347758889&sr=8-3&keywords=einstein+relativity


Middlesex By Jeffrey Eugenides
-A novel, Pulitzer Prize winner in fiction (called the great american epic), will increase your understanding of those with LGBTQ considerations, but mostly an amazing book
http://www.amazon.com/Middlesex-Novel-Oprahs-Book-Club/dp/0312427735/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1347759265&sr=1-1&keywords=middlesex

Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers By Robert Sapolsky
-Entertaining book, will increase your knowledge of a whole lot of things, and increase your interest in psychology and statistics. Also Freakanomics by Levitt/Dubner and Outliers/Blink by Malcolm Gladwell. All good to get your foot in the door to approach the complicated world we live in logically.
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Zebras-Dont-Ulcers-Third/dp/0805073698/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1347759102&sr=1-1&keywords=why+zebras+dont+get+ulcers

Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! by Richard Feynman
--Autobiography of a nobel prize winning physicist, very funny. Will (again) demonstrate how a brilliant person approach the world. Very funny and easy read.
http://www.amazon.com/Surely-Feynman-Adventures-Curious-Character/dp/0393316041/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1347759305&sr=1-1&keywords=Richard+P.+Feynman

Kind of a Baader-Meinhof phenomenon thing - I just ordered Robert Sapolsky's Why Zebras don't get Ulcers (link to Amazon) about 20 minutes ago.

Edit: identified link destination

Could be a bunch of things. I am not an evolutionary biologist or psychologist, I'm speculating, take it with a grain of salt, blah blah blah.

Behaviors associated with higher cortisol and in turn comorbid with syndromes like anxiety and depression tend to be energy-conserving. Depressing environmental cues like lack of sunlight, cramped and unwelcoming indoor environments or barren outdoor ones could signal wintery periods when not as much food would be available. Sexual function is downregulated, presumably because it burns some energy for the individual and could burn a lot more if a pregnancy was induced at an inconvenient time. Eating habits can be disrupted - some depressed people eat a lot more, some way less than when in a more level emotional state. Some depressed people spend an unusual amount of time resting or sleeping, although stress and rumination can keep you awake long hours too so maybe that's neither here nor there.

As you move from the lower-level biochemical sort of effects towards more integrated psychological kind of functioning, depression can also be somewhat self-preserving in extremely hostile environments. If there's something legitimate to be scared of or that you don't feel like you can deal with outside, staying inside in bed might be an advantageous decision. If every social interaction ends painfully, you'll learn not to engage in them, even though in most circumstances it's probably not good for your long term health not to. See learned helplessness for more about how and why this could be happening.

Moving from a B.F. Skinner type of behavioral level to the cognitive, depression and related ways of thinking can be a sort of defense mechanism against facing psychological turmoil that you're in denial about or don't believe in your ability to handle. Sounds straightforward and you might be able to catch other people doing it, but if it's happening to you you probably won't notice or would even refuse to believe it if it was pointed out to you - your mind can be infuriatingly good at protecting its status quo. Even habits that have really obviously bad outcomes can be preferable to facing the unknown if you lack a sense of self-efficacy or if you're so identified with things being the way that they are that you can't see yourself bridging that gap to a better way of thinking and living, and I mean see it at least as much in terms of subconscious processes and emotional functioning as I do something that you consciously believe about yourself. This guy is one example of a psychologist that talks quite a bit about this type of process.

I guess I probably got these ideas mostly from Robert Sapolsky, in particular his book Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers.

His most-known work, in its third edition (but sorely in need up an update, the last being in 2004, probably because he was writing another book for the last decade that just came out and he's insanely busy as a primatologist and neuroendocrinologist), is the monumental Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers, which is the best book on stress that exists. He's an extremely gifted writer, and you don't even notice that he's citing at least one study per page given the clarity and wit of his writing. He has a few other books of essays, The Trouble With Testosterone (the trouble is it's misunderstood to be a cause of aggression, when really it's much more complicatedly part of what you call a "permissive effect", increasing aggression after it's already triggered through increasing the action potentials of a part of the brain called the strias terminalis, which goes from the amygdala to the hypothalamus), Monkeyluv, and also a memoir on his work with baboons in Africa (which he does for a few months every year), A Primate's Memoir.

He has a National Geographic documentary dedicated to his work on stress: https://www.amazon.com/Why-Zebras-Dont-Ulcers-Third/dp/0805073698/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494771312&sr=8-1&keywords=why+zebras+don%27t+get+ulcers

And just incredible lectures for a behavioral biology course at Stanford: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL150326949691B199

Then you have his latest book mentioned above.

I haven't found any of it online after a quick check, but there's been some of research on the subject. This is a thesis and huge source of information on it, but I can't find the text anywhere. There's some more and newer research, but unfortunately it seems that the Russians care the most about this, and they don't care to translate.

But it's all nicely summarized by primatologist and generally awesome bearded man Dr. Robert Sapolsky in his book, Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers, and mentioned in this talk which is worth a view.

Hey, thanks!

Well, speaking as someone who is quite experienced with the depressive state, I have no fucking clue other than it's a condition you'll just have to live with. There's some really good science being done out there but it's not yet close enough to find the root cause, at least not for all depression, and we continue to try different medications that may or may not work. (I'm not against that, by the way, whatever works, I'll take it.) I'm not trying to scare you here but I've had the same feeling of rediscovery many, many times -- I've thought that I have finally won and I can stay up here forever. I've been wrong each and every time.

Something that has helped me is a certain level of awareness to what is going on with the massive stress, and aside from (or together with) a genetic component, stress is statistically the biggest risk factor in depression. This book (by this awesome guy) talks a lot about depression and stress, so you can kinda know at least how that part works, and avoid some of the situations. (The serotonin/monoamine theory he talks about has been outdated somewhat since 2004, but that's not the main concern anyway.)

So, as best science knows so far, there doesn't have to be a reason. There can be, and there usually is the first time, but if you're predisposed, high amounts of normal, intermittent, daily-life stress is enough to trigger it.

Anyway, I'm railing off here. The main point was: Mindfulness meditation also has tons of solid science behind it. It works as a treatment, so you should try it. You might fare better than I have so far, and hopefully I will in time as well.

Another thing, also off topic: If you're ending up in a medical direction, you might want to look into if you're having what's called a bipolar spectrum disorder, which in essence means you're bipolar, but with very little mania or having hypomania mixed with depressive episodes. It doesn't matter for you or how you feel, but it matters for treatment, so. I'm currently being assessed for that, and it's probably correct, so if you're having the same feelings you might be in the same boat. (The differences between depression and this mainly being some episodes of high irritability, anger, some low-yield mania symptoms like excessive spending, inability to focus, sexual outbursts, things like that.)

You need to read this, it might well be the best book on stress ever written

> I do however work tirelessly to share the load of as much as I can around the household and with the kids.

You're way ahead of me! That's good to hear, and my apologies for guessing wrong. Given the normal distribution of housework and childcare in most households, it's a possibility that always needs to be raised in cases like this.

That only leaves the other option. If I were in your shoes, I would try to get her involved in consciously trying to reduce stress. Two specific approaches really stand out.

The first is simply getting more sleep. Busy people with jobs and kids and cellphones almost always skimp on sleep, and over the long run it really does reduce libido in a major way for a lot of people. Just setting a slightly earlier bedtime and banning devices from the bedroom can sometimes do wonders. It's quite possible that the real villains here are Candy Crush and Facebook.

The second-most-effective tool for reducing stress is meditation. A lot of people dismiss meditation as some sort of New Age thing, but there's a ton of solid research on its benefits, not just for sex, but for many other stress-related problems as well. I was a neuroscience student in the 90s when the research first started to pile up, and everything since then has confirmed what people were finding at the time. It's not magic, but it does help.

Related to the last point, comparison studies suggest that the most effective treatment available so far for low libido is something called Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy (MBCT) or [Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR)](). The program usually requires around 20 hours over eight weeks, plus 45 minutes of homework a day. Alternatively, you can do it online for free, though I don't know whether that is as effective.

> According to Lori Brotto, a professor of gynecology at the University of British Columbia, mood, interpersonal relationships, and general wellbeing are much more central to a woman’s lack of sexual desire than physiological factors. ...

> Brotto’s studies have shown that mindfulness ... can help women with sexual dysfunction increase their sexual desire by helping them to become more attuned to their body’s sexual response and learn to accept their body’s physical limitations. And, not only that, mindfulness can help decrease stress and alleviate depression, helping women to feel better and enjoy sex more.

Anyway, that's a possibility to suggest to your wife if she's willing to try to improve the situation.

Some good sources:

• Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers, Third Edition, An Updated Guide to Stress, Stress-Related Diseases, and Coping, by Robert Sapolsky, professor of biology and neuroscience at Stanford.
  
  
• Meditation Programs for Psychological Stress and Well-being - A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis, from the Journal of the American Medical Association, March 2014.
  
  
• A Mindfulness-Based Group Psychoeducational Intervention Targeting Sexual Arousal Disorder in Women, Journal of Sexual Medicine, July, 2008, Lori Brotto, et al.
  
  Random quote from Psychology Today (not a highly reliable source, but adequate for this sort of thing):
  
  > There is no magic pill for restoring sexual desire among women, nor is there likely to be. Perhaps the most effective route is educating both men and women about how women actually become aroused. One treatment of hypoactive desire in women that is proving highly effective utilizes mindfulness to connect bodily sensations of arousal with psychological arousal.
  
  I also highly recommend getting Emily Nagoski's book, Come As You Are, and sharing it with your wife.

Glucocorticoids.