Reddit reviews Writing Movies for Fun and Profit: How We Made a Billion Dollars at the Box Office and You Can, Too!
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Touchstone Books
Writing Movies for Fun and Profit: How We Made a Billion Dollars at the Box Office and You Can, Too! https://www.amazon.com/dp/1439186766/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_-pLCDbGJV4M3A
Whether you're a screenwriter or not, this is a fun book to read
In that book, I learned:
Re your questions:
Additional suggestions:
Get Good First Steve Martin famously said Be So Good They Can't Ignore You as the secret to succeeding in Hollywood. If you really want to be a screenwriter, devote ten times as much effort to becoming an outstanding screenwriter than you do getting a rep.
When you're good enough, the reps come after you. If your scripts are being read by your friends around town, and agents and producers are not calling you to set up lunch, your writing needs improvement. This is an absolutely accurate measure of your writing ability. The moment you write an outstanding script, you will know because everyone who reads it will want to use it to their advantage.
Never Pay To Play Services like the BL website exist to make money for them, not to make a career for you. Real talent-finders make their money on the deal (producers) or from commissioning your income (reps). Websites that charge for reading and hypothetical referrals are a waste of time and money.
Move To Where The Action Is If you want to work for Hollywood, live in SoCal, and get a job where you can meet people. Writers get work because someone they know read their script and liked it. This is how I broke in, and how everyone I know broke in. Trying to do it over the internet puts you at a big disadvantage.
Finally, I recommend reading this book before you take the plunge into a career as a screenwriter. It gives a very accurate idea of what the life is like. You might find you want to be a producer or a director instead.
Good luck.
they literally wrote the book on it
Here's the book they wrote
I would recommend reading this book: Writing Movies for Fun and Profit. It's entertaining and enlightening, plus I'm also a fan of Thomas Lennon.
> Now, if I was a studio exec and I had a million dollar move to make, I would read the script with GREAT care
Ok, so what if you have a 100 million dollar movie to make, and a hard deadline approaching... but no script. It sounds like a really really stupid idea, but this is often the norm.
> Now, why don't the studios ever seem to learn?
That tells me you're young and lack experience, since almost every corporation in America has about the same problem. You have accountants and managers whose only experience is looking at the little dollar signs at the end of the project... those are the guys in charge and may not have a creative bone in their body...
But they have stacks of papers that say "Peter Jackson directing + Orlando Bloom + Trilogy = PROFIT!!" Project Approved. Release date set. Alright let's make some movies!!!! Wait..where's the script and pre-production and planning? Shutup! Here. $$$. Deadline. Make it happen!
Surely you kid.
http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Movies-Fun-Profit-Billion/dp/1439186766
>Tell them that they hired you to be the designer, let me design.
"That I hired. Do what I fucking said you condescending prick."
This is how that will go down.
People already think they can hire "some 15 year old" to do shit, or fuck, even a god damn intern, and nothing you can say will convince them otherwise. Unless you have crazy good designer cred and can get away with this, this sounds like a great way to get into a bullshit power struggle with whatever cro-magnon exec/owner you talk to.
Instead just make good shit and pretend you were inspired by everything they want the first time around so they're far more likely to go down a 'good route. Follow Tom Lennon's advice on dealing with clients the way he deals with studio execs. Just know that they want credit for things that look good so their instinct is to turn knobs and leave fingerprints so just take your ego out of the equation and warp their awful shit into something workable by acting like it's amazing advice and ignoring as much of it as possible.
If all else fails, if they want shitty buttered noodles give them the best shitty buttered noodles possible.
Writing Movies for
Fun andProfit They talk about story and their process but they also talk about a ton about the industry and studios and getting fired, etc. Really good.edit: They = Thomas Lennon and Robert Ben Garant
Tom Lennon's and Ben Garant's Book includes three treatements. Two of which would normally be written out, and the third would be improved. Super funny guys, Tom Lennon is famous for his improv on Reno 911, and he and Ben wrote the treatment for the first movie which was also improvisational.
Actuallmumblecore treatments probably aren't going to be found online, since most of these are indie productions that never pitched to major studios.
I recommend this book so much you'd think I wrote it.
If I can be honest, I have absolutely no idea how affiliate links work. Buy it wherever you want.
But if I remember correctly (need to reread this) they go into exhaustive detail on what it's actually like to be a screenwriter in Hollywood, about what to wear in pitches, hell, even where you'll park on studio lots.
I just started reading Writing Movies for Fun and Profit and it is really interesting. I have 0 interest in making movies, but it gives a lot of insights to the inner mechanisms that drive so many movies today.
Also, on how to make movies for no profit, All I Need To Know About FILMMAKING I Learned From The Toxic Avenger is also a lot of fun and is interesting. I was was co-written by Llyod Kaufman and James Gunn back when he was pretty involved with Troma. A lot of interesting stuff on how indie films usually to carve out different markets through the past 4 decades.
These are great recommendations!
I'd also add Writing Movies for Fun and Profit by former "State" members Thomas Lennon and Ben Garant. It's more about gaming the Hollywood studios and giving them what they typically want.
Nope! Writing a novel or long fiction is a completely different experience than writing a screenplay. If the end goal is a finished screenplay, a novel is procrastination. Plus it's a hard transition. I moved from long fiction to screenwriting, and there's a learning curve.
Screenwriting is an entirely visual medium. Absolutely everything that you write should amount to instructions to the director as to what should be on the screen. The long-winded, descriptive nature of prose holds you back in a script, where you have 90-120 precious pages filled with more white space than words. Every last sentence has to count.
The best "intro" book to screenwriting I've read is Writing Movies for Fun and Profit. It's a realistic look at what the experiences, expectations, and challenges of a successful screenwriter will be. It has everything you need to know about formatting and story, but won't turn you into a Save the Cat robot. You'll also get the perspective of the "gate-keepers," and exactly what they're looking for in a screenwriter and his/her work.
I had to work on conciseness, too. Shane Black is the king of that, so reading his scripts might help. Something to remember is that paragraphs of action should be broken up at a MAXIMUM of every four lines, but readers will appreciate more often than that when you can.
People judge your writing based on dialogue and overall structure. If your action lines are simply instruction, no one will think you don't know how to describe a man getting shot as well as Faulkner, they'll be thankful you gave them three words to convey the same idea that 15 words would have done.
If you're thinking about writing a novel just so you have a better hold on the story, screenwriting has a lot of fun processes for getting to know your story. I'd suggest writing your story out as a treatment before you touch your script, and writing one page about the arc of each main character (feeling free to include details about the character not present in the script).
Unlike a novel, a movie doesn't give us all the information. It gives us the bare minimum it possibly can to tell a complete, enthralling, interesting story. Start the story and all scenes as late into the narrative as you can, and end everything as soon as you can.
Don't let your characters ramble. Don't make your characters sound the same. Don't make all your characters smart and funny. Real people do swear and say unsavory things, but in a movie you have to remember that every word and sentence should serve a purpose. I'm the one rambling, now. Happy to shine more light where needed, if you'd like!
It's a pretty common trope in hollywood that writers complain that the director didn't really capture their vision. This is also the reason (and danger) that rewrites are so common- the producers want to make sure everything is "just right" (or they're full of ego) so they'll take a script and rewrite parts and generally defile this thing the original writer spent a lot of time on.
There's a decent book called Writing Movies for Fun and Profit that explains the ins and outs of the real writing process on studio films. It's written by former The State members Tom Lennon and Ben Garant. Pretty funny and informative on the production process from a writer's perspective.
a book that you may like.
it's actually a good read.
How to Write Movies For f̶u̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ Profit
By Thomas Lennon and Robert Ben Garant
Great look at why movies can be crappy, but also how to exploit that to get money and do the things you love.
http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Movies-Fun-Profit-Billion/dp/1439186766
I just finished reading this book: https://www.amazon.com/Writing-Movies-Fun-Profit-Billion/dp/1439186766
It might provide you with some helpful insight and it's very entertaining!
Buy this book and read it. It looks like a joke but it is filled with great advice from two actual screen writers.
edit: oops wrong link
You already got a good answer, but I found the below helpful too: it came from "Writing Movies for Fun and Profit" (Lennon/Garant)...
> DIRECTED BY: The movie is “their vision.” They are in charge of EVERY creative decision on set. They are the captain of the ship. Even when the person who hired the DIRECTOR (the STUDIO) wants something done on set, they can’t just say, “I want Lindsay Lohan to bowl here.” The STUDIO has to tell the DIRECTOR to say, “I want Lindsay Lohan to bowl here.” Then the DIRECTOR makes Lindsay bowl, or they’re fired.
>
> PRODUCED BY: Usually the one who hired EVERYBODY. The star, the DIRECTOR, the writers. After shooting begins, they remain on set as creative consultant—a VOICE-IN-THE-MIX. However, they are the VOICE-IN-THE-MIX-WHO-MUST-BE-LISTENED-TO. They usually sit by the monitors, watching every take (either knitting or Googling showbiz gossip, depending on their age and sex). When they see something they want to change, they tell the director. The DIRECTOR has to either do it, talk them out of it, or quit.
>
> EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: Tricky one to define. Technically, they are THE BOSS. The EP is usually the one who got the ball rolling on the project, conceiving it, finding the source material, hiring the DIRECTOR and/or star and even the other producers. Some EPs oversee every aspect of every single production. And there are EPs on the Night at the Museum movies we never even met. Never even met.
>
> CO-PRODUCER: Usually a line producer, in charge of the budget. Also the “bad cop” in charge of hiring and firing people. The co-producer usually has an actual OFFICE, in the production office in Hollywood or Burbank, while the producers are miles way, at their swanky offices in Beverly Hills, and the executive producer is in Cannes or Monte Carlo or jet-setting around with Al Gore. Sometimes the co-producer has done more actual WORK on a movie than all of the producers and executive producers combined.
>
> UNIT PRODUCTION MANAGER: Sort of a line producer, but their job is 100 percent to oversee the COSTS of a film: they look at the budgets, make sure every department is staying on budget, and walk around on the set looking tense and staring at their watch. They make sure everyone fills out their cost reports and that those cost reports are accurate and UNDER budget. The GOOD UPMs are real ball busters, and everyone hates them. Except the producer.
>
Book is written by the script writers, and has some really good storys
http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Movies-Fun-Profit-Billion/dp/1439186766
https://www.amazon.ca/Screenplay-Foundations-Screenwriting-Syd-Field/dp/0385339038/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1474698495&sr=8-2&keywords=screenwriting
https://www.amazon.ca/Story-Structure-Substance-Principles-Screenwriting/dp/0060391685/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474698472&sr=8-1&keywords=story
https://www.amazon.ca/Save-Cat-Last-Screenwriting-Youll/dp/1932907009/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474698480&sr=8-1&keywords=save+the+cat
https://www.amazon.ca/Writing-Movies-Fun-Profit-Billion/dp/1439186766/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474698488&sr=8-1&keywords=writing+for+fun+and+profit
Buy all 4 read them in the above order, The first 3 will teach you everything you need to know. The last one gives great insight into actually making money off of it.
It's a pretty awesome book. Got that's where fiber was drawing from (they recommend it!) Wasn't sure if it was in irony or not:(
http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Movies-Fun-Profit-Billion/dp/1439186766
http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Movies-Fun-Profit-Billion/dp/1439186766/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343834162&sr=8-1&keywords=thomas+lennon
This book is a good start.
https://smile.amazon.com/Writing-Movies-Fun-Profit-Billion/dp/1439186766/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520527996&sr=8-1&keywords=writing+movies+for+fun+and+profit
Ah, well just watch as many movies as you possibly can. When you find something you like, watch all the other movies that director did, or that actor that catches your eye. And there is NO better book for hollywood that I've found than this one: http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Movies-Fun-Profit-Billion/dp/1439186766
They lay out how to screenwrite, pitch movies, what studios are where, even what each parking lot at each studio is called and what it means to be allowed to park there (the further you have to walk, the less they like your screenplay). They lay out the whole process of what all the important players do, mostly from a writer's perspective, but it really says a lot about how studio execs think (and why).
To add to this, from a technical standpoint, your scene decriptors are telling, not showing. You're overusing camera directions, by that I mean "you're using camera directions, don't do that". Don't use "CUT TO". And your page count is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too high. Screenplays read a page a minute (roughly). 176 pages is essentially a three hour movie - first film's runtime x 1.5.
If you want a solid example of a screenplay to emulate, take a look at the original Green Lantern screenplay. There are screenwriting courses that used this as a textbook example of a well-written screenplay.
Also, check out Robert Ben Garant's masterclass on the three act structure and page pacing. He also co-wrote a book with Thomas Lennon called Writing Movies for Fun and Profit: How We Made a Billion Dollars at the Box Office and You Can, Too!.
Read this book from the guys from Reno 911 who also wrote Night at The Museum
I don't often deal with agents but I've worked with a lot of directors and producers who have that reputation.
When someone gets mad and yells, it's for one of two reasons--
Mostly, don't worry about it. Try to find ways to be helpful and do tasks that your superiors don't want to do. They'll wind up giving you more and more and you'll learn and grow. If you do get stuck under someone who's truly irrational or terribly organized, stick it out for a while. Everyone else knows that they're a nightmare and once you've learned stuff and have gotten truly useful, they'll happily pick you up and quietly commiserate. Whatever you do, don't badmouth anybody. You never know who's friends with whom.
Story time: A buddy of mine is an illustrator and really into comics. His last summer of college, he got an internship with a reknown comic artist. All summer he did little menial jobs with a great attitude. At the end, the illustrator invited him out to a lunch with a bunch of his friends. They got to talking about comics and costume design. My friend chimed in about how terrible Nightwing's costume is and how that whole character is a pox on the Batman franchise-- he really went off. No one said a word, no one stopped him, they just let him go. When he was done, the conversation continued politely. A year later, he graduated and emailed the illustrator but didn't get any response. He couldn't get a call back from any of his contacts. It was two years before he realized that the creator and designer of Nightwing was sitting at that table. He called-- years later-- to apologize. The illustrator was really nice and gracious about it but just wrapped up the conversation and hung up.
By far the best book on the business side of film is Writing Movies for
Fun andProfit, written by the guys who did Reno 911. Their central thesis is that when you're brought onto a project, your job is to help the producer keep their job. They're going to hire whoever they think is going to help them keep their job and if you're able to do that consistently, you'll always get re-hired. Writing scripts that are actually good is just a bonus. The book's really funny and super short. Well worth it.Buena suerte!
Oof, yeah, the baby is going to make life unpredictable. Maybe look into a B vitamin complex or some non-caffeine energy drinks, try to make those naps more effective by not being strung out on caffeine.
Or "caffeine naps," where you slam a drink of your choice then immediately nap for half an hour, might work for you too.
My writing partner and I have known each other for nearly 15 years, family friends through his younger brother who prefers being a lighting/sound tech for live theater. There were some growing pains, arguments over earlier work, but we've hit a nice stride where we can work relatively fast and not really have an ego about things; it's all about the quality of the final product.
This book was a big benefit to us, we follow their strategy: split the story up, write it, and constantly iterate over each other's work.
> its not like writing a comedy is easy,
Ahem