Best christian bible history books according to redditors
We found 94 Reddit comments discussing the best christian bible history books. We ranked the 32 resulting products by number of redditors who mentioned them. Here are the top 20.
We found 94 Reddit comments discussing the best christian bible history books. We ranked the 32 resulting products by number of redditors who mentioned them. Here are the top 20.
The whole "Christian Dark Ages" trope, where the Catholic Church suppressed reason and scientific thought. Historians have debunked it years ago, but it's still commonly believed by enough people that I see it fairly often, especially on the internet. For sources, I'd point to God's Philosophers by James Hannam which is a great read as a starting point.
gimme a break
those passages are for real and calling them "complex" is bullshit
https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Talmud-Peter-Sch%C3%A4fer/dp/0691143188
>Furthermore, Schafer shows that Celsus and early church fathers such as Justin Martyr fought against similar polemics to that in the Balvi in pagan sources. While Schafer points out that this is not evidence of historicity, it shows clear trends in counter-Christian polemics. Christians will find this slanderous: calling Mary licentious, Jesus a magician and corruptor of Rabbis out of Egypt, and seeing him depicted in the afterlife in his excrement, and one of the few who damned as opposed to merely annihilated in Jewish thought is clear. However, Schafer also shows how deeply counter to Jewish tradition, not just Pharisees but even to Temple Judaism, many of the claims of Christianity would have seemed, particularly, once again, as stated in the Gospel of John.
>18- If the Quran is perfect and clear, why is the hadith necessary to explain it and supplement it?
I'm reading a book called The Hidden Origins of Islam and one of the explanations given in it for this phenomenon is that the Quran might actually be a compilation of older texts from various religions and sects-- that's why it's so disjointed when you read it. It constantly changes topics as if a person with ADHD wrote it and contains major contradictions-- not to mention all the scientific errors. The book proposes that in order to make sense of this chaos and give it a context, the ulema and/or political authorities of the 7th-10th centuries had to invent the concept of hadiths to expound on Islam and give the Quran better continuity. This would explain why most, if not all, of the hadith collections were written 100-200+ years after Muhammad's supposed death.
Edit: rephrased second-to-last sentence
i am not a german and honestly look around you and ask yourself, was this first invented in the US?
and it was, 80% of the time. look at your calender on the wall for example, the coating, the production methods, the chemical refinery of the colors, the software it was made of, the software of the production machines, the printers, the cutting machines, the delivery systems, .. that just one fucking calender
from social progress to technology to arts to science - the US is leader in every single one of these areas. the EU is very close but it is not formally one country so no. you would bend over and let a dictatorship known for the production output of socks fuck you?
that is hilarious
i recommend you:
Ian Morris: Why the West Rules for Now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnqS7G3LmMo
Peter Watson - Ideas: History of Humankind
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0753820897/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i17
Peter Zeihan Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feU7HT0x_qU
the book to it - https://www.amazon.com/Accidental-Superpower-Generation-American-Preeminence/dp/1455583685
Andrew Moravcsik - What is a Superpower? What is Power? Why the EU is the 2nd Superpower of the 21st century.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOPPyGyeh-o&t
Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book Infidel has this bit in it about her time living in Saudi Arabia. Apart from being an obviously awful place for a black woman to live, what struck me was when she mentioned how day to day difficulties are blamed on the jews. Air conditioning stopped working? Bloody Jews. Car won't start? Bloody Jews.
I have only her word that this happens, but it'd be interesting to find out from someone who has lived there what their experience was
/u/Vesper42 started to hint at a few possible misconceptions. However, there is a much wider theory floating around that was popularized by Acharya S in her book, The Christ conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold. There are others who have made the suggestion that early Christians were following pagan rituals and sun worship, but she pulls a lot of it together.
The gist of it is that many people believe that there are much older religions than Christianity, who all focused on the sun as the primary object of worship. They look at the Christian stories and try to draw parallels to say that Christianity was derived from all of these older religions and simply became more popular than them over time.
Obviously this is terribly wrong and full of bad facts. However, there is some basis for the notion that paganism had infiltrated Christianity in the early days. That is, we see passages like 1 Cor. 8, where the apostles have to address the issue of pagan beliefs (specifically food sacrificed to idols) becoming a problem in the church and causing some people to fall into sin. Likewise, Romans 1 talks about how some people quickly abandon God to worship idols. Much of 1 John 5 is also about discerning genuine faith in Christ from that which allows idol worship to infiltrate our beliefs.
So, yes, paganism infiltrated the early church at different points because of people who were weak in their faith and didn't know any better. The grew up with pagan idol-worship as the only thing they had known and carried some of their personal history with them when they decided to follow Jesus, which was an issue that had to be sorted out by the leaders of each of the churches.
All of these kinks were pretty well worked out until Constantine came around (c306-337). He was famous for "converting" to Christianity and decriminizing Christianity within the Roman Empire. This had the positive effect of allowing Christians the freedom to meet publicly and develop councils, a biblical canon, etc. However, it caused some problems too.
Specifically, the political shift in favor of Christianity caused a lot of people to "convert" for non-faith-based reasons, which eventually paved the way for the status of the church today with respect to numerous faux-Christians who identify as "Christian" and may even attend a church, but whose faith is not genuine. This caused some early problems with respect to non-Christian things creeping into the church.
Constantine himself was one of the biggest examples of this happening. Although he claimed to have converted to Christianity, even after his "conversion" he continued to "worship" other false gods. Some speculate that his adoption of various deities was for the purpose of political unification and he didn't really have faith in any of the religious views he adopted. One of his predecessors, Aurelian, had established a foundation for sun-worship in the late 200s (though the practice was much older), specifically recognizing "Sun-day" for that purpose. Constantine attempted to unify Christians with the sun-worshipers by making Sunday a day when no work would be done except farming.
So, to some degree Constantine had attempted to bring political unity by pressing for religious groups to align their beliefs with one another, much the same way that there is a lot of political pressure today for Christians to start aligning themselves with Muslim views in order to stop the fighting.
Anyway ... that's probably more than you cared for, but it's part of the reason why Christians are falsely accused of being sun-worshiping pagans :p
If you want to know why contemporary Jews dont accept Jesus, look to the Talmud. Remember the Talmud was written a few hundred years after Christ, so he's referenced like 50+ times. None of them positive mind you. Basically The Talmud teaches that Jesus Christ was illegitimate, Mary was a whore who lay with a Roman soldier. Christ was conceived during menstruation; that he had the soul of Esau (Issacs son); that he was a fool, a conjurer, a seducer; that he was crucified, buried in hell and set up as an idol ever since by his followers. If you're interested in the topic read "Jesus in the Talmud" by Peter Schafer, he was a professor at
StanfordPrinceton that put it all the references to Jesus in one book with explanation of the context of every passage. https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Talmud-Peter-Sch%C3%A4fer-ebook/dp/B002WJM5Y6So yea, modern Talmudic Jews are not fans of Jesus, and modern Judiasm a false religion. Christ died so that all men be saved.
You should give this book a read. It's quite excellent, and shows the Christian ideas that underlie much of the development of the scientific method. https://www.amazon.com/Gods-Philosophers-Medieval-Foundations-Science/dp/1848311508/
Essential Sufism is a great place to start. It isn't so much a review of basic beliefs, but rather a collection of various writings from sufi thinkers from various places and times.
A more academic, but good overall introduction to sufism is Carl Ernst's book.
It depends (in part) on the kind of Baptist they are. If they're at all Calvinist, this book by St. Francis de Sales did wonders for my own conversion. It's online here for free.
Most Baptists, though, are more Arminian, and de Sales' book will still have some very persuasive arguments (about the origin of the canon of Scripture and the nature of the visible Church, for example), but others will fall flat (because they depend on the audience believing in double predestination). It's a good resource regardless, but be aware of how the arguments you use may land.
Since your father-in-law is the son of a preacher, he may be fairly well-versed in his own theology. In that case, tackling all of the issues will be difficult in brief. If your in-laws are not well-read in their theology, then most of their accusations will be of the anthropocentric, institutional variety--"But Galileo and the Spanish Inquisition and child abuse and intentionally obfuscating Scripture by using Latin and burning heretics who just wanted people to read the Bible," and so on. These are fairly easy to refute (history is on your side here), but difficult to convince someone against (because they are often taught from an early age, one way or another, and become emotional pleas instead of logical arguments). I haven't read it in full, but I'm given to understand that this book is quite good with those historical "arguments."
As u/Akzum said, Catholic Answers is phenomenal. I listened to it quite a lot before finalizing my conversion.
One final, somewhat self-aggrandizing note--I share this a lot (probably too much for all redditors to like me for it), but I was received into the Church a little over three years ago, and last year, I decided it was time to disabuse my parents (especially my mother) of the notion that I only converted because my wife is Catholic. I started a blog series in which I addressed every (or nearly every) argument I had used (or heard used) against the Catholic Church by Protestants and refuted it to the best of my ability, building upon earlier posts as I went. (In retrospect, the series doesn't really start to get good, in my opinion, until 8 or 10 posts in.) The table of contents for that (not quite complete) series is here. The titles may not make clear the subject of each post, so I may go back and add brief descriptions, but the short order is: Church authority, the canon of Scripture, the papacy, the priesthood, Church unity, the basics of Catholic morality, original sin, the sacraments, sacramentals, saints, Mary, sanctification, Catholic "scandals" (historical arguments), and Catholic moral behavior. When I finish that bit, I'll add posts on aetiology and eschatology. So I like to think it's pretty thorough, but it may not be helpful at all depending on where your in-laws are coming from (since it's primarily a recounting of my conversion, not a work of apologetics).
Hope that helps! Talking to family (perhaps especially in-laws) about this is really tough; both my wife and I are converts, and we're raising our children Catholic, so I think this festers a lot with our extended families, and it's difficult to keep it from being a problem.
Here you are
This book is very good:
https://www.amazon.com/Christ-Conspiracy-Greatest-Story-Ever/dp/0932813747
It's very well researched, high in detail, and low in theory.
Lucy, are you in the sky? (Sorry, I know you made this username because of the song, I had to, though.)
Also, How did you find this subreddit? Did you just type "/r/pagan" after "www.reddit.com", or did you search reddit for "pagan", or something else? I'm curious as to how people find this subreddit. :)
Seriously, though...
>My problem, however, is that my initial religious education of "one god" is pretty well ingrained. How would you suggest I get past this so that I can continue to grow spiritually?
While I come from what is often considered a reconstructionist tradition, I think the following things would be helpful even if you are not a reconstructionist:
It's not enough to believe things, you have to do them, too. Or else it's easy to say you think one thing, but actually do another.
For #1, I'd recommend three books off the top of my head to you:
Since you're interested in Bast (sometimes called Bastet), I'd also suggest learning about ancient Egyptian culture and religion. Even if you never ever practice Kemeticism, I think it'd be a good place to start both unlearning monotheistic habits of thought and learning more polytheistic habits. And you'd get to learn more about Bast,to boot. But even if you don't do that, I suggest doing at least the first two things.
If you can only borrow or find or buy one, I suggest one of the first two, but the third one is also good. The first two are written by polytheists, with Paper writing from his personal perspective, informed by Chinese religion and Native American religion, while Greer writes more generally. However, Kirsch's book is helpful, because it contrasts polytheism and monotheism side by side. Sometimes one can learn some what something is by learning what it is not.
Sorry for the wall of text, I hope you find it helpful. It'll likely take a long time to unlearn what you've learned, but it's possible if you study and practice.
The life of William Marshal, the greatest knight the world has ever known. He served 5 English kings, was regent to the throne, is the only person to best Richard the Lionheart in single combat and at the age of 72 defeated invading French forces and drove them off British soil (and since that day, no invading force has ever landed on British soil). He was George R.R. Martin's inspiration for Barristan Selmy. Everything about his life is unbelievably fascinating. Wiki.
Here are some books I've read about him:
The Greatest Knight by Thomas Asbridge
The Knight who Saved England by Richard Brooks
William Marshal: Court, Career and Chivalry in the Angevin Empire 1147-1219 by David Crouch
William Marshall: Knight-Errant, Baron, and Regent of England by Sidney Painter
William Marshal: The Flower of Chivalry by Georges Duby.
When I started watching this show a few years ago I ended up buying quite a few books about Norse Mythology and Asatru (the reconstruction religion that is becoming more popular).
Here are a few good ones
The Norse Myths This is a good basic breakdown of the stories in the Sagas/Eddas and is easy to read.
Viking Age: Everyday Life During the Extraordinary Era of the Norsemen This is a fantastic book that really isn't related to the myths (there is a religion section) but this is a great book that goes over the everyday lives of Vikings and their families. Everything from political structure down to what they ate and how they dressed. It also has great illustrations.
The Prose Edda: Norse Mythology (Penguin Classics) - one of the source materials of the myths.
The Sagas of Ragnar Lodbrok - I dont have this one personally but it is on my list to buy.
If you want to read about the reconstruction religion that has gained in popularity since the 70s check this book out. Essential Asatru: Walking the Path of Norse Paganism - This is another easy to read book that not only goes over the basics of the Myths/Gods but also goes over the ceremonies and rituals of those who choose to practice today what the Vikings practiced. Minus the live sacrifices... those have been replaced with food and drink thankfully.
If you are just wanting to dip your toes into learning about the myths I cannot recommend the first link more than enough. It is far easier to read than the Eddas/Sagas and from what I understand from other subs is a widely regarded starting point.
Also check out /r/norse and /r/asatru.
I see you're looking for book recommendations - I've posted this before, but you'll probably enjoy There Was No Jesus, There Is No God, which, incisive title notwithstanding, does a great job consolidating Ehrman's and Carriers' research into an objective analysis of what evidence there is for Jesus' existence and what weight we can apply to it. The book itself is a rewrite of the author's doctoral thesis, written for the layman. Despite the rewrite it is still very dry material, but if you have an academic interest in it you'll be fascinated enough to make it through.
EDIT: The most interesting part, in my opinion, was the author's deconstruction of biblical scholarship and how much less rigorously their documents are verified because of the underlying intent to reinforce the religion they follow. It gets really bad... to the extent of conjuring up hypothetical sources from which the gospels could have drawn "because they would have to have existed", and then citing the hypothetical source as evidence verifying the legitimacy of other documents. It's godawful sloppy scholarship, because it has to be; an honest objective analysis would disregard these sources entirely.
How about reading a nonfiction book about fictional worlds? lol. If you feel up to it Literary Wonderlands: A Journey Through the Greatest Fictional Worlds Ever Created is surprisingly thorough in its research, despite seeming like it might just give a superficial overview of different fictional universes.
One that isn't out yet, but I'm desperately waiting to read, is Letters from Tove which is a collection of letters written by Tove Jansson, author and artist of Moomins fame.
Just suggestions though! If neither of those interest you I hope you find another good book to cozy up with :)
>I imagine a world where technological progress has been inhibited, and the world has been in a medieval state. (...)
In a "Medieval state", so, that can be summed up by much quicker technological advancement than either in Roman times or during the renaissance?
Medieval as in, religion had much less importance to civic life than in Rome (when religious festivals were a civic duty, which did put Christians at odds with traditions) and much less power than during the renaissance (when the papacy had regained independence from secular states)? a Church which basically is struggling to liberate itself from secular domination - until it did, at the very end of the middle ages, thanks to the Cluniac movement. A church that is the main driving engine of scientific progress (oh, this one will hurt some Redditors' head to no end.)
In short, a "middle ages" that would look nothing like the actual middle ages. This period was anything but low-tech or dominated by religion, and religious institutions such as the papacy and monasteries were incredibly important to scientific/technological progress. I wonder how much time before the public psyche catches up to historical research in this area. Because those views are totally at odds.
Sources:
This text has some decent info form what I've heard.
Another one I've been reading is God against the gods!, History of the war between Monotheism and Polytheism, damn interesting read.
If you have not already, you absolutely want to buy this book.
The religion part of Zeitgeist, Astro-theology is the only part that I still "believe". Religion and myths were the way we passed down certain "knowledge". The precession of the equinoxes being one of them.
I've read the book that it's based on, The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold by Acharya S. She's incredibly knowledgeable. She's written multiple followup books to explore (and source) concepts that critics felt were lacking, unexplained or unsourced in TCC. The forum on her website is quite interesting too. I posted a couple times, a couple of years ago and actually got responsesfrom her and other knowledgeable people; former clergy, former astrologers, people claiming to be historians, etc. They have me convinced.
And then there's the rest of the trainwreck that is the first Zeitgeist. No, 9/11 was not an inside job. No, returning the banking system to a gold based standard will not improve things.
The other Zeitgeist films are interesting in a Utopian Science Fiction fantasy way but not much else to my interest. A "resource-based economy" sounds nice, but I don't see that happening in my lifetime. The political and social change needed to contemplate that type of economic change is not going to happen quickly. Though the rebound from Trumpism and the "blue wave" might snap the elastic that is the Overton window in the liberal direction.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amazon.com/Christ-Conspiracy-Greatest-Story-Ever/dp/0932813747&ved=2ahUKEwiF-4XksIjiAhXPnuAKHTodAXgQFjAAegQIBxAC&usg=AOvVaw2sNK8Sg38p-CkmOBZgAg2l
If you're interested in the history of the middle ages, and the scientific advancement that took place during this overlooked part of history, and the role the Church played, I would recommend the book God's Philosophers.
Haha, sorry, I just take every chance I can get to peddle my interest in Medieval history.
I'm not interested in bickering with you two, but I've read into this area quite a bit. Islam and the middle east made minuscule contributions to science outside of Western Europe, although there certainly was influence from the Islamic world, it pales in comparison. It was actually considered fashionable and myserious to read about the writings of the East for a while in Western Europe. Many scholars would boast about it, but if you follow the lines, there really wasn't much there. Particularly the writings of medicine and astronomy, the vast bulk of discovery was by Western Europeans, often monks or funded by the Catholic church.
There's an arrogant attitude of individuals living within the "enlightenment" that has lead many to view medieval history as nothing but barbaric superstitious religion. A lot of history written by Protestants and atheists has really muddied the water as It's an ample opportunity to bash the Catholics or the religious. Not to say that I'm turning a blind eye to the atrocities committed by the Vatican or religious dogma in general. It's also unfair to mock people from the dark ages, when It's likely that if we were born in that era and location, we'd be exactly the same. Western Europe really climbed It's way out of the gutter.
Relying on online sources of information (wikipedia) has often proven a waste of time from my experience, too much bias and half truths, I recommend reading original source material. Hold on I'll get a link to a book that is a good place to start.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gods-Philosophers-Medieval-Foundations-Science/dp/1848311508?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-brave-uk-21&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=1848311508
Western Europe really is responsible for huge leaps forward in humanity. The Anglican's also weren't JUST barbarians, (although I understand why you'd think so considering some of the sacrificing).
I don't think we appreciate just how weird this period in time is for humanity in the West. The level of freedom I believe is a consequence of Christian teaching along with Greek Philosophy, particularly Aristotle's writing. Aristotle was a huge thorn in the side of the Catholic church, but it lead to the constantly searching mind of Western Europe, and combined with the order enforced through the Catholic church lead to a lot of interesting human thought. It's difficult to imagine the world from the perspective of people who thought of the world with god in the center of it.
There's a bibliography in the back of that book that you can work through. The significance of Europe really is a marvel to behold. I hope you read and enjoy it guys.
Here's a book I found on Amazon that might help:
The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold
I haven't read this book myself, but this might be the closest thing to a "real" source. This book seems to cite a lot of sources.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/13/libyan-peace-rally-slams-terrorism-offers-apology-for-attack_n_1881798.html
That made headlines.
Read this book and it shows that even though the crusades have happened such a long time ago, the echoes are still being felt today.
http://www.amazon.com/Holy-War-Crusades-Impact-Todays/dp/0385721404
It's very unclear what are references to Jesus in the Talmud and what are not. There is a figure called "Yeshu" who is depicted unfavorably. The section you refer to is very unclear. Here is the text from the Soncino edition of the Babylonian Talmud (Gittin 57a):
> [Onkelos] then went and raised Balaam by incantations. [Onkelos] asked him: "Who is in repute in the other world?" [Balaam] replied: "Israel." "What then," [Onkelos] said, "about joining them?" [Balaam] replied: "Thou shalt not seek their peace nor their prosperity all thy days for ever." [Onkelos] then asked: "What is your punishment?" [Balaam] replied: "With boiling hot semen."
> [Onkelos] then went and raised by incantations the sinners of Israel. He asked them: "Who is in repute in the other world?" They replied: "Israel." [Onkelos asked,] "What about joining them?" They replied: "Seek their welfare, seek not their harm. Whoever touches them touches the apple of his eye." [Onkelos] said: "What is your punishment?" They replied: "With boiling hot excrement, since a Master has said: 'Whoever mocks at the words of the Sages is punished with boiling hot excrement.'"
Now, in some versions of the Babylonian Talmud, it doesn't say the "sinners of Israel." In some versions, it says "Yeshu." No one knows what the original was, and it's been debated if this "Yeshu" even is the same person as Jesus. You may find this book worthwhile.
Edit:
A further note: Many claim that "Yeshu" is not even a personal name, but an acronym standing for the phrase, "May his name and his memory be obliterated."
I would read Karen Armstrong's Holy War to get a sense of the rich history of Jewish-Arab coexistence and the wide context of Western aggression against the Arab world.
If you enjoyed the film, I'd highly recommend the book 1491: The Americas before Columbus.
I think you're wrong about the relationship of the Catholic Church and Science. Might I recommend God's Philosophers?
My parents are actually christian missionaries as well and after I explained it to them they became quite worried but eventually understood and accecpted my religious views. My suggestion is to give them a copy of this book: http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Asatru-Walking-Norse-Paganism/dp/0806527080/ref=cm_lmf_tit_8 which really helped me when I first tried explaining it to them.
With Jesus' beloved disciple, who “reclined upon the bosom of the Lord” and whispered to him at the Last Supper, you ask if they were sitting or standing. If the disciple lay on Jesus' chest, what do you think? You venture no opinion as to the pair's evident closeness if Jesus requested that this disciple take care of his mother after his death. And this was the only male disciple to attend Jesus' crucifixion. You've left this point unanswered. King James I of England compared his own sexual relationship with the Duke of Buckingham to that between Jesus and his beloved. Elton John also viewed the two as fuckbuddies. Dare you disagree with Elton John?
You denigrate books that speak of Jesus' homosexuality, like this one and [this one](https://www.amazon.com/man-jesus-loved-Theodore-Jennings/dp/082981535X?ie=UTF8&tag=jesusinloveor-20&link_code=btl&camp=213689&creative=392969
) and [this one](http://www.lulu.com/shop/robert-holt/gay-gospel-jesus-and-john-the-beloved-disciple/ebook/product-17553396.html
) and this one, but this is after claiming there's no source material. At least you've dropped the suggestion that Clement's letter was forged.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Genesis-Science-Scientific-Revolution/dp/1596981555/bedeslibrary
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gods-Philosophers-Medieval-Foundations-Science/dp/1848311508/
These may be available through your library..
Actually there wasn't, contrary to popular understanding:
http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Philosophers-James-Hannam/dp/1848311508
http://www.strangenotions.com/gods-philosophers/
Karen Armstrong's Holy War about the Crusades and their impact on the modern western world, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. Would highly recommend.
The reflex return in certain circumstances just takes time to wear off,... and the rest of it is a deep-seated fear that got implanted along with the rest.
http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Conspiracy-Greatest-Story-Ever/dp/0932813747/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1292678020&sr=8-3
Read this book if you can, the author makes a good case that there was no historical Jesus. If Jesus didn't exist the remnants fall away.
Good luck, and keep questioning.
Of course it sucks. They can't even tell the truth about Jesus (ie that there was probably no historical Jesus, and even if there was one, he didn't perform miracles or rise from the dead).
https://www.amazon.com/there-was-Jesus-God-Philosophical/dp/1492234419/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=there+was+no+jesus&qid=1566128499&s=gateway&sr=8-1
>Any book recommendations on wether a historical Jesus existed ?
The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold
Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled
Who Was Jesus? Fingerprints of the Christ
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
This book studies the relation of the Church and the sciences during the Middle Ages, particularly going into how the Church fostered science instead of suppressing it as many mistakenly believe.
This book is a history of the western rites and their liturgies. It should have a few chapters on the development of the mass in the Middle Ages. It goes into how the mass developed in Spain, Africa, Rome, and other areas.
This book is on pilgrimaged in the Middle Ages. Though many pilgrims couldn’t go to the Holy Land, they still went on pilgrimages to local shrines of saints.
Edit: Added a few books.
Not so sure if this is exactly what you asked. But I adore this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Ideas-History-Freud-Peter-Watson/dp/0753820897
Sufis tend to not have their own translation of the Quran, but their own tafasir of the Quran. That is to say, Sufis have their own exegesis on Quranic verses. My advise would be to look for different Sufi interpretations of those passages.
But if you're looking for a good translation that would be similar to a Sufi's theology, here's a good one:
https://www.amazon.com/Quran-New-Translation-Tarif-Khalidi/dp/0143105884/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1511073835&sr=8-8&keywords=quran+translation
The 'better' interpretation is found in historical books and journals, but since I'm going to have to do your work for you:
You could start with Clarke's [Civilisation series](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilisation_(TV_series), James Hannan wrote a reasonable book outlining the course of science over the mediaeval period, and you should read Ronald Numbers to finish off an overview.
But go ahead and downvote, because as everyone knows, uninformed comments are far more popular than facts.
Even if we are, so what? It doesn't make us wrong.
Weighing up the evidence for the ‘Historical Jesus’
There Was No Jesus, There Is No God by Raphael Lataster
Karl-Heinz Ohlig and Gerd-R. Puin have apparently been making a highly minimalist / skeptical argument. This is the homepage of the research group Inarah (in German):
Perhaps unsurprisingly, the work seems controversial; at least two of the collaborators use pseudonyms (Luxenberg and Warraq); and the work is being pursued in Germany, by non-Muslims. Could such study ever be meaningfully embraced by a wing of Islam, a la the liberal Protestant mainline in Christianity? I have no idea... Muʿtazila sounds like a candidate, except per Wikipedia, "By the end of the 15th century, Mu'tazila had essentially ceased to exist as a held position." Maybe the Ismailis? But it only takes a few assassination attempts to make people nervous...
Die dunklen Anfänge: Neue Forschungen zur Entstehung und frühen Geschichte des Islams (2005)
https://www.perlentaucher.de/buch/die-dunklen-anfaenge.html
The Hidden Origins of Islam: New Research into Its Early History (2009)
https://www.academia.edu/8011113/Hidden_Origins_of_Islam
Schlaglichter: Die beiden ersten islamischen Jahrhunderte (2008)
https://www.amazon.de/Schlaglichter-beiden-ersten-islamischen-Jahrhunderte/dp/3899302249
Der frühe Islam. Eine historisch-kritische Rekonstruktion anhand zeitgenössischer Quellen (2010)
https://www.amazon.de/Islam-historisch-kritische-Rekonstruktion-zeitgen%C3%B6ssischer-Quellen/dp/3899300904/
Early Islam: A Critical Reconstruction Based on Contemporary Sources (2013)
https://www.amazon.com/Early-Islam-Critical-Reconstruction-Contemporary/dp/161614825X
http://jaar.oxfordjournals.org/content/83/3/868.short?rss=1
press:
Absolutely. There's a great book about this topic: https://www.amazon.com/Gods-Philosophers-James-Hannam/dp/1848311508
Also, how is the Church not pro-sex now?
Nice.
Highly recommend:
Infidel
Age of Revolution
Pic of the others please?
Yep. Misquoting Jesus (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0060859512/)
The Christ Conspiracy (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0932813747/)
The exact opposite. It's the monotheists who go to war over Gods, because to them there can only be one. Polytheists didn't care, they just embraced them into their pantheon (of course they went to war for other reasons).
You clearly haven't read Jesus in the Talmud.
I am at least speaking metaphorically and I see metaphor as theater. Whether you are "disturbed" may depend on whether or not you see humanity as one race with one origin or many races with many origins. Self-identified Jews clearly see themselves as a race, and they will likely pay a price for their racist views. For a Jew to dodge my assault, they would simply have to see humanity as having one origin, there are no "races," and they could opt to step down from their view of being "chosen ones." Or if a Jew were to insist they are a race and that races come from multiple origins, they will have to own up to their racist anti-Gentilism, take responsibility for their criticisms of "Gentiles," and take responsibility for their irreverence of other religions written about in their Talmud - specifically Christianity. Alas, that is impossible, for Talmedic laws permit lying, and there is no way to tell if a Jew is lying unless he leaves the religion entirely.
The Talmud is the first anti-Christian bible, and in a way you could call it the first "Satanic" bible. Anton LaVey's "Satanic" bible is benevolent by comparison and barely "Satanic" if at all, considering it insists it is atheist-based.
Your being disturbed is your own ethnocentrism and inability to see through the eyes of a Jew, to understand the Jew, and to understand Jewish motivations and intentions.
A really good translation I've started reading is Tarif Khalidi's New Translation . It reads more in more of a novel format, very easy to read and supposedly (according to knowledgeable reviewers) it's rare in that it manages to retain a lot of the poetic beauty from the Quran in the way that it comes off in Arabic and is lost in a lot of the mainstream translations that tend to cut up the verses in detailing and exegises.
Has a really good and interesting preface and intro explaining some of what goes into translating and how it's been done over time as well as a whole slew of further reading recommendations. I got the Kindle version, which works nicely, although it has no markingsto let you know exactly what part of the Quran you're reading is (no Arabic in it either, it's 100% English. So I ordered the paperback to supplement my reading and allow me to know what Surahs I'm going through, since it does have numbered indexing.
> That makes the correlation to Bill Maher documentary even stronger in my opinion seeing how it came out 10 years ago.
bill maher isn't the source.
the source that popularized it was 2007-2011's zeitgeist, which makes such laughably bad point as "the sun" of god is "the son" of god, a pun that only happens to work in english when early christianity was dealing with greek and aramaic/hebrew.
the source for that, in turn, is 1999's the christ conspiracy by DM murdock (AKA acharya s), who seems to have a BA in classics, but lost the plot prior to actually publishing anything academic.
in turn, murdock's work is based on these sources from the 19th century:
> One of the more important aspects of Massey's writings were his assertions that there were parallels between Jesus and the Egyptian god Horus, primarily contained in the book The Natural Genesis first published in 1883. Massey, for example, argued in the book his belief that: both Horus and Jesus were born of virgins on 25 December, raised men from the dead (Massey speculates that the biblical Lazarus, raised from the dead by Jesus, has a parallel in El-Asar-Us, a title of Osiris), died by crucifixion and were resurrected three days later.^[7] These assertions have influenced various later writers such as Alvin Boyd Kuhn, Tom Harpur, Yosef Ben-Jochannan, and Dorothy M. Murdock.^[8][9][unreliable ^source?]
>> Christian ignorance notwithstanding, the Gnostic Jesus is the Egyptian Horus who was continued by the various sects of gnostics under both the names of Horus and of Jesus. In the gnostic iconography of the Roman Catacombs child-Horus reappears as the mummy-babe who wears the solar disc. The royal Horus is represented in the cloak of royalty, and the phallic emblem found there witnesses to Jesus being Horus of the resurrection.^[10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Massey
and of course this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World%27s_Sixteen_Crucified_Saviors
it's important to note that none of these people are proper scholars. and the original sources here seem to have just made things up.
A tough view. The use of pop, and children's, culture icon cartoon figures, the distracting background noise, and the really slow presentation of actual information/argument make the first vid hard to watch and really dilutes any message. Though I did like the cameo from the Little Caesars Pizza-Pizza guy. From watching the first vid, there is no topic argument/position statement explicitly made/presented, though if I had to guess as to the final topic position/argument, based upon the way the very sparse information is presented, that an argument will be made that supports the listed or attributed authors of the various books of the NT - this is just a guess, the presentation of introductory material was really incoherent.
> "One of the things I have noticed about critics who say that this or that book in the NT is bogus is that they seldom seem to explain in any detail how we decide who wrote a document."
Say what? I smell a strawman argument.
The above quote was made whilst a slide show of books that discuss the New Testament was shown. Some of these books are recognizable as titles containing literary criticism of the New Testament, many are not. I could not get a good look at the "examples" presented as the screen time was very short (compared to the relatively long time given to worthless animations of smurfs or topic transition special effects), too short to get a good look at the sources that I assume supports the above statement was quoted; I had to do a frame by frame advance to see/read the titles presented.
Let's look at the first few "references" presented:
Just between the book title and lack of authorship identification, without even reading the book description, is enough for anyone discussing NT literary criticism to reject the book as a credible source.Does not seem to be a reference to literary criticism and authorship of the New Testament books. Nope.
A book containing the personal journey of one man losing Religious Faith. Does not seem to be a reference to literary criticism and authorship of the New Testament books.
Examines the documentary hypothesis and other possible sources of much of the narrative of the Bible. Does not seem to be a reference to literary criticism and authorship of the New Testament books.
Look, another Dan Baker book already. A book against the reasonableness and rationality of Christian belief. Does not seem to be a reference to literary criticism and authorship of the New Testament books.
Finally, a book that appears to have sections that may address the authorship of selected New Testament writings (I say appears as I have not read it and am relying upon the publisher description, the TOC, and reviews) - though the book appears to be more directed towards the content of the NT rather than attributed source critism.
Bummer. Out of the first 5 potential references which one would reasonably consider as being presented on the authorship of the NT (you know, the topic/vid title), none (0 for 5) of them seem to be a reference to literary criticism of the authorship of the New Testament books. And I wanted to use the very references presented above to refute the strawman argument presented in the above quote that books/references that perform a literary criticism of the NT authorship (or the Bible in general) "seldom seem to explain in any detail how we decide who wrote a document."
Let's look at a popular writer on the New Testament, Bart D. Ehrman. An example, Forged: Writing in the Name of God--Why the Bible's Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are. And look at that, Ehrman does indeed present extensive detail, on the how's of literary criticism and attributed authorship. Granted one example does not a strawman break, however, I have found that references literary criticism, Biblical or other, almost always include a review of the methods used.
I don't think I'd be able to really stay updated, I never do with that sort of stuff. But, I have a reading list that you should add- that is if you are doing payed books:
For full on historians looking for depth in medieval subjects:
-Asbridge's The Crusades is a far better Crusades history that goes into good depth than any other I've read
-Morris' The Norman Conquest oncemore just a great book for depth and detail
-Jones' The Plantagenets this one I would avoid if you hate sensationalism in history, Dan Jones is a real historian and he writes it as a real historian but he's on the edge of being more entertainer level than educator level
-Moore's 2008 edition of The Formation of a Persecuting Society is definitely the best analysis of medieval heresy I've read
(+ for more details into his actual thought process and the full counter argument to his critics that came out against him later on )
For casual historians looking for analysis and shorter reads:
-Phillip's Holy Warriors is probably an overall better analysis than Asbridge but far less deep, if you like battles go for Asbridge but this is a far shorter read
-Asbridge's The Greatest Knight good book on the Plantagenets through the eyes of the knights
-Golding's Conquest and Colonisation a slightly more boring read, maybe go with the "A short introduction to" book isntead
-Pegg's A Most Holy War for lighter reading on medieval heresy
Look at Syria, Somalia, Bacha Bazi, Mao,Stalin, Jonestown, Kristallnacht, Rwandan Genocide...human beings desire what helps them and their friends at the expense of others
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As for Christianity's influence, check out these
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000SEV7OQ/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i3
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https://www.amazon.com/Under-Influence-Christianity-Transformed-Civilization/dp/0310236371/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=under+the+influence+schmidt&qid=1550452179&s=books&sr=1-1-catcorr
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https://www.amazon.com/Shame-Sin-Christian-Transformation-Antiquity/dp/0674660013/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=from+shame+to+sin&qid=1550452191&s=books&sr=1-1
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https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Science-Its/dp/0895269031/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=stanley+jaki&qid=1550452348&s=books&sr=1-6
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https://www.amazon.com/Gods-Philosophers-Medieval-Foundations-Science/dp/1848311508/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2U9CLH46W3A1O&keywords=god%27s+philosophers&qid=1550452394&s=books&sprefix=god%27s+phi%2Cstripbooks%2C127&sr=1-1
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This book will give you the historical lowdown. http://www.amazon.com/The-Christ-Conspiracy-Greatest-Story/dp/0932813747
Christianity grew out of preceding philosophies and faiths of the time, forced into being by a Roman emperor who wanted a coherent faith equally acceptable to all parts of a very extensive Roman Empire. This author is well versed in all the sources of the new syncretic religion, and all the points you mention are addressed here. Extensively footnoted from primary sources.
You don't mention whether you yourself are Christian. This information can be a shock if you have strong preconceived notions.
Recommendation: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0385721404?pc_redir=1404163101&robot_redir=1
I
Dont let the title fool you. It isnt about the crusades alone Karen Armstrong gives the history of the crusades while in parallel giving the history of the holy land's mondern conflict. She weaves them how wars faught hundreds of years ago still have an effect on the tumultuous landb of palestine.