Best christian death & grief books according to redditors
We found 196 Reddit comments discussing the best christian death & grief books. We ranked the 37 resulting products by number of redditors who mentioned them. Here are the top 20.
We found 196 Reddit comments discussing the best christian death & grief books. We ranked the 37 resulting products by number of redditors who mentioned them. Here are the top 20.
For an incredible counter-argument from someone exponentially smarter than I am, I recommend CS Lewis' book The Problem of Pain. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/The-Problem-Pain-C-Lewis/dp/0060652969
The question you're asking yourself is God moral? And if God is not moral then why should I serve him?
>The existence of suffering in a world created by a good and almighty God — "the problem of pain" — is a fundamental theological dilemma and perhaps the most serious objection to the Christian religion.
I recommend this book it'll answer your questions far better than I can. When it comes down to it and this for every person in any religion. Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Judaism.
>with fear and trembling your own salvation work out,
The Doors of the Sea by David Bentley Hart. There may be essays or lectures by him on this topic for shorter attention span, but I do not have those on hand.
Talk to your priest!
>And honestly I'm also afraid of doing the same thing over and over again in Heaven worshiping and playing church music 24/7.
This is an easy one - that's not what we believe is going to happen. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. If you want something to read about this, try Surprised by Hope.
How about NT Wright's Surprised by Hope?
Only 3 bucks if they got a kindle!
If you are really interested in this topic I would recommend you pick up N.T. Wright's Surprised by Hope
Here is an interview he did with TIME magazine: http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1710844,00.html
Here is a video interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZC6tbgpsl4&noredirect=1
Int. Auditorum
Christian walks up to podium, taps microphone
"Death is terrible."
applause
END
---
In between all the talk and speculation about Paradise/Heaven, it's easy to miss a few essential concepts to Christianity.
I mean, yeah, the Christian afterlife (pre and post-resurrection) are pretty great, but do not undersell how bad death actually is. The whole point of Jesus defeating death, and his coming victory over all that has been lost, and should never be sold short.
Surprised by Hope by N.T. Wright goes into this subject in excellent detail.
NT Wright has a great book on this topic called "Surprised by Hope" http://www.amazon.com/Surprised-Hope-N-T-Wright-ebook/dp/B0010SIPOY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397096717&sr=8-1&keywords=surprised+hope
It has the best description I have read about this issue from a Christian Perspective (and... it actually IS pretty surprising!). I did not find that it clashed my own beliefs in science, etc... indeed, it clarified them.
In actual fact, I submitted it because the headline is absolutely jaw-dropping.
I assume you think I submitted it because I wanted to score a point against religion. But that's ridiculous, since philosophers deal with the Problem of Pain all the time - it's nothing new.
What I'm really perplexed by is the fact that you seem quite threatened by this, as if you really think it is a point against you. What are you afraid of? Terrible things happen by the Will of the Almighty God all the time, and it's never bothered you before.
On the other hand, billions of human beings believe your religion is the direct path to Hell, and God has struck down five innocent adherents via its ultimate symbol. Perhaps I can understand your concern.
I think I first have to shatter a paradigm in your thinking.
Christianity isn't about getting into Heaven. Yes, a lot of churches in the West sell it as a "get out of Hell free" card. Yes, Jesus is "sold" to a lot of people that way. But that's not what the Bible really says, at least, not fully. It's a partial picture, at best, and a misguided one at worst.
Christianity, is first and foremost about God's work to lovingly restore mankind and creation to full life. Relationships are about distance, and it's about God closing that gap between us and Him.
What do I mean by, full life? The idea starts with us realizing that there is something deeply wrong and broken in the world, and in each of us, as individuals. We come from broken homes, warring countries, feuding families, a world of scarcity, pain, and death. We all feel inadequate in some way; there are these fault lines in our souls that we attempt to spackle over with things like relationships, hobbies, aspirations, occupations, other people's approval, etc.
We are literally slaves to death, in this paradigm. We strategize how to spend our remaining time, maximizing our comfort and happiness, and if we can, helping those we like along the way (often because they provide us with a kind of identification that makes us feel less precarious).
Christ (and the Law) were given to us to break us out from under that slavery.
The Bible tells us the Law came first to make us aware that we were even under slavery in the first place. Oftentimes, we're so broken, we actually prefer being in slavery. We can't see, hear, touch, taste, feel our enslavement - or if we can, we're so accustomed to it that we stick with it. Addicts are an extreme example of this, but there are manifestations of this in all our lives.
The Exodus story provides an early example of this. The Bible tells us it took the Israelites 40 years as they were guided by God to get from Egypt to Israel. Well, look on a map; they're not that far away. What took them so long? Was God, who was guiding them, lost?
The Rabbinic scholars basically sum it up thusly: God could take the Israelites out of Egypt in a heartbeat, but He also needed to take Egypt out of the Israelites.
When you're a slave for 400 years, you get accustomed to it. You move like a slave, you think like a slave, you sleep like a slave, you generally act like a slave. Your parents were slaves, and you will be too, so you don't even expect right from life any more.
But imagine, then God suddenly comes in and tells you, no, you're my child (aka, divine royalty) - and, all of the sudden, these former slaves are supposed to know how to act like royalty?
God made them stop many places along the way; taught them what victory looked and felt like, taught them to be conformed to His ways (literally, to begin moving like the King), and provided food, water, and everything they needed along the way during those 40 years of reconditioning.
(As a sidenote, I often hear critics of the Law approach the Law as a negative thing on the face of it. I want to challenge them to approach it as a good thing designed to give wisdom and life. Often times the amount of laws (613) is listed as this staggering amount that no man could keep. Well, yeah, God knows that. That's why no human being is supposed to keep all the Law. Certain Laws are only for men, or only for women, or only for priests, or only for subsets of priests, or only for certain occasions; etc. When someone lists the amount of Laws as their chief objections, I immediately say in my head, "Okay, this person doesn't know much about Torah law." But this may be neither here nor there in terms of chief objections).
So then, we have the Law and that that "Old Testament" stuff, and then Christ enters the picture and says things like:
>You have heard that it was said, Do not commit adultery. But I tell you, everyone who looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
What was Jesus getting at with things like this? He was pointing to a deeper reality that the Law can't serve as something that will bind up your cracks and make you presentable to God (much in the same way we use relationships, hobbies, aspirations, occupations, etc.) The people who were following the Law that way had missed the point! The Law highlights our absolute need for restoration (and a restorer!) by showing us exactly how we are broken.
This is where the Resurrection comes into play, because the ultimate reality of Jesus' work isn't to funnel souls into Heaven, but to prepare them for their own resurrection. There will be a day when God will restore the Earth (namely, by bringing the Kingdom of Heaven down to it), establishing his rule, and bringing it back to the Paradisical, Edenic state.
I mean, this might be a big concept to wrap your mind around now, but if you want to see the Biblical basis for this, check out N.T. Wright's Suprised by Hope. Jews always believed in the Resurrection and the world to come (aka, Tikkun Olam). The Orthodox Church has always preached the doctrine of the Resurrection. And it's in all the creeds. (Yes, Western Christianity has misunderstood and misrepresented it for ages).
So in a sense, you're kind of right about morality. Jesus isn't so concerned about morality as much as he is about relational distance. God wants to be close to you, to see your wounds, heal and restore them, and then use you to help restore others and all of creation (sidenote: this is why the Orthodox are particularly "green"). That's the fundamental nature of Grace, and truly, we are under Grace.
I mean, Paul practically wrote Romans 6 in response to your blog:
Seriously. Take a moment. Read the chapter. It answers just about every objection you raised, though I think in a way you wouldn't expect (because you set it up as a dichotomy, and really, there's a third way).
C.S. Lewis once said:
>We are so little reconciled to time that we are even astonished at it. “How he’s grown!” we exclaim, “How time flies!” as though the universal form of our experience were again and again a novelty. It is as strange as if a fish were repeatedly surprised at the wetness of water. And that would be strange indeed; unless of course the fish were destined to become, one day, a land animal.
Deep inside, even if we had the best life we could imagine for ourselves, we'd still know that something is seriously wrong in the world. This is because God didn't design us for sin and death, yet we experience it's effects on a daily basis.
In the end of the chapter, Paul talks about us being slaves to either sin, or slaves to righteousness. Being a slave to sin leads to death, because the wages of sin are death. Being a slave to righteousness leads to life, because it is close to God, the author of life.
Christianity isn't about "being good." It's not about getting all your holy ducks in a row and hoping it'll appease an angry God who wants to burn you forever and ever and ever.
It's all about relational proximity. God is drawing close to us, particularly through the advent, death, and resurrection of Christ, and yes, thank God He's more interested in restoring everything than he is in destroying it.
May I suggest the following, and God bless you all: https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Pain-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652969/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1509885464&sr=1-1&keywords=the+problem+of+pain
>Humility is simply acknowledging the truth of his position as creature and yielding to God his place - Andrew Murray
When we know our true position according to God, sin can not stand a chance to our new creation [biblehub.com]
See you on NewEarth friend
>I feel empty
>
>lack of God’s presence in my heart
Don't take this the wrong way, but feelings are irrelevant. Jesus asks you to assent to and accept the gospel and the beliefs of the Church; he doesn't ask you to feel anything. You don't need to emote anything to be saved.
Sometimes we go through spiritual deserts where we feel nothing and it seems - it seems - we pray into the void and labor in our duties under an empty sky. We still pray and do our duty.
>If the devil was responsible for my depression, then why didn’t an all-powerful God save me from it in my prayers?
This is a trial for you. The command to take up your cross is absolutely real. No one said it was going to be easy.
Regarding why God would do this to you, I would suggest reading The Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis.
I would continue therapy. Continue to pray as you have. It's possible you may use medication temporarily or permanently. It's possible your life situation may change - I went through a phase like this at this age, and then later I got married and had children and it passed. But I stopped going to Mass at the time and it would have been better if I had continued.
Edited to add: I've been meaning to read this other book as well: The Catholic Guide to Depression by Aaron Kheriarty.
Read and pray some of the Psalms, such as Psalm 22: O my God, I cry by day, but thou dost not answer; and by night, but find no rest etc.
David Bently Hart can come off a bit snarky sometimes but he wrote a nice essay entitled "The Doors of the Sea: Where was God in the Tsunami?". It's worth checking out.
I'm not sure where I land on this, but here are a few possibilities and resources I know of for looking into them a bit more in depth:
As I said i'm not sure what makes most sense. I think the problem of evil is the biggest intellectual difficulty for theism in general and Christianity in particular.
Here's a good place to start.
Basically, when you interpret all of Jesus' references to resurrection in the context of Judaism, you'll find that when he says resurrection he doesn't just mean heaven. He means a PHYSICAL rebirth. It's in some of the epistles of Paul as well as mentioned in Revelation (New Jerusalem, "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth...", etc.)
I hate to keep plugging him, but N.T. Wright wrote an entire book about this idea.
The Problem of Pain is a good book on it.
Many people (such as I) approach the problem intellectually; but it's not an intellectual argument (though it is one of only two objections Aquinas brings against the existence of God).
> if Earth is not our real home
Earth is our real home, in some sense. Heaven as most people think of it is the antechamber of the New Creation. (Ever read The Silmarillion? That's what the Halls of Mandos are.) In any case, the New Creation is the current creation redeemed. We are not disembodied souls if we are saved---we are resurrected, body and soul. In the Nicene Creed that's what the line "the resurrection of the body" refers to.
For more on this, read N.T. Wright, Surprised by Hope. It's a pretty brief read.
as he said, he's got a book coming out about this topic
https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Keith-Giles/dp/1938480473
i havent read it but it does have a forward by brad jersak - who i think knows his stuff about this.
https://www.clarion-journal.com/clarion_journal_of_spirit/2019/09/harts-that-all-will-be-saved-i.html
Great post. If you think about it, those issues are all central to Christianity. Why does God allow shit to hit the fan? Why, if he's so powerful, did he send himself (in the form of Jesus) to essentially be a powerless Hobbit?
Heck, Lewis even has a book called The Problem of Pain.
I always wondered why N.T. Wright didn't see that he was right at the threshold of Universalism refusing to cross over. I remember reading one particular quote from "Surprised By Hope" and thinking "you're almost there! You've opened the door, just step inside!" The quote:
>Likewise, the majestic but mysterious ending of the Revelation of John leaves us with fascinating and perhaps frustrating hints of future purposes, further work of which the eventual new creation is just the beginning. The description of the New Jerusalem in chapters 21 and 22 is quite clear that some categories of people are “outside”: the dogs, the fornicators, those who speak and make lies. But then, just when we have in our minds a picture of two nice, tidy categories, the insiders and the outsiders, we find that the river of the water of life flows out of the city; that growing on either bank is the tree of life, not a single tree but a great many; and that “the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.” There is a great mystery here, and all our speaking about God’s eventual future must make room for it. This is not at all to cast doubt on the reality of final judgment for those who have resolutely worshiped and served the idols that dehumanize us and deface God’s world. It is to say that God is always the God of surprises.
you're too quick to assume suffering is evil, and i'm not saying inflicting suffering on another is a good thing either hahaha. for a better answer, look into this http://www.amazon.com/Problem-Pain-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652969/ref=cm_lmf_tit_5. And i think you should consider perspective as well. If the world were more perfect less dramatic things would seem worse. Sorta like ying and yang without darkness one could not understand light
The heaven of popular culture is not the heaven of the Bible. For one, Jesus taught of a heaven that is present now. He often said things like, "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand" and he told his followers to tell people, "The Kingdom of Heaven has come near to you". The Kingdom of Heaven is a present reality for those in Christ.
Also, the floating in the clouds with gold harps as a final destination is also off. The clearest picture of eternity in the Bible is Revelation 21-22, and even that you can't read too literally. The Christian hope isn't to escape from earth to heaven, but rather for heaven to come to earth in the resurrection. For a better picture of new creation, the resurrection, and the hope of Christians see N.T. Wright's Surprised by Hope.
If at any point you'd like to join us, you're welcome. The gates will always be open.
A bit of warning and advice to all who might ask this same question: don't ask hard questions if you won't accept hard answers.
Also: this question has been raised and dealt with so many times -- I would recommend the many books on that that will a) give a better explanation than I can and b) raise a better objection that you can.
Start with this: http://www.amazon.com/Problem-Pain-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652969
My first step into the world of progressive Christianity was Brian McLaren’s A New Kind of Christian series. I really liked Scot McKnight’s blog as well. Eventually I found NT Wright; I definitely recommend his Surprised by Hope. You should check out Sojourners magazine, which has some really great content as well.
Read Surprised By Hope by N.T. Wright. The concept of "Heaven" as a destination (as presented by the pastor you heard) is a lot different than the "New Heaven and New Earth" we are promised.
Jesus is the first fruits of a physical resurrection. He ate with the disciples to prove this point.
Jesus Among Other Gods
and
Problem of Pain
are two that come to my mind. I think both are great reads for non-believers who were raised Christian or have a solid understanding of Christianity.
$2 for Rejoicing in Lament is an absolute steal. Grab it now - the time will come when it will be helpful for you to read.
Also, John Piper makes his books available to download for free at his website. No reason to pay Amazon even just $3 for them.
My current favorite is Surprised by Hope. I like to leaf through it a little bit at a time. His writing is very accessible and not overly heavy or ponderous. I find this book very comforting.
A dear friend gave me a copy of The Things You Can See Only When You Slow Down. It's also fun to read a few pages at a time. Just some brief meditations/observations. Very easy read, not heavy.
For lighthearted fun I like to read a little bit of Rumpole. I have most of these on my shelf and on my Kindle and Nook books. I also like to watch the DVD's of the old BBC series. I think Leo McKern is an excellent Rumpole. I like that the TV adaptations are very much true to the books.
I also like to read some Bertie Wooster and Jeeves stories. They are easy to pick up and put down. I enjoy the light-hearted and gentle humor of these. I like most of the Wodehouse stuff, but my favorites include Jeeves and Wooster. Here's another one I like to watch the DVDs. Hugh Laurie as Bertie and Stephen Fry as Jeeves are really enjoyable, and also true to the books.
If you're interested in this topic, you should read CS Lewis's "The Problem of Pain."
Thanks, but the PDF didn't load, and it's discouraging to see 'resources' misspelled.
Reading his bio, I am reminded of Joni Tada's testimony about attending such revival+healing events to no avail. She attended multiple healing events and, together with many others suffering paralysis, was never healed. It seems they're only good for power-of-suggestion temporary healings. Have you seen an amputee healed by this man? Vision problems healed? I'm praying for healing for both problems.
I'm praying for healing in basically every way possible (except animal sacrifice).
There's an excellent view of world to come in NT Wright's book Surprised by Hope: Rethinking Heaven, the Resurrection, and the Mission of the Church. In short, the angels-playing-harps-on-clouds view of heaven is completely unsupported by the Bible, and there's a world of things to do and make better, absolutely well-suited to our being human.
We will be praising God in our work, just as we praise God in our work on Earth. And there will be amazingly awesome choirs and things for standing around and going "Great is our God," just as we have pretty good choirs for that on Earth. But it's absolutely not all we're doing.
Lots of people have asked this question. It's a subset of the problem of evil.
For a specifically Christian answer (not necessarily the answer), check out C.S. Lewis' The Problem of Pain.
Some other books on the topic of eschatology (the "end times") worth reading (or listening to):
NT Wright's Surprised by Hope
Kenneth Meyer's The End Is Near...Or Maybe Not!
>i know jews don't believe in hell; is it only mentioned in the nt?
Hell is in both testaments. Hell in the Old Testament is mostly known as the abode of the dead that was called Sheol or sometimes the pit. It could either represent the grave, or the afterlife. It was apparently divided into two places, a place for the righteous dead, and a place for the wicked dead. For an example of the wicked side of Sheol see passages like Ezekiel 32:17-32.
Jews, and then later, Christians, believed in a general resurrection of the dead, some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting death.
>i've heard the rare argument from a christian that hell is metaphorical; what is the point of disagreement?
I wouldn't call it a rare argument, as its rather well accepted. The idea that the imagery used is metaphorical comes from a number of clues within the imagery itself. First of all, when Jesus refers to "hell" in passages like Matthew 5 or Mark 9, the Greek is the word Gehenna. The Valley of the Son of Hinnom, from which the word comes, was a place mentioned in the Old Testament where followers of Baal sacrificed children by passing them through fire. The place was considered cursed by the Jews, and was later turned into a rubbish dump that continually burned day and night. The metaphor is invoking the imagery of this place. Other places in scripture hell is described as a bottomless pit or abyss, a lake, darkness, death, destruction, everlasting torment, etc. I mean, these all can't be literal descriptors of the place... you can't have a place that's both an abyss, or a bottomless pit, and a lake of fire, you can't have fire, and also a place of utter darkness. And other clear figures of speech are used throughout the Bible, so it isn't only hell that is exempt from a literal interpretation. Hell then seems to be eternal separation from the creator, and this separation appears to cause anxiety and torment.
I suppose the point of disagreement then is that some read the Bible in a more literal sense than others even where the Bible does not exactly grant an overly literal reading. I've seen both Christians and atheists read the Bible from an overly literal perspective. Most of the time, this is because they're reading the book as if it were written yesterday. When reading the Bible, or any ancient work, its needful to understand the historical context, the genre, and the original audience. Same is true of works written in the 1800s. You can't read Romance literature of the 1800s without some background on the context and the intentional use of metaphor and symbolism, so why expect you can with a book thousands of years older.
>is that similar to the jewish position at all?
The NT view would be a Jewish view (specifically, Jews of the Hellenistic period) since the NT was largely authored by Jews.
>how much does scripture play a role in these conceptions as opposed to tradition?
I'd say that scripture plays the larger of the roles. Tradition has added some concepts like Purgatory, and then later in Dante's Inferno we have all sorts of new imagery added that people use in popular media, but all of that can be stripped away by looking at what the Bible actually has to say.
If you're seriously interested in this subject, I think theologian, NT Wright's book, Surprised by Hope: Rethinking Heaven, the Resurrection, and the Mission of the Church is a terrific, and easy to read introduction into the actual beliefs by both ancient Jew and Christians on the nature of the afterlife. Its only $17 something on Amazon right now.
Jesus ascended into heaven in a glorified body. When he rose from the grave, he looked different. Some suspected he was a ghost (i.e. purely spiritual), but he made clear that he was not a spirit. He was phyiscal, and yet he did not have an earthly body but a heavenly resurrected body.
The bible clearly tells us that we will one day join him and be given similar bodies:
"The Lord Jesus Christ... will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body." (Philippians 3:20-21)
"As just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bare the likeness of the man from heaven". (1 Cor 15:49)
Therefore the type of things Jesus was able to do after his resurrection are things we can expect to do in heaven (e.g. eat, talk, walk). When he ascended, he did not materialize into some ghost like spirit, but kept his physical resurrected body. Just as Jesus ate on earth, we are promised to eat and drink in heaven. Do not be tempted to think of Heaven as completely spiritual and void of all matter. It is in many ways a physical place with physical bodies, physical food and physical houses.
If you are interested in further study, I highly recommend:
Heaven - Randy Alcorn
It smashes many of the myths that Christians (and thus popular culture) have developed over the centuries regarding heaven by examining the bible over traditional stories.
Sorry if I was unclear on that in my first comment! I think suffering for good is the only kind of suffering Christianity accepts; not that all suffering can be explained or justified in terms of bringing some kind of good. So I don't believe or want to believe that everything happens for a reason or whatever. God can bring good out of anything that happens, but a lot of stuff that happens is just plain tragic, meaningless, and/or evil.
Some Christians believe in a less-interventionist God (although if someone believed that God never made interventions in the natural world, I don't see how they could be a Christian). As I understand it, being a Christian means believing that God's one really major intervention... is in the form of Jesus. Everything God is doing in the world, every project he is omnipotently working on, his "method" for accomplishing it is Jesus. Jesus is God's plan to put an end to death.
I wonder if you would enjoy reading David Bentley Hart's The Doors of the Sea: Where Was God in the Tsunami? I have only read excerpts from it, but folks I know who have read the whole thing really valued it. He is a very sensitive theologian who seeks tough questions and avoids easy answers. I don't agree with him about everything, but I think I do agree with his basic argument in that book.
Praying With The One You Love
Surprised By Hope
The first one I am currently reading with my fiancee and I highly recommend to strengthen your relationship with your girlfriend and with God.
The second is one I just received yesterday in the mail. I know there's some debate on his New Perspective of Paul but from what I've read, one of his greatest works is Surprised By Hope and is something everyone can appreciate.
>"And now I cannot see in [my]self what I see in others - hope, potential, and greatness. I see that in every person, but myself. I have this ability to see more in every broken person that I encounter. I see past each person's mistakes and past. I see what this person can become. That gives me the chance to show this person the greatness within them.
So I end up living a life telling other[s] how great they can be. Yet I see nothing in me."
This is hauntingly and beautifully written. Your words are remind me of what I had been struggling with these past couple years. I started to withdraw myself from everyone and found myself on a dark, narrow, lonely path with nothing but my own imperfections and failed potential staring me back in the face. No matter how I tried to be positive and find the good in myself, it never worked. Being an INFJ, I've always felt the burdens of the whole world and all the people that I've known weigh on me. Even if I hadn't talked to a friend in the longest time, I would feel for them some semblance of an endearing love; I would want the best for them, for them to be happy and be the best they could ever be. I hated that I cared so much for them and this caused me to withdraw even more. My friends thought I stopped talking to them because I stopped caring, but that was never the case. I didn't want to burden them with any of my problems and it was just too hard to deal with all their issues when I, myself was not sorted out. I am currently in my 6th year of college, with my planned graduation in a year or so. Although I have received so many undeserved chances, I have kept struggling with my issues and kept questioning the world around me and being upset at myself for not being able to do what I knew I wanted for me to have done. Only recently, have I finally started to feel like I am living for the first time. I won't go into too much detail, but it was centered around my faith and also medication that helped me to face myself. Although I am not completely well yet, I feel that I am slowly making progress and beginning to appreciate the personality traits that I carry and accept myself for who I am.
I cannot promise you that it will get better. I cannot say that you will one day accept yourself and be happy with who you are. You will always care for other people. No matter how much you hate it, you will always have an unwarranted sense of responsibility for all the other humans in this world. It won't be easy, but please don't give up. If you drift down the indifferent and apathetic road, you will just wake up months/years later and be in the same position, most likely more depressed and more crushed. Start small and work from there. I started watching videos and reading encouraging books. I started to keep a journal where everyday, I write three things that I am thankful for in my life. Don't overthink things and don't make it more complicated than it is. My whole life I've tried to figure it all out by thinking everything through and in the end I would just end up a hopeless mess that was worse off then I started. Stop thinking about how miserable you are or all the missed opportunities you had. You can't change any of those, but what you can do is change what you do starting from today. Think about all the things that you are grateful for that are important to you. Hold on to those things and protect them. Remember the most important thing to INFJ's is to work on yourself first. Focus on yourself and what you know you need to do. Even though it seems contrary to who you are, force yourself to do that, because you can actually help others better if you yourself are more stable and of sound mind. I know you feel all alone and that you've dug yourself in a humongous hole. Don't worry! We are all here with you ;]. Take baby steps and maybe one day you will find yourself in a place where you can use this experience to help someone else who is struggling through a similar situation!
Nope, you're incorrect. The idea of an eternal soul and "evil" body that perishes is modern Christian thought that is a concession to platonic philosophy. It's our own little form of gnosticism.
Most Christians get it wrong and like this idea of fleeting to heaven when, in fact, there is no scriptural evidence to support the idea that Christians sorta peace out. You can blame the "Left Behind" series of books for that.
Anyway, if you'd like further reading into the scholarship that is trying to change that thought, I'd recommend you check out N.T. Wright's "Surprised by Hope" as he attempts to correct this issue (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0061551821).
But yeah, Chocobean shouldn't really have even said anything, the original comment was pretty funny and didn't need nickled and dimed based on its theology.
Surprised by Hope by NT Wright.
Along with his scholarly work on the Resurrection, The Resurrection of the Son of God, quite literally changed the way I looks at my faith.
Alrightyyyyyyy. Let's get to it. By no means take my word to be truth, but I will try to answer your questions to the best of my ability. If anyone sees where I've messed up, call me out on it.
First off, I am incredibly glad to see your enthusiasm! As someone only slightly older than you, it really makes me happy to see someone even slightly interested in the Faith.
I hope I have helped even slightly with your questions and hopefully other users will be able to offer a different insight into this for you. Feel free to ask any questions. Best of luck!
Book recommendation are:
Don't Waste Your Cancer for a short, quick injection of hope and how to transform the hospital experience, &
Suffering & the Sovereignty of God for a slightly longer treatment of how to cope with suffering as Christians.
Both are by John Piper and together should cost you under $20.
I'll throw Randy Alcorn's Heaven in the mix. Its a little long winded and has a candid evangelical slant but his attitude agrees with you, if not all of his theology. He emphasizes stewardship as well as pointing out there will be work to do when heaven comes to earth. It won't be all harps, clouds and singing songs.
The book I recommend most is Surprised by Hope by NT Wright. Among other things, it explains what the actual afterlife taught by Christ and the apostles is, which surprisingly few modern Christians are aware of, and portrays Christianity as life-centric rather than death-centric.
Doors of the Sea by David Bentley Hart
God without Being by Jean-Luc Marion
They don't necessarily have to do with your topics, however you can get some of the answers based on inference. The first one goes over the problem of evil and the second one goes over what one means by the term "God". David Bentley Hart is an Eastern Orthodox theologian and Jean-Luc Marion is a French Catholic Philosopher.
Part 3: Book recommendations:
If you want to dig deep into this topic, here are some book recommendations. Perhaps you would want to read N.T. Wright's Christian Origins and the Question of God series (this is very heavy, scholarly reading). N.T. Wright is the foremost scholar on the New Testament and this is possibly the most thorough literature on the historical Jesus, early Christianity and the Apostle Paul:
https://www.logos.com/product/37361/christian-origins-and-the-question-of-god-series
Anything by N.T. Wright is well worth reading (Simply Christian and Surprised by Hope would be good introductions). Likewise, anything by Ravi Zacharias.
The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona: https://www.amazon.ca/Case-Resurrection-Jesus-Gary-Habermas/dp/0825427886
Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus: A Devout Muslim Encounters Christianity by Nabeel Qureshi: https://www.amazon.com/Books-Nabeel-Qureshi/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_27%3ANabeel%20Qureshi
No God But One: Allah or Jesus?: A Former Muslim Investigates the Evidence for Islam and Christianity by Nabeel Qureshi: https://www.amazon.com/God-but-One-Investigates-Christianity/dp/0310522552/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1517050609&sr=1-2&refinements=p_27%3ANabeel+Qureshi
On Guard by William Lane Craig: https://www.amazon.ca/Guard-William-Lane-Craig/dp/1434764885/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526542104&sr=8-1&keywords=on+guard+william+lane+craig
The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus by Lee Strobel: https://www.amazon.ca/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310339308
Bonus reading: Heaven by Randy Alcorn: https://www.amazon.ca/Heaven-Randy-Alcorn/dp/0842379428/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1526542237&sr=1-1&keywords=randy+alcorn+heaven
Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis: https://www.amazon.ca/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926
Read anything by G.K. Chesterton, especially, The Everlasting Man
Answers to Common Objections and Questions:
Jesus’ Resurrection and Christian Origins: http://ntwrightpage.com/2016/07/12/jesus-resurrection-and-christian-origins/
The Evidence for Jesus: https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/jesus-of-nazareth/the-evidence-for-jesus/
The Resurrection of Jesus: https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/jesus-of-nazareth/the-resurrection-of-jesus/
The Resurrection of Jesus Christ as Christianity's Centerpiece: http://www.cslewisinstitute.org/The_Resurrection_of_Jesus_Christ_as_Christianitys_Centerpiece_FullArticle?fbclid=IwAR0oE22vtBvR2u--R78tSyW-51OpIbWBfWDNH2Ep8miBc9W6uUJMwMsz0yk
Origin, Meaning, Morality and Destiny: http://rzim.org/just-thinking/think-again-deep-questions/
Accompanying video to the link above: Why is Christianity True?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5qJPZySo7A
How Do You Know Christianity Is the One True Way of Living? | Abdu Murray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14ze_SVg-0E&app=desktop
What makes Christianity unique among the world’s religions? Verifiability is a Christian Distinctive: https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/verifiability-is-a-christian-distinctive/
Is Jesus God? (Feat. Craig, Strobel, Habermas, Licona, Qureshi...): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dLoKCyDDAg&app=desktop
How Can Understanding Eyewitness Testimony Help Us Evaluate the Gospels?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tCDDsPXQSQ&app=desktop
Historical Evidence for the Resurrection - Can a Scientist Believe in the Resurrection? - Nabeel Qureshi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hD7w1Uja2o
Questioning Jesus: Critically Considering Christian Claims with Dr. Nabeel Qureshi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UpuEDp4ObA
Did Jesus Rise From the Dead? | Yale 2014 | William Lane Craig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NAOc6ctw1s&app=desktop
Historical Resurrection of Christ?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Dc01HVlaM
Are The New Testament Documents Historically Credible?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgdsIaqFAp4
Are the Gospels Accurate?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxrDy_G8h88
(Answer to the common objection: ‘the gospels are anonymous’)
Gospel Authorship—Who Cares?: https://www.reasonablefaith.org/question-answer/P40/gospel-authorshipwho-cares
What is the Evidence That Jesus Appeared Alive After His Death?: https://youtu.be/96WIa3pZISE
On Extra-Biblical Sources for Jesus' Post-Mortem Appearances: https://youtu.be/-Dbx7PPIIsQ
Did Jesus Rise From The Dead Or Was It A Hoax By His Followers?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aELRKdxV7Wk
Follow up to the previous video: Did Jesus rise from the dead, or was it hallucinations by his followers?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29224I3x_M0&feature=youtu.be
Did the Disciples Invent the Resurrection?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOHUWsNDPZc
Facts to show the Resurrection is not fiction, by William Lane Craig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AduPVkqbis
Did Paul actually see the risen Jesus, or did he simply have some sort of vision?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yNdynwqtWI&t
What Do You Mean By ‘Literal?’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxQpFosrTUk
Evidence For Jesus' Resurrection: https://youtu.be/4iyxR8uE9GQ?t=1s
Death, Resurrection and Afterlife: https://youtu.be/HXAc_x_egk4?t=1s
Did Jesus Really Rise From The Dead?: https://youtu.be/KnkNKIJ_dnw?t=1s
4 Historical Facts That Prove Jesus Really Did Rise From The Dead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmKg62GDqF4
What About Pre-Christ Resurrection Myths?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrCYVk6xrXg
Jesus and Pagan Mythology: Is Jesus A Copied Myth or Real Person?: https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/question-answer/jesus-and-pagan-mythology/
Zeitgeist - Is Jesus A Myth: https://alwaysbeready.com/zeitgeist-the-movie
Did Greco-Roman myths influence the Gospel accounts of the resurrection of Jesus?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pt9rlG7ABo&app=desktop
Does the Resurrection Require Extraordinary Evidence?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLN30A0vmlo
Moral Argument For God’s Existence: How Can A Good God Allow Evil? Does Life Have Meaning?: https://youtu.be/it7mhQ8fEq0
Are there Inconsistencies Between the Four Gospels?: https://youtu.be/sgdsIaqFAp4
Why Are There Differences in the Resurrection Accounts?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtz2lVGmXFI
Don't the Gospels Contradict One Another?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gt9kCwttVY
Why Differences Between the Gospels Demonstrate Their Reliability: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zimP8m3_hCk
Why the Gospels Can Differ, Yet Still Be Reliable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An5wU2hxIfM
Four Reasons the New Testament Gospels Are Reliable: http://coldcasechristianity.com/2015/four-reasons-the-new-testament-gospels-are-reliable/
Find Contradictions in the Bible All You Want: https://www.thepoachedegg.net/2019/05/apologetics-find-contradictions-in-the-bible-all-you-want.html
The Case for the Historicity and Deity of Jesus: https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/the-case-for-the-historicity-and-deity-of-jesus/
Bart Ehrman is one of the world's most renowned ancient historians/New Testament scholars, and he is an atheist. Listen to what he has to say on the matter of Jesus' existence: The Historical Jesus DID Exist - Bart Ehrman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43mDuIN5-ww
Bart D Ehrman About the Historical Jesus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6U6TJ4cwSo
Extra-Biblical evidence: In addition to the gospel accounts and the letters from the Apostle Paul, we have sources outside the New Testament with references to Jesus in the writings of Josephus, Tacitus, Thallus, the Jewish Talmud, etc:
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2017/is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside-the-bible/
Is There Extrabiblical Evidence About Jesus' Life?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzP0Kz9eT_U&app=desktop
How do we know Jesus was really who he said he was?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ksvhHEoMLM&app=desktop
YouTube Channels to browse:
William Lane Craig - ReasonableFaithOrg: https://www.youtube.com/user/ReasonableFaithOrg?app=desktop
drcraigvideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/drcraigvideos?app=desktop
Ravi Zacharias - Ravi Zacharias International Ministries: https://www.youtube.com/user/rzimmedia?app=desktop
J. Warner Wallace - Cold-Case Christianity with J. Warner Wallace: https://www.youtube.com/user/pleaseconvinceme/featured?disable_polymer=1
The Bible Project: https://www.youtube.com/user/jointhebibleproject
Unbelievable?: https://www.youtube.com/user/PremierUnbelievable
David Wood - Acts17Apologetics: https://www.youtube.com/user/Acts17Apologetics
Nabeel Qureshi - NQMinistries: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCepxnLs6GWAxAyI8m2U9s7A/featured?disable_polymer=1
Randy Alcorn - Eternal Perspective Ministries with Randy Alcorn: https://www.youtube.com/user/eternalperspectives?app=desktop
Frank Turek - Cross Examined: https://www.youtube.com/user/TurekVideo
Brian Holdsworth: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdsworthdesign
"Don't Blame God!" is really good.
https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Blame-God-ebook/dp/B005LILUWI/ref=sr_1_3?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1315426677&sr=1-3
It's a non-fiction.
The cure for melancholy and overmuch sorrow - Richard Baxter.
https://www.amazon.com/Cure-Melancholy-Overmuch-Sorrow-Faith-ebook/dp/B003FGX08K
It's a complex question with a complex answer. If we take our sources seriously, then our first clue lies in the Ascension in Acts 1. After Jesus moves up into the clouds, two angels appear and tell the Eleven that Jesus will return in the same way he left. So, we either take this that he will descend back down, or it will be a shocking event that we don't expect.
Acts 2 includes the pouring out of the Holy Spirit, which could be construed as the return, but that requires a reading of John, which Luke would not have and thus likely should not be considered an interpretation of the text.
Okay, but what about what Jesus said, because that's what really matters, right? Well, we have only a few bits of text outside of the Olivet discourses. As for those, Matt 24-25, Mark 13, Luke 21, they are a bit crazy. You have what appear to be clear allusions to the sack of Jerusalem, which make sense in regards to the prompt for the whole discussion regarding the stones of the Temple. But then comes the more abstract notions of things passing away or the goats and the sheep, so how literal do we need to be regarding all of this?
Honestly, allegorize it, because Paul does with the Thessalonians in his second letter. Heck, that's what the Church historically has done with this material. The key is not how Jesus returns, but that he will return.
So, how come Jesus never came back? Because it isn't the time to come back. We're almost done getting his name to every language on this planet, and we may have other people among the stars to tell as well. I mean, Christianity grew silently for the first three hundred years, spurted out for a century in the Roman Empire, silently again until 1500 with colonialism, though I would contend that the true growth in that regard, much like in Rome, came also silently through the true-hearted missionaries and Christians who lived the faith.
Here's an excellent book that I think really encapsulates eschatology and the mission of the church. I know I used quite a few odd words, so if you have questions, I'd be happy to clarify or expound a bit more.
> if I needed to, I could go to a school and learn all about such things and do experiments
But of course, you will not do that. You'd see it as a waste of time. There are people who claim that they've done so. And you trust them. Because your heuristics about people say so, not because you verified the science.
> use that in experiments and make reliable predictions. I do wish such things were testable and verifiable.
Try these:
Glimpsing Heaven
Extraordinary Knowing
These aren't proof in their own right, but they should give you ideas of what you could test if you wanted. Extraordinary Knowing could point you to research that has been done, is rigorous, and does favor the existence of psychic phenomena (though not about spirit life in particular).
You could take steps to try and test and verify this for yourself. One easy way might be to go to a good hypnotist and do several regressions. If the regressions are clear enough, details might come to you that you have no way of knowing, and which you can subsequently verify. Not proof of reincarnation, but subjectively strong evidence.
There are ways to test and verify, and it doesn't take much to come up with ideas how to do so. It's not even nearly as hard as measuring the electron, or finding the Higgs boson. We just don't want to.
Maybe have him read a book. This one helped me.
Suffering and the Sovereignty of God by John Piper and Justin Taylor
https://www.amazon.com/Suffering-Sovereignty-God-John-Piper/dp/1581348096
I'm glad you recognize that this problematic pattern of behavior has transferred over. This might sound strange, but there are resources to learn pastoral care best practices. Some are aimed for humanist chaplains. It might help you to learn better patterns. I'd also like to recommend Judaism Unbound podcast, because they have people who have thought long and hard about the complexities you're describing. I haven't read these, as I just found them last night, but I'm thinking about reading them. The Practice of Pastoral Care, Revised and Expanded Edition: A Postmodern Approach https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SVSGW0A/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_way1Cb5H3BPB7. The Practice of Pastoral Care, Revised and Expanded Edition: A Postmodern Approach https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SVSGW0A/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_way1Cb5H3BPB7. https://youtu.be/ACJk9ZSGomk
Read N.T. Wright's Surprised by Hope. Oh, several Bible texts talk about the Second Coming. Acts 1 comes to mind.
> This makes Colton Burpo the only little adorable liar to still claim he died, saw God, and then came back and cashed in.
Hah! What?
Richard Sigmund
Trudy Harris (on behalf of others)
Mary Neal
Eben Alexander
Marvin Besteman
Crystal McVea
Dale Black
James Garlow (on behalf of others)
Seneca Sodi
Sid Roth (on behalf of others)
Reggie Anderson
and on and on and Ariston...
>Unnecessary suffering, and some of it is absolutely horrific.
Here is a book written by a far smarter guy than me about the Problem with Pain and Suffering. http://www.amazon.com/The-Problem-Pain-C-Lewis/dp/0060652969
> I don't want to suffer, but that choice is taken out of my hands. I don't want to go to hell, but the only criteria I have to make that determination is ridiculous old stories from various religions and denominations. That is God's fault.
You have a choice in how you deal with every situation. Things happen to us that are out of our control, which is an aspect of a free world. Just because you didn't choose for something to happen doesn't mean you have a choice in how you react to it, for good or for ill. You don't want to go to hell, but you have the choice to either believe that hell is real or it isn't, and to live your life accordingly. You might be totally right, or you could be terribly wrong. But you have the choice to decide if it's real or not.
>You missed my point. Or, more precisely, the rest of that paragraph. "The child has a choice! At some predetermined date that is unknown to the child, if the child has not decided to worship the parent beating him, then the child will be beaten without mercy until the end of time. All the child has to do is truly love the parent..."
Sorry for not addressing this. While it is the popular belief of many Christians that hell is a place of eternal suffering, well, read this and see that some doctrine's have been kind of made up on the subject.
http://www.godsplanforall.com/mistranslationstomeanhell
>YES. That is exactly what it means. Parents are responsible for keeping their children out of harm's way, and they do everything possible to keep their child safe while allowing their child to learn how to operate in the reality that he lives in. Unlike parents, however, God isn't stuck in our reality, with extremely limited means to teach young people how to not hurt themselves.
You are saying that a parent should hover over their child constantly, 24/7, right over their shoulder, to make sure that no harm comes to them? Do you have kids? To do something like that would be smothering them! It wouldn't allow them to grow, and if you were there to punish them every single time they did something wrong, they would resent you. Eventually you need to let your kids make their own decisions. If the child was 12 and he was running through the house, is it still the parents fault? That child knows better by that point.
> So I cannot believe in God. So if God did have a presence in this world, and I still didn't believe in him, should I be tortured forever? And if I fought against that injustice, would you think that I was wrong to do so?
If I believed that God would torture you forever if you didn't believe him, then yes you wouldn't be wrong to fight against that. However, like the article above, I don't think God sends people to Hell forever. That was a question I struggled with when my friend (who was a non-believer), was killed in an accident. I just don't see how a just God could send someone to hell for eternity for a finite lifetime of actions, especially one cut so short.
Other people have made good recommendations, but I have to say that Surprised by Hope by N.T. Wright is the book that gave me a faith worth having.
I'll buy you a copy if you can't afford one.
If you want something really good pertaining to the topic at hand, I recommend N. T. Wright's excellent book Surprised by Hope. It is the best articulation I've seen of a Biblical view of heaven and resurrection and whatnot (or, to use Wright's phrase, "life after death and life after life after death).
>We will actually be living on New Earth, and I believe (though I don't have a lot of evidence for this) that we will have a profession and be part of a society. This existence will be infinitely better than our current one because we will be in constant contact with our creator, but I think it will be anything but dull or repetitious.
NT Wright does an excellent job of exploring this in Surprised by Hope.
I have wrestled with anxiety and panic attacks for 10+ years. My faith has helped me so much. Anxiety and fear can often point us to things that we idolize or elevate above God. I too had horrible withdrawls and will never go back to meds. Writing in a journal really helps, especially when things are going well. It's important to remember that God always brings you through to the other side.
I have three books to suggest:
Running Scared: Fear, Worry, and the God of Rest
http://www.amazon.com/Running-Scared-Fear-Worry-Rest/dp/0978556755
The Anxiety Cure
http://www.amazon.com/Anxiety-Cure-Archibald-Hart/dp/0849942969/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449213728&sr=1-1&keywords=anxiety+cure
The Problem of Pain
http://www.amazon.com/Problem-Pain-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652969/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449213760&sr=1-1&keywords=c.s.+lewis+problem+of+pain
All the best.
Don't be "desensitized." You have to develop a thick skin but keep a soft heart. I know that sounds like a paradox, and it's the hardest thing to do in this field. You will see unimaginable human suffering, but you are there to help when others can not. There is a book by C.S. Lewis called "The Problem of Pain." It's not really an EMS book...but it helped me a little. Here's a link for it on amazon http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/0060652969
David Bentley Hart is unparalleled in terms of knowledge, wit, imagination, eloquence, and is perhaps the greatest living Christian thinker today.
He just put out a translation of the New Testament through Yale University Press which is incredible.
His newest book is called The Experience of God and it is mind-boggling.
Atheist Delusions absolutely eviscerates pop atheism.
His theological magum opus, The Beauty of the Infinite has been called the greatest work of theology so far this century.
The Doors of the Sea is required reading for anyone who struggles with the issue of evil.
His work is sublime.
I read this recently and it made me really look forward to eternity. There will always be something new because God is infinitely creative.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0842379428/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474579308&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=heaven+randy+alcorn&dpPl=1&dpID=51%2BI-D0QHLL&ref=plSrch
Have you ever read The Doors of the Sea by David Bentley Hart? It's basically about this question, and while it's hard to summarize it meaningfully, I think it's worth a read, and it isn't very long.
Check out the book Heaven by Randy Alcorn.
http://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Randy-Alcorn/dp/0842379428/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1408045540&sr=1-1
So what are your goals? Do you insist on being like everybody else?? That aint going to happen sorry.
Do you get frustrated by the condition and project that onto other people? (Attitude)
Are you completely cynical about life and doubt everybody's honesty? (attitude)
Do you take so many medications that you're numb to everything? (Attitude)
There is a range of choices even you have towards life, whether or not you believe it.
In my own life I deal with neuropathy in my feet and hands. It is so variable and haphazard it is hard to know ahead of time whether I can walk due to this pain, whether I can open a jar or tune in my radio. It varies in intensity from barely there to incredibly hard to deal with from moment to moment.
I cant know your pain because I am not you, but everyone has their own burdens, in your case it insulates you from so much of life which is far more complex than physical pain. I can also guess it also closes your world down to some small place like a bedroom.
If you can read a Bible go back to the book of Job and reread what happens to him and his reaction to it. Compare the other characters reaction to Job's problems
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+1&version=KJV
Might also want to read CS Lewis book "The problem of Pain"
https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Pain-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652969
You mention "privilege" yes of course I am privileged I know and love God and I am confident that there will be a better place for me after death. Because God promised me this. Because of this I can do whatever I can do, and don't worry about the stuff I cant do.
In your case there are people who you interact with daily, are you good to them? Do you even know them and their lives, their wants, their dreams? Because of your condition you are in a unique position to share with them. yes there is some responsibility (probably not a huge one) you have towards them. No amount of pain on your part will eliminate that responsibility. If nothing else you can show them how they too can deal with their own pain when it comes and we all have pain. You CAN be a blessing to everyone around you by choosing that right attitude.
Very sorry to hear this, honestly can't imagine.
C.S. Lewis wrote an excellent book called, "The Problem of Pain", I believe he wrote it after losing his wife to cancer or something.
https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Pain-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652969
Also here's some verses that spring to mind:
"... for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith" Romans 3:23-25
God does not take revenge on those who have faith in his redemptive act.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. For as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too. If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer. Our hope for you is unshaken, for we know that as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in our comfort." 2 Corinthians 1:3-7
This life is filled suffering but God can both comfort us and uses any suffering for our good, that of others and his glory, as he has already suffered as fully human for us and promises us an eternal cure for suffering and sin; as challenging as it might seem right now.
Removed comment posted by /u/enlilsumerian at 04/02/14 16:20:36:
> Heaven or any afterlife is not exclusive to any religion or any god. A Muslim will have the same experience as a Christian or Atheist. Life is just that.
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547133/The-children-near-death-experiences-lead-charmed-lives-Study-reveals-youngsters-young-six-months-lucid-visions.html
... in response to submission With the new movie "Heaven is for Real" coming out, what good resources do you point people to for a better understanding of Heaven? posted by /u/Eagle9183 at 04/02/14 15:54:52:
> As a pastor, I have had several conversations just this week about this movie and other books like it where someone supposedly travels to heaven and comes back with the juicy details. My message it that our hope for heaven and information about it doesn't come from supposed experiences, but from God's Word.
>
> I've pointed people to Randy Alcorn's book "Heaven" - http://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Alcorn-Randy-ebook/dp/B000FCKCJC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396452599&sr=8-1&keywords=heaven+alcorn
>
> and ordered a stack of his booklet "Heaven: Biblical Answers to Common Questions" to hand out - http://www.epm.org/store/product/heaven-booklet-packet-20/
Last year I was fascinated with eschatology and found a rather extensive book on this subject. Heaven by Randy Alcorn. Some of the content of the book is speculation based on verses concerning this throughout the Bible, but as a whole it's an extensive overview of the afterlife. I grew up thinking the afterlife was heaven, a non-temporal realm as it's portrayed in the media.
I don't know how highly contested the new earth theory of the afterlife is among Christians, but from reading the verses associated with it I can't come to any other conclusion.
Anyways, good article. Wright is always a good read.
There's a book about heaven by Randy Alcorn which may address this.
sorry, i am a busy man. i am not forgetting to respond... this question is raised and answered in the book The Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis... the punchline is:
>"His omnipotence means power to do all that is intrinsically possible, not to do the intrinsically impossible."
i.e. creating a free creature without the possibility of evil is nonsense just as 'can god build a rock so heavy not even he can lift'.
>"Meaningless combinations of words do not suddenly acquire meaning simply because we prefix to them he two words 'God can'"
both quotes are taken from chapter 2: Divine Omnipotence; page 18. i suggest reading the entire book (especially the chess game metaphor on page 25 near the end of the same chapter), or at least chapter two which concerns your current rationale. or, you could not read it and go along presenting this evidence as proof God does not exist and be as dogmatic as many the religious folks you talk rotten about.
Have you read The Problem of Pain by C.S.Lewis? He tackles that issue pretty well regarding evil in the world. Not trying to push anything on you, I'm just saying - he's a smart guy and it's a good read. As for how could God reach out to you if you don't worship Him: haven't you ever loved someone who didn't love you back? I have; Megan Fox still won't return any of my phone calls or emails. And yes, there are some really oblivious Christians out there. Sorry about them; there's not much I can do. However, there are some others out there that understand the evil in the world far better that you and me. Did you know there are more Christian martyrs in the world now then there were when the Romans were feeding them to the lions?
The Doors of the Sea: Where Was God in the Tsunami? by David Bentley Hart.
Though it is a small book, it is fairly dense. I will come back to it when my theology is stronger, as I did not fully grasp all of the concepts in the book. But from what I did understand, it is a very well written book with very good "explanations".
https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Pain-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652969/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=the+problem+of+pain&qid=1562250040&s=gateway&sprefix=the+problem+of+&sr=8-1
A very good response to God allowing suffering to occur can be found in The Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis. I suggest reading the book in its entirety, but this is a pretty good summary of the book. It is a compelling read and gives an answer to this question.
C.S. Lewis deals with this in The Problem of Pain.
>I can NOT stop believing in God and yet I can't see how I can worship Him with the evil in this world.
This is an age-old question. It's called "the problem of evil." And the attempt to resolve this question has a name, too: theodicy. C. S. Lewis wrote a book on the subject, called "The Problem of Pain." I haven't read it yet, but it's in my "To read" list. The most common rebuttal to the question of how a loving God can allow all the evil in the world is the concept of free will. I cannot do a good job of explaining it thoroughly, but one of the clearest explanations was in an evangelical magazine I once read. I think there's an online copy, but I'll have to find it.
I don't consider myself Christian anymore, but I still turn to the Bible for comfort. How I personally get through trying times is by remembering Romans 8:28, "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Even when I might not see how at the moment, I choose to believe that I will be able to look back and make sense of any present suffering. That does not make it any less difficult, though.
Sure. The idea that we go to another space called "Heaven" as spirits for all eternity is a very modern one. It's not what is taught in the Bible, and it has never been an orthodox Christian belief.
Heaven is the space where God resides, like another dimension. God created the earth in such a way that it kind of "overlapped" with God's space. Because of human rebellion (i.e. "sin"), we've lost the ability to be in full communion with God in that space. While heaven is still there and can interact with us, we cannot interact with it (at least not in the way we were meant to).
God's goal is to fully restore the relationship between our world and heaven. Revelation describes heaven coming down to earth, not us going up to heaven. God intends to make creation like new, restoring the heaven/earth relationship and wiping away the effects of human sin.
There's still a belief that the human soul is in some way protected by God after death, and that we exist in some kind of unembodied state, but that's not the end goal. If that's "life after death", then the real hope of the Christian faith is "life after life after death".
That's a super simplified version. If you want to know more, check out this video from the Bible Project, or read "Surprised by Hope" by N.T. Wright.
The Problem of Pain
> I think I am scared of the idea of living forever, in which my mind is never at peace. I am a Christian and know that we will be glorifying God forever and adoring Him in the new heaven/new earth, but perhaps that just feels too vague or something.
I find that most people have a really weak understanding of Heaven. There really is a good amount from the Bible on what Heaven will be like. And on top of that, there is a considerable amount of speculation based on scripture, which can give us a pretty good picture of what we might expect in Heaven. Some of the problem is our limited imagination.
For one, you can know with 100% certainty that you will not be in a situation as a Christian where you live forever, but your mind is not at peace - one of the things granted to us in Heaven is peace and rest in Christ.
I second Heaven by Randy Alcorn.
He also has a fiction series that deals with some of those themes, too.
There is a great book byr Randy Alcorn on heaven
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000FCKCJC/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
http://www.amazon.com/The-Problem-Pain-C-Lewis/dp/0060652969
While not an easy question to respond in a good way to a child, the answer is very well explained in important Christian books such as:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Problem-Pain-C-Lewis/dp/0060652969
“Try to exclude the possibility of suffering which the order of nature and the existence of free-wills involve, and you find that you have excluded life itself”
― C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain
“His Omnipotence means power to do all that is intrinsically possible, not to do the intrinsically impossible. You may attribute miracles to Him, but not nonsense. There is no limit to His power.
If you choose to say, 'God can give a creature free will and at the same time withhold free will from it,' you have not succeeded in saying anything about God: meaningless combinations of words do not suddenly acquire meaning simply because we prifex to them the two other words, 'God can.'
It remains true that all things are possible with God: the intrinsic impossibilities are not things but nonentities. It is no more possible for God than for the weakest of His creatures to carry out both of two mutually exclusive alternatives; not because His power meets an obstacle, but because nonsense remains nonsense even when we talk it about God.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain
Surprised by Hope is the best book on this topic.
How do you explain this?
http://www.amazon.com/To-Heaven-Back-Doctors-Extraordinary/dp/0307731715/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344442419&sr=8-1&keywords=to+heaven+and+back
hahah now you've got to be trolling me. You haven't listened to a word I've written, and you keep repeating the same exact things I provide you with good arguments against. If this is an honest effort at debating, you are awful at it. You have to realize when a point I make defeats a point you made, so you either have to abandon it or defend it. But you cannot simply repeat it and have that be a legitimate argument. In case you're not trolling, here are some responses.
> No it doesn't [have a unified theology]. Nothing based on the bible can.
That is ridiculous. I could come up with a theology. If millions of people agreed with me, we would have a unified theology. To say that having a unified theology is impossible does not make any sense.
> Is it the word of god or not?
Christians believe the Bible was written by humans. Many believe it was "inspired" by God, but not so far as dictation. It's a more abstract "inspiring" like how love can "inspire" a love poem.
> You said that but clearly you lack the ability to perceive reality or you are mentally insane. You are not in union with god on earth. You are separated from god while you are on earth.
You seem utterly incapable of philosophical thought. Either that or you're just not reading what I'm writing. Let me lay it out for you:
People cannot interact with God via prayer when in hell because they are completely separated from God.
> So he is 100% responsible for all the good things (things you approve of) and bears no responsibility at all for any bad thing.
This is, to your credit, the one good theological question you bring up. It is a difficult question with many answers over the years (from Augustine to C.S. Lewis). One answer is that like darkness is simply the absence of light, evil is simply the absence of goodness. By that mechanism, God could provide the goodness without providing any evil. Another answer is that all evil in the world arises from free will, and that if no one chose evil there would be no evil, only good. This answer tends to rely on true evil being "second-order," such as hatred and malice, not "first-order," like physical pain. In any case, if you want to give this topic any more than a cursory consideration, I suggest you read the linked books above.
> You don't know and you don't care because you don't ask the question.
And now you go back to being obtuse. I do care, and I asked the question in my very comment. I even ventured a guess at an answer! (That our lives are happier and more meaningful as mortals.)
> You said there had to be consequences for choosing wrong or it made no sense to have free will. Now you are saying there are no consequences to choosing wrong because you can sin and still go to heaven. So much for your complete and unified catholic theology.
And, here you go back to seeing things in black-and-white when they are grey, just like with the separation from God issue. Let me break it down for you again:
> Not any more. The catholic church has changed their minds about purgatory.
Factually, verifiably false. You're probably thinking of limbo. See sections 1031, 1472, and 1475 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
> No they don't. God chooses to send them to hell because they do things god does not approve of.
Here is where you completely ignore what I said (that people choose hell, and the existence of a hell is a necessary consequence of free will) and simply repeat your claim. Not an effective tactic.
> How? They made the wrong choice, they exercised their free will in a way god does not approve of. There has to be a consequence for doing something god does not approve of and that consequence is hell.
See section on what happens to people with different levels of sins.
> That's the most evil thing I can think of. What a repugnant religion catholicism is.
You provide absolutely no argument for why what I described is "evil" or "repugnant." Name-calling, too, makes for an ineffective argument.
I didn't want this to escalate to where I had to be a dick about it, but you pretty much asked for it.
I would recommend, if you haven't read it, this book: The Goodness of God: Assurance of Purpose In the Midst of Suffering by Randy Alcorn
NT Wright: “am I a joke to you?”
https://www.amazon.com/Surprised-Hope-Rethinking-Resurrection-Mission/dp/0061551821
I just posted about one I just read!! Amazing book. Confessions of a Funeral Director
He could be a rock star and you could be his guitar
You could do the jetpack if he was Boba Fett
He could be a motorcycle and you the rider
Thanks for the contest!
I'd like this ebook from my "hubby" WL if I win please :-)
I strongly recommend The Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis: http://www.amazon.com/Problem-Pain-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652969/
I just finished it recently and it helped my understanding of these questions immensely. I'm not a theologian, but as far as I could tell it was pretty much in line with the teachings of the Church. I would be interested in hearing if I am wrong about that.
not sure if your cup of tea, but i am currently reading Never Give Up!: Relentless Determination to Overcome Life's Challenges by Joyce Meyer. It is faith-based and has a lot of tie-ins with scripture. Very encouraging and motivating for me!
I mean that all human beings will someday be physically raised from the dead for the Judgement and the "world to come" similar to how Christ was raised. Whatever is left of our body will be transformed into a "new" body that can be touched and can eat (for example), but is not subject to corruption and doesn't always necessarily act like we think of bodies acting now. References to the resurrection of the dead is scattered all over scripture (1 Samuel, Job, Psalms, Isaiah, Jesus' teaching in the Gospels, Acts, many of Paul's letters), but the big passages are Daniel 12 and Ezekiel 37 in the Old Testament and 1 Corinthians 15 in the New. It gets a line in both the Apostles' Creed ("I believe... in the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting") and the Nicene Creed ("I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come."), and two of the earliest post-Apostolic Christian writers we have access to (Irenaeus and Justin Martyr, both 2nd century) argue for a physical resurrection of all humans.
N.T. Wright has a good book, Surprised by Hope, that discusses this doctrine, its centrality to Christianity everywhere until relatively recently, and its implications on how we should live as Christians.
http://smile.amazon.com/Problem-Pain-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652969/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427661998&sr=8-1&keywords=the+problem+of+pain
“Try to exclude the possibility of suffering which the order of nature and the existence of free-wills involve, and you find that you have excluded life itself”
― C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain
Dude, why anything? Have you considered that God knows something you don't, and that your extremely limited grasp of the situation has not considered whole slew of factors that, on the eternal time scale, take major precedence?
You're asking about the nature of evil. It's a hard question. I think C.S. Lewis wrote some good stuff on it in The Problem of Pain. Seriously, I couldn't come close to explaining it as well as he does. Here's a Youtube reading, but it's 4 hours.
There is a book by a dude named Randy Alcorn simply called Heaven. I thought it was well written and quite interesting.
I would recommend looking into open theism.
http://opentheism.info/
Here's an article from the site:
The Problem of Evil in Process Theism and Classical Free Will Theism
http://opentheism.info/information/problem-evil-process-theism-classical-free-will-theism/
To add to it, I would recommend these books.
The God Who Risks: A Theology of Divine Providence by John Sanders
The Doors of the Sea: Where Was God in the Tsunami?
God of the Possible: A Biblical Introduction to the Open View of God
Others here have recommended other Christian approaches to the issue too. Seek the truth. God honors that.
A really great book to read that touches on this topic very well I think is Heaven by Randy Alcorn. It's well researched, though he is clear on areas of speculation, for instance the reason for marriage not being in heaven is that there would no longer need to be a legal covenant, relationships would simply continue to develop on a higher level... if I remember correctly, it's been years since I read it. It's an excellent read though, I highly recommend it.
Well, I don't see much value and debating you, seeing as you are an anti-theist, a group I've found far to euphoric to convince of anything; I will, however, point you to CS Lewis' 'The Problem of Pain'. An exceptional book by an exceptional man.
Source [amazon.com] Heaven by Randy Alcorn (and the Bible of course)
Heaven will be earth without sin period.
When I say heaven will be earth I mean it. Heaven will be the manifestation of "heaven on earth." This means be our actual physical present earth, the one your feet rest upon at this moment will be heaven (where God lives). It will be all of the good of the present earth without any of the bad. If you Imagine everything good in this world without corruption you may have a glimpse at what heaven will be like for the Christian
It's probably not your only reason, but you mentioned that you cannot worship a god that would allow so much atrocity and chaos. It would be worth your time to really explore your doubts even if only at first for your immediate goal of trying to understand her faith, and ultimately for your own sake. The Problem of Pain and The Reason for God are both books I have read and enjoyed that address those issues and more. Best wishes to you both.