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Top comments that mention products on r/DaystromInstitute:

u/flameofloki · 5 pointsr/DaystromInstitute



>"Nature" doesn't exist in any meaningful way, on Vulcan or elsewhere. If you draw a distinction between what is "natural" and what is "artificial," and place the "natural" in a position of primacy, then you have to decide what is "natural" and what is not. That decision is arbitrary, and is itself an entirely artificial construction. Are the tools used by apes "natural?" The languages of cetaceans? The music of birds? The structures built by insects? Is romantic love "natural," considering it was invented a thousand years after the steam engine?

The idea of what is or is not natural does exist. A stone sharpened and used by a primate is not equivalent to the feeling of sadness or happiness. If you were born with a leg, had it amputated and replaced with an artificial leg that artificial leg will usually be considered less desirable than the leg you were born with. If the urge to create a highly specific structure is part of what an insect is born with then it's natural. Birds are inclined by nature to sing and Vulcans are inclined by nature to feel.

>If there was ever such a thing as a Vulcan "state of nature," before the current era, the move away from nature to the current state is not necessarily good or bad. Emotions are not in themselves virtuous. Civilizations move neither toward a more perfect realization of their potential nor toward inevitable and total collapse. They simply change to reflect forces that act upon them, as all things do. Vulcan civilization changed in response to unrest in a way that provided stability at the expense of experience. If Vulcan public schools teach a kind of emotional control that stifles their experience of life, the Vulcan people are aware and choose to continue. The Vulcans are no different from humans in this respect.

Vulcans are presented with choice, but that choice resembles extortion. "Choose this path or be cast away from your family, banished, and stripped of a productive future even though you haven't harmed anyone" is hardly a rational choice to present to a child.

>Human civilization has, over the centuries, chosen to encourage thoughtful behavior over reactionary behavior. At one point there were no laws, and someone came to power and made his will the law. Over time, this was undone and more just laws were put in place. This move is born not from fear of tyranny, but from sympathy - sympathy for those who are harmed when people act without considering the consequences on the lives of others. Thoughtfulness protects the freedom of those who are weaker, which protects everyone's freedom.

The issue isn't whether Vulcans are sympathetic or not. They claim to suppress all emotion instead of understanding and dealing with it. In humans, this kind if behavior often results in mental problems and Vulcans are so compatible with and similar to humans that they produce neurologically viable offspring with each other. Why can Vulcans not simply stop claiming to have no emotions and still behave ethically?

>To understand why Vulcans think before they act, and even think before they feel, look at the results: Vulcans who are within their health and their sanity commit no crimes; they abandon no poor or weak; they do not abuse each other, or neglect each other, or condescend. When we see Vulcans do wrong, they are far from Vulcan, or they are unwell, or they are children.

Not true. "Healthy" Vulcans participate in and support a society that tells children that exercising free will while harming no other person will get them cast away, banished, looked down upon. Healthy Vulcans should be doing all sorts of different things because they're sentient individuals and not cardboard cutouts from an assembly line.

>What we see as "Vulcan stoicism" is a complicated and ancient social contract that reaches into every aspect of life. Vulcans understand that they have a responsibility to reach out to every other life they encounter, and know that the comprehension of the experience of the other is only possible through the intellect. Emotional response is inherently selfish and destructive

Except that an emotional response is not inherently destructive and selfish. If a person comforts another person this can be without selfishness and is not destructive.

>while also being beautiful and creative. As we see on a number of occasions, Vulcans do have emotions - what makes them unique is that in every moment of their lives, they attempt to behave mindfully, purposefully and with specific intent to fulfill their obligations to the other lives in the universe. The Vulcan civilization is the only one in the galaxy that has a successful, operational model for preserving the benefits of civilization without succumbing to the pitfalls of governance.

That's purest speculation. The pitfalls of governance can be just as great when the people running it avoid empathy and can take destructive actions based on faulty logic.

>The Vulcan virtue of IDIC, or infinite diversity in infinite combinations, is at the heart of that success. Emotions are subjective (only personal, and not diverse in this sense) and finite (in that they are only ever your own).

In the Trek universe your emotions can very well be the emotions of others. Also, empathy and the understanding that people experience similar types of emotions provides enrichment and inspiration. It's subjective but it still is.

>By harnessing them, Vulcans overcome the limitations of identity and create what is possibly a paradise.

Trek claims that Vulcans do not harness emotions. It claims that they suppress them and pretend that they're not there.

Sorry if this is messy. This can be terribly trying on such a small screen.

u/saintandre · 36 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

>Vulcans were under great duress when they chose the course their society is currently on but in doing so they completely discard vital elements of sentient life that nature has written into their being.

"Nature" doesn't exist in any meaningful way, on Vulcan or elsewhere. If you draw a distinction between what is "natural" and what is "artificial," and place the "natural" in a position of primacy, then you have to decide what is "natural" and what is not. That decision is arbitrary, and is itself an entirely artificial construction. Are the tools used by apes "natural?" The languages of cetaceans? The music of birds? The structures built by insects? Is romantic love "natural," considering it was invented a thousand years after the steam engine?

If there was ever such a thing as a Vulcan "state of nature," before the current era, the move away from nature to the current state is not necessarily good or bad. Emotions are not in themselves virtuous. Civilizations move neither toward a more perfect realization of their potential nor toward inevitable and total collapse. They simply change to reflect forces that act upon them, as all things do. Vulcan civilization changed in response to unrest in a way that provided stability at the expense of experience. If Vulcan public schools teach a kind of emotional control that stifles their experience of life, the Vulcan people are aware and choose to continue. The Vulcans are no different from humans in this respect.

Human civilization has, over the centuries, chosen to encourage thoughtful behavior over reactionary behavior. At one point there were no laws, and someone came to power and made his will the law. Over time, this was undone and more just laws were put in place. This move is born not from fear of tyranny, but from sympathy - sympathy for those who are harmed when people act without considering the consequences on the lives of others. Thoughtfulness protects the freedom of those who are weaker, which protects everyone's freedom.

To understand why Vulcans think before they act, and even think before they feel, look at the results: Vulcans who are within their health and their sanity commit no crimes; they abandon no poor or weak; they do not abuse each other, or neglect each other, or condescend. When we see Vulcans do wrong, they are far from Vulcan, or they are unwell, or they are children. What we see as "Vulcan stoicism" is a complicated and ancient social contract that reaches into every aspect of life. Vulcans understand that they have a responsibility to reach out to every other life they encounter, and know that the comprehension of the experience of the other is only possible through the intellect. Emotional response is inherently selfish and destructive, while also being beautiful and creative. As we see on a number of occasions, Vulcans do have emotions - what makes them unique is that in every moment of their lives, they attempt to behave mindfully, purposefully and with specific intent to fulfill their obligations to the other lives in the universe. The Vulcan civilization is the only one in the galaxy that has a successful, operational model for preserving the benefits of civilization without succumbing to the pitfalls of governance. The Vulcan virtue of IDIC, or infinite diversity in infinite combinations, is at the heart of that success. Emotions are subjective (only personal, and not diverse in this sense) and finite (in that they are only ever your own). By harnessing them, Vulcans overcome the limitations of identity and create what is possibly a paradise.

u/begege · 20 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Honestly? Here - this will tell you like every single inconsistency in the entire series - there's tons of them: http://www.amazon.com/Nitpickers-Guide-Next-Generation-Trekkers/dp/0440505712

The moon is very populated in Star Trek - but special effects cost money - like making the moon look like it's covered in colonies. TNG is back before good CGI so it's not like they could just have their 3d populated moon model and throw it into any scene they wanted quickly with computers. The special effects utilized in TNG are expensive techniques - minor details like making sure the moon colonies are visible often just get ignored.

u/ckemtp · 3 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Hopefully the mods won't mind that I posted this too much because you're sick and probably need something to do.

This is the technical manual they're referring to

I highly recommend you purchasing it in a hard copy. It's a great book to read whilst recuperating. Hope you feel better soon.

  • For purposes of in-depth discussion I shall ask which of the on-screen Doctors you believe would best treat your infection.

u/Jigsus · 1 pointr/DaystromInstitute

Fun fact: the scripts for the Gary 7 series were written. When the show didn't get the green light they were turned into comic books. They're pretty interesting: http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Assignment-Earth-IDW/dp/1600102913

I got them as part of the star trek comic book humble bundle and I was pleasantly surprised.

u/adramaleck · 11 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Ummmm well it isn't everyday I can be Santa but here you go. Best Star Trek book ever written. Probably one of my favorite sci fi books period.

​

https://www.amazon.com/Q-Squared-Star-Trek-Next-Generation/dp/0671891510

u/AttackTribble · 7 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

If you liked that episode, check out the book Dragon's Egg by Robert L. Foreward. It's a great read, with a similar concept underneath it.

u/rtwoctwo · 3 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Several others have mentioned it already, but Peter David's Q-Squared is the Trek book I've read the most - probably 5 or 6 times. At the same time, it's not a book I would recommend to new Trek fans - there are plenty of little details / background information that might be missed. It also has the benefit of being a stand-alone book, which means you don't have to read half a dozen books to find out what's going on.

If you are in the mood for a massive read, the Millennium trilogy by Judith & Garfield Reeves-Stevens is pretty hefty. Like Q-Squared it's a standalone, but it's a much (much) bigger story. The omnibus edition is nearly 1,000 pages long. However, since you haven't seen all of DS9 it might be a bit... confusing (at the least).

https://www.amazon.com/Millennium-Terok-Prophets-Inferno-Space/dp/0743442490

Lastly, I'll note that Destiny by David Mack is another large-scale story. It does build off of earlier events, but is also a good jumping on point for later series.

https://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Complete-Night-Mortals-Souls-ebook/dp/B00AHE24ZS

u/eternallylearning · 1 pointr/DaystromInstitute

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Defiant essentially an extensively armored Nova Class ship with the nacelles brought inside the armor? At least behind the scenes that is. I seem to recall reading it in this book, but it's not near me now so I cannot check. The thing that really makes it clear is the deflector sections on the ships. Take the Defiant's away and looks remarkably like the nova. The front curve of the Defiant's hull is almost identical to the Nova's saucer as well.

u/MelofAonia · 3 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Non-canon, but I really like Q Squared (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Q-squared-Star-Trek-Next-Generation/dp/0671891510) - incorporates a couple of alternate realities and a really good story.

u/vincentzierigen · 3 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Read this:

Star Trek (2011-2016) Vol. 9: The Q Gambit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VGOH4J4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_rAnRCb0Q938A4

Is not cannon, but it will answer your question partially and it’s a great comic!

u/06Wahoo · 3 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

If you haven't gone and searched for them yet, here is an link for the Kindle versions. A fantastic read, well worth $15, even for a digital copy.

https://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Complete-Night-Mortals-Souls-ebook/dp/B00AHE24ZS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1499306800&sr=8-2&keywords=star+trek+destiny

u/TheDudeNeverBowls · 5 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Are you completely sure about that? But let's put that aside for a moment. I said we should use a different term.
Feudalism.

This is what employment on Ferenginar is most possibly like. Rom is our only true example, so there's really no help there.

But that kind of unbridled capitalism can only lead to something like feudalism.

Now, to go back to your point about not being able to unionize being hardly slavery. Look at it this way, there has never been unionization on Ferenginar. There have never been worker's rights. This means things like worker safety is not a concern over profits. Neither is child labor. I won't even get into gender issues.

Workers without rights are almost slaves.

u/Bobby_Bonsaimind · 1 pointr/DaystromInstitute

> In TNG onward there is little or no mention of these positions on the ship.

Is supported by the Star Trek TNG Technical Manual, I can't find something about a dedicated tactical/weapons room. The deckplan does also not list a room for it.

Well look at that, who knew that the saucer section does have an aft torpedo launcher?!

u/AngrySpock · 4 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

As with all nitpicking threads, I feel the need to shout out to Phil Farrand's Nitpickers Guides from the 90s. Here's the one for TNG. He also did TOS, TNG Vol. 2, and DS9 through Season 4. He did one for some of the X-Files too.

OP, if you like finding the little inconsistencies in Star Trek, I highly recommend seeing if you can find these guides.

u/vonHindenburg · 0 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Well, that was super-confusing for a second. I'm reading Castles of Steel, which is a history of the British Navy in WWI, in which Admiral Jellico; Commander of the Grand Fleet, is prominently featured.



Highly recommend it to any naval history buffs, or just anyone who wants to better understand how badly the fog of war can screw over well-laid plans.

u/mario_painter · 3 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Good points. It gets more complicated when you introduce a third axis to territorial maps for sure, but generally speaking the galaxy is more flat.

In fact, maybe you could argue canonically the galaxy (at least in the Trek universe) is not 6000 light years thick, given the amount of onscreen evidence showing only 1 sector of thickness (another example)

I haven't seen the Star Trek Stellar Cartography book, but I wonder if it's sorted out any of these issues and/or has a similar layout to the 'standard' Trek map people are used to.

Star Trek Online also shares the flat layout, and the game has some level of "canon"?

u/TheMastorbatorium · 0 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

There may be 'better' ways depending on your goals, and would The Prime Directive not apply in most cases?

Non-sentient/non-warp capable life would automatically become exempt, unless that life was on a Federation member world. You can't mess with the natural order of things for the sake of it, they appear to be very darwinian about it all, if it wasn't fit to exist in it's environment for whatever reason, then they leave it to die.

"The Prime Directive is not just a set of rules. It is a philosophy, and a very correct one. History has proven again and again that whenever mankind interferes with a less developed civilization, no matter how well intentioned that interference may be, the results are invariably disastrous."
—Jean-Luc Picard, Symbiosis

..So you're limited to Federation member worlds, who have sentient warp capable species living on them, who'd be directly affected by the exinction of that species, and they'd probably have to show a legitimate need for it.

Cloning is so 2370. If you're using Augmentation techniques, why not go full Soong and design 'better' animals?

We know that before Kirks time way back in 'Season 5' of Enterprise,
in the book "The good that men do" Charles Tucker, working for Section 31 goes to Adigeon Prime to get his genes resequened to enable him to pass as another species.
(The same planet a 7 year old Bashir is taken for similar reasons).

So gene manipulation is definitely a thing before, during and after Kirks time. B'Elanna even tries to design her own baby in Voyager

The Federation have access to 'Genesis Wave' technology, technology that can create life from nothingness, but can't really be used as the Genesis technology itself was/is still flawed, due to the use of protomatter as a substitute for the ['Taurus meta-genome'](#s "Discovered in the Taurus reach by a team involving a young Carol Marcus") in the Vanguard book series, and further explored in the 'Genesis Wave' TNG books.

Why not use the Transporter? It'd be faster, we know from the tng episode 'Second Chances' that the transporter can create identical copies of complicated life. If you've got a copy of for example Riker.jpg in the database, why not fiddle with the genes at your leisure, print out a few test runs, do a Tuvix.

There is an ongoing theme in the books, Post TNG/DS9/VOY era regarding the Andorians. Basically, due to needing 4 people to procreate, the Andorians have been slowly going extinct, and there is an ethical debate over whether the Augment research should be de-classified so that they can [try something else to save themselves.](#s "They tried a lot of things, but a lot of the promising ideasor thoughts are rejected, either by xenophobia, or the scientific community after disastrous results. They even start photocopying citizens ala Thomas Riker, via the transporter") In the Star Trek Titan series of books

If the conservation of the whales brought 'back' from the 80's, was even a remote priority, then they would almost certainly have been cloned and 'augmented' to repopulate the species. One breeding pair, doesn't have the genetic diversity to support healthy generations of offspring, (despite what the bible says) brothers & sisters mating allows errors in DNA (which would ordinarily be filtered out with partners with different enough genes) to propogate, leading to retardation, affirmity, disability and the eventual death of that species. (Again).


*edit for spoilers and formatting. /sigh I'm an idiot who can't get that last spolier/link to work, you're just gonna have to hover over it, i'm done trying to edit it.

u/WhatVengeanceMeans · 6 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

>To your last point, indentured servitude is not slavery. The idea is that you have a debt which you pay off through work directly for a person. Slavery is the absence of wages and freedom but being required to work. An indentured servant is paid a wage and generally has freedom outside of their job.

In real history, that distinction is not as sharp as you seem to think. "Indentured Servitude" has very often been slavery in everything but name. This has been true globally, though the book I linked focuses on the US.

u/JProthero · 1 pointr/DaystromInstitute

I included two brief quotes from the TNG Technical Manual in my post on a similar topic to this here, which I think suggest the show's technical advisors had exactly what you describe in mind when they were thinking about how to depict the behaviour and abilities of replicators.

u/BladedDingo · 1 pointr/DaystromInstitute

One of the Star Trek Online game artists recently commented on Star Trek Discovery's map which had similar sectors and names as the STO map.

he confirmed they used the same sources to design their maps.

https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/8mx7p4/discovery_star_maps_pulling_from_sto/dzr4d7h/
> Nope, we just both pulled from the same sources.
>
> Namely:
>
> https://smile.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Charts-Complete-Atlas/dp/0743437705?sa-no-redirect=1
>
> And
>
> https://smile.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Cartography-Starfleet-Reference/dp/0760363811/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1527580161&sr=1-1&keywords=Stellar+Cartography&dpID=51dos%252BtBNOL&preST=_SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch
>
> (Which is also based on Star Charts)

so really, the discovery and star trek online maps are the closest to canon as we have I think.

u/LocalAmazonBot · 1 pointr/DaystromInstitute

Here are some links for the product in the above comment for different countries:

Link: Self-Constitution


|Country|Link|
|:-----------|:------------|
|UK|amazon.co.uk|
|Spain|amazon.es|
|France|amazon.fr|
|Germany|amazon.de|
|Japan|amazon.co.jp|
|Canada|amazon.ca|
|Italy|amazon.it|
|China|amazon.cn|



This bot is currently in testing so let me know what you think by voting (or commenting).

u/Billiam_Shartner · 4 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Is this what you're referring to? I didn't realize this existed until this moment.

u/sillyquiet · 1 pointr/DaystromInstitute

This sort of thing has a long, long history in Star Trek fandom.
I wouldn't get too upset about it; like the cliche about there being no light without darkness, it's easier to recognize and laud good Trek when we identify what makes for bad Trek.

u/mastertheshadow · 3 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

> In the same episode, it takes them two weeks to the Klingon homeworld, which would mean that the Klingon homeworld was the closest Star System to Earth, which is obvious nonsense.

Beta canon at best (so YMMV) Star Trek Star Charts attempted to rationalize this:

In Broken Bow, Tucker is complaining to Archer about the presence of T'Pol and we get this exchange:
>Tucker: Since when do we have Vulcan Science Officers?

>Archer: Since we needed their star charts to get to Kronos.

In Star Charts, the Beta Quadrant section opener (page 50-51) talks about the Klingon Empire (and the Romulans) as being the primary power(s) of the Beta Quadrant and the picture is of a Vulcan Star Chart. The caption of that image reads as follows:

>With the help of Vulcan star charts, meticulously prepared over centuries of space exploration, early Earth vessels were able to take advantage of subspace shortcuts through the Beta Quadrant, including this one that allowed the Enterprise NX-01 to make its historic journey from Earth to Qo'noS in only four days

Not great, but its something. Of course, that potentially adds other issues, such as why if the NX-01 had charts of "subspace shortcuts" why hadn't we heard of these shortcuts in other trek. . .and just what the heck a "subspace shortcut" is. Does the concept of a "subspace shortcut" even make any kind of sense given the understanding/explanation of subspace given in Trek? Then there's the whole side trip to Rigel X for the whole Suliban and Temporal Cold War plot that began in that episode - did they have shortcuts that got them to Rigel X also without delaying their trip to Qo'noS? So, yeah, perhaps that attempt to explain it away only adds more issues?

u/NoOscarForLeoD · 1 pointr/DaystromInstitute

This one?. I lost my hard copy in a move, years ago.

u/another-gabe · 3 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

> a consequence of how close Earth forces got to Romulus

Nah, I think it's a consequence of Romulus being the capital, the seat of power for the empire. Where are you sourcing that the Starfleet got even close to Romulus? Of course, Starfleet wouldn't have carpet bombed Romulus, but they would have occupied it and de-armed it in order to win their hearts and minds (reference Earth's WWII, Dominion War).

> London is, however, on...

You missed my point about the capitals. My point was that the position of the homeworld isn't pertinent to their culture of aggression against the Federation, as much as their quest for lebensraum and ideology drives their strategy.

> Iran Contra...

Huh? Those conflicts are related, but not in the way I think you think they are.

> But during the expansion period...

The Cardassians did. They tried. Ask Miles O'Brien, Edward Jellico, and Ben Maxwell.

Also, I think you're ignoring this piece of canon: Starfleet Stellar Cartography. The set includes a chart on the Romulan War.

u/2ndHandTardis · 7 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

Should be noted that while there are some canonical issues with what has been said the Star Charts have been used as a reference for Discovery.

So who knows but I've often wondered about this as well. I recently posted about how Unification 1&2 makes no sense when you consider the star charts. Even without them it's problematic because Vulcan is a core planet 16 light years from Earth.

The problem is writers weren't driven by stellar cartography, rather just trying to write provocative stories. DS9 being at the crossroads of all those powers worked better from a story standpoint, especially when the Dominion War started heating up.

Edit - By the way, the updated star charts are being released next month, so well see if they address some issues.

https://trekcore.com/blog/2018/08/updated-star-trek-stellar-cartography-maps-coming-to-print-in-october/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0760363811

u/Ut_Prosim · 4 pointsr/DaystromInstitute

It was this: https://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Classic-Episodes-Hardcover/dp/0385365241

I don't mean to make it sound like hard scifi literature, but it was far less campy and far more serious than the series. There were also some minor but significant changes made between these scripts and the show.

You could tell that some of the episodes were slightly dumbed down for TV. In Operation: Annihilate! for example, it wasn't intense light that killed the beasties, but rather the magnetic flux of the star. They also realized that there was no way a starship had the power to overwhelm the natural magnetic field of a planet, so they found an alternative you'd never expect of the Starfleet we know. They were also on the verge of sterilizing Deneva via orbital bombardment to contain the epidemic before finding this solution.