> How did y’all learn how to start saying no ?

Read No More Mr. Nice Guy. For the cheap, full text at https://archive.org/stream/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy_djvu.txt

You are people pleasing, and need to be assertive.
This generally has to do with craving approval.

You need self approval. Perhaps by developing moral standards of behavior and judging yourself by those, instead of how happy people around you are, or how "well liked" you are.

As I have aged I have gotten much more disagreeable, in the sense of the big 5 personality model.
My attitude is very MGTOW - if you don't like me or how I behave, don't let the door hit you in the ass.
I know that I am a good person, because I know what my morality is and I know that I stick to it instead of caving due to weakness or craving or convenience. Since I know that I am good, idgaf if you think that or not.

---

Wisdom helps too.

I have learned from the Buddhists that graciously accepting gifts allows other people to exercise their generosity.
I have extended this. Accepting praise allows others to exercise their pro-social inclinations, and thus makes the world a better place. (Ditch public professions of modesty - just say thanks, but don't let it swell your head!)

In the same way, helping people can cripple the development of their self reliance.

Without consequences, growth will not occur. This is why fathers are much more important than mothers; rather than smother and protect they push the little ones out of the nest, just as much as the little ones can handle.

Why did she trust someone undependable? Why was she partying on her last nickle? (Being a cock tease to sponge free drinks?) Why is she even broke at all - no job, no budget, no limits on spending?

Here's what I learned in sales management, about the design of incentive programs: people do what you pay them for. Tie bonus to design wins, get a lot of low-volume junk designs. Tie incentives to volume, find salesmen tanking the price to get volume. It's actually quite a challenge to get right.

So you are incentivizing this chick to be irresponsible, by supporting that behavior.
Whatever you pay for, you will get more of!

No More Mr Nice Guy was the book I was referring to - hopefully other commenters can offer more examples.

I've been reading A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy & Enchiridion by Epicurus for some easy-to-digest MGTOW philosophy which has crossed nicely into the mainstream. For fiction I'd hugely recommend Whatever by Michel Houellebecq & Lights Out in Wonderland by DBC Pierre (one of my all-time favourites.)

To be fair, Bukowski can be read to help with the "Don't Give A Fuck" attitude that can help build your confidence. He tends to see women without the rose-tinted glasses, to put it delicately. He's written lots of poetry but his novels are the best. Bluebird is one of my favourite poems by him. Post Office is one of his great novels.

That's all I can think of for now.

As I noted in a comment in another thread...

---

>What lies at the intersection of /r/financialindependence and /r/mgtow?

A nifty little book called "Bachelor Pad Economics" that I recently ran across -- and there's also a (cheaper) ebook version -- seems to sum it all up (i.e. MGTOW + Financial Independence, etc.). He pretty much outlines (after the fact) what I followed for a plan in the 90's and 00's.

BTW I'm like Mr. Magwitch, basically frugal and (more or less) "retired" in my early 40's; debt free with house paid off, investments that (in part because I was no longer doing a commute/day-job) I was able to pull from the stock market at the 2007/2008 "peak" and then bought back in at basically the bottom -- and which generate more than enough to pay my minimal living costs (no wife, no EX-wife, no kids, & free from wife & kid-led consumer/status trap = cheap living).

Moreover, that was achieved after only about a dozen years of working & saving (and 8 years paying off the house, buying the vehicles, building the workshop addition, etc) -- that dozen years prior (early 30's) I was deep in debt due to a failed business (went out a bit too far on that limb, had to climb my way back out), and without a proverbial pot to piss in (not even a functional vehicle for about a year).

Note that I said "more or less retired" because I do still engage in some occasional consulting contracts, as well as "working" on hobbies and various volunteer things -- but basically I'm doing those things because I want to (I really only take consult contracts that I think are "interesting" or unique in some way and where I expect to have fun as well as make some extra cash) -- I am NOT doing any of those things to eat or have a roof over my head...

And I am definitely not feeding any brats (much less some F's crotch spawn).

---

BTW Forgive the repost of above the comment, but why rewrite the same thing again? Figured I'd post this as a separate thread to get the book some more exposure. (And no... I am not the author and don't make a penny from this recommendation, not even Amazon link-based stuff.)

1. The Manipulated Man (1971) - Esther Vilar
   
2. Anatomy of Female Power A Masculinist Dissection of Matriarchy (1990) - Chinweizu
   
3. No More Mr. Nice Guy (2000) - Robert Glover
   
4. The Rational Male (2013) - Rollo Tomassi
   
   All these books are very controversial even (or especially) in this subreddit. Opinions go from "this book is trash" to "this book saved from suicide". I am not exaggerating. I will not comment on their virtues and shortcomings so you can make up your own mind. Perhaps you can begin by reading the first chapter and see which one resonates more with you.
   
   I wish you the best. Welcome to MGTOW.

Dude... thanks!

I just got it-- it's free with a amazon e-reader 3-month free trial

https://www.amazon.com/Key-Logger-Forbidden-Glimpse-Nature-ebook/dp/B00FZXE2HY

/u/nexus974

I purchased the book and it was delivered yesterday. I began reading this book last night for about 4 hours. Thank You!! What a great recommendation.

The 2nd chapter about negative visualization was quite validating. I've done this and beaten myself up for it for years. It turns out that the reason I did it (what I thought was a mental weakness) was justified in this book. Thinking of worst case scenarios takes the sting away if that or another negative thing happens. I've thought this and my daughter instinctively does it (with a little influence from me, I'm sure) and with great benefit.

Also just in the second chapter how it can allow you to appreciate life more than the person that NEVER thinks anything negative will ever happen... and then they are devastated.

Great read so far. For those that get the book... the intro and 1st chapter are painful - Philosophical History, but the rest of the book is written just as one would expect.

Thanks again! Chapter 3 and 4 coming up tonight.

https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-Stoic/dp/0195374614

Give him the book "The Rational Male" and "Men on Strike" lol

 



Just tell him you don't want to be a third wheel and that you respect his girlfriend, but feel weird about being part of a trike..

There is nothing wrong with saying that you want to have some "Bro time", because you are kinda burned out from dealing with all the women stresses at work all the time. Makes you sound like an awesome dude, while kinda getting the point across. Plus he's your brother, he should understand, right?

Two books for you OP.

https://www.amazon.com/When-Say-No-Feel-Guilty/dp/0553263900

and

https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339

GOOD LUCK!

I've heard and read similar stats before. In trying retrace my web search, I came across this:

RE: 20 to 25% Percent of Children in a Marriage - Not Husband's

"I'm not surprised. Read the book "Sperm Wars" and you'll learn that only about 40% of Men across human history have been successful at continuing their lineage with offspring. Women are much higher at about 80-85% success rate."

http://amzn.com/1560258489

Do a little web search and I'm sure you can find some interesting numbers and reported facts that will make the hair on the back of hour neck stand up.

Hey guys, PLEASE DON'T report this book. We should want this book to become popular with five star ratings.

This is the example of capitalism and freedom of speech (one - they hate and the other they want to curtail) in action as a result of their hyper emotional listen and believe (which they want) activism.

EDIT:

The book can be purchased on amazon. And the page is archived here.

I don't know, I'm pretty average, but I could do something like what he's done with his dating only younger ladies. But it could potentially have something to do with where I live.

Having said that, I wouldn't do it because I don't trust myself not to catch the feels. ...Plus, I've read The Key Logger: A Forbidden Glimpse into the True Nature of Women. To anybody thinking they'd like to date a young lass, read that book and then tell us if you still feel like it.

You should buy "Worthless: The indispensible guide to choosing the right major" by Aaron Clarey on Amazon. It is 4.93$ on Kindle (paperback costs 12$) and is going to save you lots of money in student loans by showing you what the best degrees are and which ones you must avoid at all costs. It is thanks to Aaron Clarey that I have gone back to college to major in electrical engineering. I found him through Terrence Popp's youtube channel, he is one of his sponsors. He gives amazing career advice, he is not a MGTOW but he is still very much red pilled though I would put him more in the purple piller category because he believes in NAWALTs but that does not matter for what you are seeking. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B006N0THIM/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=&sr=

These should help:

The Key Logger

Tinder perfect 10 guy

It's not a conspiracy guys.

The old blog posts and research projects were mostly from one of the cofounders - Christian Rudder. Who has a BS in Mathematics from Harvard.

OkCupid was sold in 2011. (Though I think Christian Rudder did occasionally still post there.)

He went on to compile and expand on the themes from his OkCupid blog posts, in his book "Dataclysm."

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0385347391

Check it out. It's a fun read.

if want more depth, I recommend the book where the info came from:

https://www.amazon.com/Dataclysm-Identity-What-Online-Offline-Selves/dp/0385347391

I found the book in the most useful Internet website after pornhub: libgen.io

Someone posted this book here months ago. The books is written by the (co-)founder of Okcupid himself. He shows with numbers and statistics what we've talked about here for years.

Why in the world do men put up with this? Even when I was married, I never asked my wife's permission or had to accrue "brownie points" to get anything I wanted when I wanted. Now, granted, I'm rather a minimalist when it comes to stuff, so it was never a point of friction but I never even vaguely thought I had to get her approval for any purchases I did make.

That being said, it seems rather absurd to me for a grown man to spend $800 on a plastic child's toy, but to each their own.

https://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Ultimate-Millennium-Falcon-Building/dp/B075SDMMMV/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=LEGO+Star+Wars+Ultimate+Collector%27s+Millennium+Falcon+75192&qid=1565363532&s=toys-and-games&sr=1-3

Feminism does not care about women but about their privileges. And the most important of all is to maintain control of sexuality. That is why they oppose sexual dolls and any alternative to a relationship where the woman marks the sexual pattern.

The feminist lie (book):
https://www.amazon.com/Feminist-Lie-Never-About-Equality-ebook/dp/B071SG95CN

Postscript:
When a feminist tells you that you are reifying the female body for having a sex doll, tell her to throw her dildo in the trash.

> Esther Vilar in "The Manipulated Man"

That book is almost 180 bucks on Amazon. I have it on my list, but I just can't see spending that kind of money for a book at the moment.

That's how important and controlled that book is in today's world. When I saw that price and how restricted/hard to get it was, that immediately setoff some massive Red Alerts.

It's easier for me to get Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf than it is a copy of that book.

Let that sink in.

https://www.amazon.com/Manipulated-Man-Esther-Vilar/dp/1905177178/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482345217&sr=8-1&keywords=Esther+Vilar+in+%22The+Manipulated+Man%22

AWALT. They all have their avenues of validation. Check out this book it's an eye opener. Best way to prevent that from happening is to not have a girlfriend or wife in the first place.

You will love this book, read the reviews.

Yeah, sure. It's "Schopenhauer : A Biography" by David E. Cartwright. It's a Cambridge University Press publication.
Here's an Amazon link :


https://www.amazon.com/Schopenhauer-Biography-David-Cartwright/dp/1107626951

Thanks for the recommendation!

Link to Amazon for others:

https://www.amazon.com/Manipulated-Man-Esther-Vilar/dp/1905177178/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=%22the+manipulated+man%22+from+esther+vilar&qid=1557272009&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull

I recommend you read the book : https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Americas/dp/1589795474

You can even buy it used: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1589795474/ref=tmm_pap_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=

Almost 3,000 reviews on Amazon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door

Huh? Part of adopting the mgtow philosophy is not giving a fuck what people or society thinks about you or what you do. That’s the whole point not conforming to society’s expectations of what it mean to be a man(a slave in the matrix). Did you even read it instead of jumping to conclusions? This article is just a snipped of his book.


The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck: A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life: https://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Art-Not-Giving-Counterintuitive/dp/0062457713/ref=nodl_

You should read No More Mr Nice Guy.

This book is good https://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Art-Not-Giving-Counterintuitive/dp/0062457713

The red pill is essentially applied evolutionary psychology. The most prominent red pill book is Rollo Tomassi's The Rational Male. These theories explain a lot of social problems we have, as described in The Misandry Bubble. MGTOW use this information (part 3) to increase the quality of the individual man's life (part 5).

Start here. It's a good start.

EDIT: here's one review:
Every young man needs to read this book. All the advice one needs to know when moving out of the parent’s house: college, dating, budgeting, spending, financial planning, and being a success in Obama’s Socialist America.

The reader will experience shock and dismay at what has become of our economy and the ‘modern woman.’ This isn’t your Dad’s, or Grandfather’s America, sonny. Those days of finding a quality woman, raising a family, having a successful career with just one or two employers is just about impossible. Pursuing those endeavors will most often result in failure and financial ruin.

This is 512 pages of advice. Most are lessons the author has learned the hard way. Young men: read this so you can navigate the terrain of the new, transformed, America. Read it to learn from someone else’s mistakes!

Dude, hate to break it, but high school never ends.


Wait 'till you get in the workplace.


But MGTOW gives you power.


Also read 48 Laws of Power. Lots of good advice.

I suggest Men on Strike by Hellen Smith, I see her book as the most redpilled I've ever seen written by a woman and plus no shaming BS. She doesn't mention MGTOW, but she was able to spot everything we agree in general about marriage and law.

​

Then you can read The Manipulated man and the rational male. I think it's a great order to read.

​

Men on Strike: https://www.amazon.com/Men-Strike-Boycotting-Marriage-Fatherhood-ebook/dp/B00OFK22Y8/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1537752537&sr=1-1&keywords=men+on+strike&dpID=51yxYrh%252B4xL&preST=_SY445_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

​

The manipulated man: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1905177178/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i0

​

The rational male: https://www.amazon.com/Rollo-Tomassi/e/B00J2165RA/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1537752638&sr=1-2-ent

My friend, you are correct but late:

Men ARE starting to stop agreeing to get married:

https://www.amazon.com/Men-Strike-Boycotting-Marriage-Fatherhood/dp/1594037620/

And it Western society is already rotting from within.

> Because Daddy went to art school.

Well, serves him right.
http://www.amazon.com/Worthless-Aaron-Clarey-ebook/dp/B006N0THIM

Bachelor Pad Economics: The Financial Advice Bible for Men
=

Pretty much everything you need all in one (big, fat, long*) book.

---
* But don't fret about the size, you don't HAVE to read the entire thing all at once, or even all in your youth -- much of the advice it contains is for middle-age & later years (like "estate planning" i.e. how to structure what & how what's left goes to kids, or friends, or whoever after your dead, etc) -- and the author guides you as to what parts you SHOULD read (or focus on) depending on your age & situation (education/career status, marital state, present financial condition, goals, etc).

Try this; https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/745489624?utm_medium=api&utm_source=custom_widget

Then this; https://www.amazon.com/Manipulated-Man-Esther-Vilar/dp/1905177178

Message me if you want more!

48 not 38. lol i need to read it. he's wrote other books that people rave about as well.

>saying that I should man up and start acting like a man

I've always had the problem with someone saying "man up". It wasn't until I read Men on Strike by Helen Smith - Amazon that I finally learned that it means "do as I say and don't give me trouble". It's simply a shaming tactic, which all women, and many men, use on men.
 
The best response to anyone that says it is to tell them they have an opinion of what a man is but it's their opinion. You don't share their opinion so they should go away and leave you be.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062457713/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_13?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

https://www.amazon.com/48-Laws-Power-Robert-Greene/dp/0140280197/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526891199&sr=8-1&keywords=48+laws+of+power

There is a book about it: https://www.amazon.com.br/Dataclysm-Identity-What-Online-Offline-Selves/dp/0385347391

Example on female dating help.

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A simple, quick google search of the phrase finds you the result: https://www.amazon.com/Schopenhauer-Biography-David-Cartwright/dp/1107626951

For anybody who doesn't know who this is, but kind of remembers the voice, it's DDJ from Turd flinging monkey's channel. He's been doing mgtow content for a long time, just not on his own channel until recently. He wrote a book and you can pick it up here

https://www.amazon.com/Feminist-Lie-Never-About-Equality-ebook/dp/B071SG95CN

btw the author name is obviously a pen-name for anyone wondering.

The feminist lie
https://www.amazon.com/Feminist-Lie-Never-About-Equality-ebook/dp/B071SG95CN

They need to make this one into a film. https://www.amazon.com/Feminist-Lie-Never-About-Equality-ebook/dp/B071SG95CN/ref=pd_sim_351_3/141-3706200-7927236?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B071SG95CN&pd_rd_r=b94353c4-385a-11e9-8361-31a05a5f3960&pd_rd_w=XHIPa&pd_rd_wg=QMK8K&pf_rd_p=90485860-83e9-4fd9-b838-b28a9b7fda30&pf_rd_r=3KZJPEC5AJ8E0YBC0QJF&psc=1&refRID=3KZJPEC5AJ8E0YBC0QJF

Naw homie! This thing $800 for some Legos.

Or you can buy this one for $800

Never mind, you're right.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Destroy-Man-Now-DAMN-ebook/dp/B07BB2M54Y/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1520600335&sr=1-2&keywords=how+to+destroy+a+woman+now

Also, Books.

The Subtle Art of Not Giving a $#%& https://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Art-Not-Giving-Counterintuitive/dp/0062457713#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div

The Power Of Now

uhm...... what?! dunno if trolling or serious.
I ment this https://www.amazon.com/Rational-Male-Rollo-Tomassi/dp/1492777862

A man doesn't have to be exclusively straight in order to qualify for white-knighting. Biologically, every man has the instinct to spread his seed to as many women as possible regardless of sexuality.

Even nice guys fool themselves into thinking that they aren't influenced by pussy just because they're gay.

She's referring to Sperm Wars (Baker) which only seeks to describe what happens if there were multiple partners involved in sexual selection.

It's hardly evidence that one ought to engage in sperm competition unless confirmation bias counts as proof of an ought.

Lies. Only a mgtow could afford the Millennium Falcon

https://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Ultimate-Millennium-Falcon-Building/dp/B075SDMMMV

For future aspirants to a BA in whatever, may I recommend:

Cleary, "Worthless"

http://www.amazon.com/Worthless-Young-Persons-Indispensable-Choosing/dp/1467978302/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421009366&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=cleary+worthless

That should save your waste of time studying useless shit.

How to Destroy A (Wo)Man Now (DAMN): A Handbook - amazon.com

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07BB2M54Y/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_api_i_lGc1Cb61526KY
A version for men, how to destroy a (wo)man now

> and a woman is far more likely to conceive through a casual fling than through sex with her regular partner

Sperm Wars: Infidelity, Sexual Conflict, and Other Bedroom Battles

https://www.amazon.com/Sperm-Wars-Infidelity-Conflict-Bedroom/dp/1560258489

As for Women who support or at least understand MGTOW I'd assume the two would be

Esther Vilar of The Manipulated man : https://www.amazon.com/Manipulated-Man-Esther-Vilar/dp/1905177178


and Dr. Helen Smith Of Men on Strike : https://www.amazon.com/Men-Strike-Boycotting-Marriage-Fatherhood/dp/1594037620


It's going to be harder to find sources that rationally argue against MGTOW because the typical arguments against MGTOW tend to attack mens sexuality , sexual abilities( incel / virgin ) , or tend to call men who do not subscribe to traditional male gender roles cowards and similar emasculating claims to evoke an emotional response .

The most common arguments against MGTOW are probably going to be listed as arguments in support of men marrying .

Exactly. Once you have integrity and refuse to SIMP for women? Female friends usually won’t want to be around you. The ones that would be left are the ones you can hang out with. MGTOW is warning you that all romantic/sexual/marital relationships cost more than they are worth. And a female will do some horrible things and even if you have proof? You can’t leave.

False paternity
False allegations of rape and child abuse
Alimony
palimony
Child support

metoo

times up

The list goes on and on. Most women believe in feminism and that alone is a red flag. There’s a book on sale on amazon How To Destroy A Man Now

How much of your life are you willing to sacrifice? We’re not saying you can’t hang out. But know the warning signs and be ready to run.