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Top comments that mention products on r/chapotraphouse2:

u/Xotta · 3 pointsr/chapotraphouse2

Thank you for investigating the claims and calling out my half-truths, I portrayed some and I will apologise for it, you read the materials and saw strait through them, it is absolutely correct that no massacre occurred at the square, however shots were fired outside of the square and people did die. For this quick and incisive bit of research, I can only congratulate you. I will no longer knowingly portray any half-truths and will only address a single point at a time in the detail necessitated to address the points at hand.

>As a side note I prefer my sources as unbiased as possible, an organisation being right-leaning counts as a demerit in my mind

Bias is implicit, the human experience is a subjective one, reality without subjective experience is what is called science, or it was, science was by Popper declared to only

To truly grasp the ontology of reality we must look towards philosophy, specifically Hegel, and what Hegal termed the Real I could derail for hours, days and weeks to elaborate on what this means but that would not be productive, for now, we simply have to accept bias on all sides and work out as best we can the topology of the Real. Primary sources certainly circumvent the wooliness of journalism but only so far as primary sources can be trusted, they are certainly not all created equal.

I am aware you made no claim of tens of thousands I only brought up the number to illustrate the variance in estimates in figures that were released to the public despite being released as known fictions.

I am going to knowingly leave a few points in the middle of your text for now despite being absolutely willing and able (I believe) To address them later, I am fully open to having my mind changed and make no mistake about that!

What I will instead do is address the end of your post;

>Apologies I don't have the time to go through all those links at present like you said it's Friday and I'm already drunk n a lil high, but I'm perfectly willing to continue this discussion, are there any links that you think to be particularly eye-opening?

>As an aside, what is your opinion on how relations between the Chinese government and the Falun Gong have been portrayed?

And bring up what I feel are the most relevant, interesting and game-changing pieces of information as I see them.

Firstly we must understand why the hard left always rants about the CIA, and work out what is reality and what is a fictitious boogieman. The history of the CIA's operations is so deep and murky as to be near unbelievable, and sometimes I suspect their own doings are overblown by the Americans themselves in attempt to scare those who dare oppose them, but this is a tangent, we shall stick to the very grounded first-hand accounts of what we know they have done and avoid speculation as best possible.

By the early 80s CIA meddling in geopolitics became almost a running joke, it was too obvious and intentions too clearly revealed, at some point in the late 70's the imperial machine decided on a strategy which has proven incredibly effective.

They use words, and specifically names, and new word and names appeared all over the place, very familiar phrases with very clear meanings. Worlds like Freedom, Democracy and terms such as Human rights.

In 1983 the National Endowment for Democracy was established, this lovely sounding agency funded by the state department grants funding to projects all over the world. I would suggest you search their database for some choice terms to see exactly what they fund.

Turkistan yields some interesting results, mainland, Hong Kong, Tibet, and plenty of others do too. These projects are NGO's, Non-government organizations, it's in the name! In fact, you can apply on the front page for grant's yourself, only if you are spreading freedom and democracy mind you, and where it's needed, Iraq, Syria, Venezuela, Hong Kong, would all be great starting points, just look at how many grants have been given for these terms.

Try it and read the names and objectives the NED is funding, now you may think them quite benign! Advocating human rights, creating more democracy, but I am afraid these terms cannot be taken at face value. They are not words, they are weapons, designed to shortcut critical analysis and instantly imbue one side with a sense of righteousness and justice.

But do not take my word for it, this claim needs investigating, you mentioned horror at the actions of the USA in the middle east, and I confess, long ago, this was the keystone for the path of critical investigation I have walked upon myself.

So about those words, Freedom, democracy and human rights!

As a side note, if you enjoy podcasts (of which I am a huge fan) I will recommend one right now, which is pretty impartial as far as these things go, called Citations Needed, they are barely left, very much liberal and investigate primarily the news, and specific terms the media likes to use, I absolutely recommend this episode on Human Rights - The Human Rights Concern Troll Industrial Complexas a starting point, I can guarantee you will not be disappointed.

The book I am currently reading (A brief history of neoliberalism) has some choice quotes regarding the use of terms like Freedom and Democracy, regarding Afganistan, and Iraq, in the early 2000s, I am not sure how many bombs have to be dropped to achieve these things, but I do know that America successfully brought economic freedom to the nationalised oil wells of Iraq, nothing as good as the free market is there?

I'm rambling it is late, I am drunk, my top recommendations would be this blog post

https://xenagoguevicene.wordpress.com/2019/06/26/china-uyghurs-and-political-islam-by-godfree-roberts-%E2%80%A2-25-june-2019/

With choice quotes from CIA staff;

>Twenty years later, in 1999, the CIA’s Islam strategist, Graham E. Fuller, announced, “The policy of guiding the evolution of Islam and of helping them against our adversaries worked marvellously well in Afghanistan against the Russians. The same doctrines can still be used to destabilize what remains of Russian power, and especially to counter the Chinese influence in Central Asia.”


The podcast citations needed, their critical analysis of media language is essential

https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-08-the-human-rights-concern-troll-industrial-complex

And then just a general history of China and the far east, I have been obsessed with China for about 18 years, however most of my learning was done before I became a communist. My most highly recommended textbook is this one;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/East-Asia-Cultural-Political-History/dp/1133606474

PDF's are available online and sometimes it comes up cheap.

Studying China is not, in my mind like studying a country, it is like studying a continent, one whose history has run parallel to the western world and intersected not so often.

I'd recommend this text, Parenti is a masterful investigator, and his sources are exemplary

Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth

These are massive issues and it is bloody difficult to know where to start, but one thing I would recommend is always looking into who is funding lovely sounding institutions like "the Uighur Institute in Europe".

Because once you learn how to spot the patterns of power at play the same themes start reoccurring over and over and over again. A great example when it comes to reports from dissidents is to examine what these people often have in common because very, very, very few of them are what the appear on the surface.

We can delve into some individual case studies at a later date but I'm going to sleep, it has been good chatting to you.

>As an aside, what is your opinion on how relations between the Chinese government and the Falun Gong have been portrayed?

Last quick note, on this I would like to hear your opinion, it is quite obvious the Falun Gong is a crazy religious cult funded by western interests, this is basically mainstream news by now, and yes China have been heavy-handed in the past. But the Falun Gong are fucking nasty themselves.

We are best however I think to study some slighty older cases first, Tibet is a great example, as with the sands of time facts have been uncovered, and "Free Tibet" is hardly a saying free of bias, now even the Wikipedia page admits to the CIA had funded the Dali Lama for 40 years, once we know the playbook of western power, the same themes will be apparent in today's news, but these are hidden in plain sight without having done the reading first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Tibetan_program

>In his 1991 autobiography Freedom in Exile, the 14th Dalai Lama criticized the CIA for supporting the Tibetan independence movement "not because they (the CIA) cared about Tibetan independence, but as part of their worldwide efforts to destabilize all communist governments".

Are we not seeing the same again? There is no compassion for any interest other than US power.

u/amnsisc · 9 pointsr/chapotraphouse2

Really interesting that in the 70s just as that Neoliberal ideology was hyping up, there were cultural criminologists writing exactly about that--the cultural norms of individuals & entrepreneurship, in the context of poverty and boundaries to access, will necessarily lead to violent actions. It's a very well supported thesis on the cultural/reflective side, though the statistical empirics are much harder to gauge.

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That said there are some who still pursue this project:

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https://global.oup.com/academic/product/in-their-own-words-9780190298272?cc=us&lang=en&

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https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/in-search-of-respect/249DEBEBF9C6D02A0CE1D9BB8A790DF4

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https://www.amazon.com/Cultural-Criminology-Jeff-Ferrell/dp/1446259161

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https://www.amazon.com/Code-Street-Decency-Violence-Moral/dp/0393320782/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=11MJQDNHZFCV6QZZARVC

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http://faculty.washington.edu/matsueda/courses/517/Readings/Goffman%20ASR%202009.pdf

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u/Big_Theta · 6 pointsr/chapotraphouse2

I gotchu homie

PM me your address before the boycott starts

u/dengistRonaldReagan · 1 pointr/chapotraphouse2

Ok so here's another book my internet and late stage capital addled powerful brain coughed up. Once again, not a historian, you're right, but he cites his sources and discrediting him based on his lack of pedigree is kind of nonsensical and almost classist.

Do you think I have a degree of any kind, besides a high school one? Because I don't. Everything I know about politcal and economic theory, as well as left history, I had to learn on my own. I'm to understand I'm an autodidact.

Edit: fucked up typing and posting to quck.