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u/[deleted] · 15 pointsr/exjw

It's a bunch of gobbledygook about the generations and the kingdom and all of that. It's all nonsense. In my humble opinion, you need to de-indoctrinate yourself to fully remove these types of fears. Not sure if I've shared this post with you before, but here's what I did personally:

Take some time to learn about the history of the bible. For example, you can take the Open Yale Courses on Religious Studies for free.

Read Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman

Also read A History of God by Karen Armstrong

Next, learn some actual science. For example - spoiler alert: evolution is true. Visit Berkeley's excellent Understanding Evolution Website.. Or, if you're pressed for time, watch this cartoon.

Read Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne

Read The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins

Learn about the origin of the universe. For example, you could read works by Stephen Hawking

Read A Briefer History of Time by Stephen Hawking

Learn about critical thinking from people like Michael Shermer, and how to spot logical fallacies.

For good measure, use actual data and facts to learn the we are NOT living in some biblical "last days". Things have gotten remarkably better as man has progressed in knowledge. For example, watch this cartoon explaining how war is on the decline..

Read The Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven Pinker

Another great source is the youtube series debunking 1914 being the start of the last days.

Another way to clear out the cobwebs is to read and listen to exiting stories. Here are some resources:

Here is a post with links to a bunch of podcasts interviewing JWs who've left

Here's another bunch of podcasts about JWs

Here is a great book from Psychotherapist and former JW Bonnie Zieman - Exiting the JW Cult: A Helping Handbook

I wish you the best. There is a whole world of legitimate information out there based on actual evidence that you can use to become a more knowledgeable person.

You may still wonder how you can be a good human without "the truth." Here is a good discussion on how one can be good without god. --Replace where he talks about hell with armageddon, and heaven with paradise--

To go further down the rabbit hole, watch this series.

Here's a nice series debunking most creationist "logic".

Start to help yourself begin to live a life where, as Matt Dillahunty puts it, you'll "believe as many true things, and as few false things as possible."

u/tazemanian-devil · 4 pointsr/exjw

Here's another side of the coin. Not necessarily to drag you out of the cult, but just some very awesome, beautiful truths. If you've seen me post this before, i apologize. I don't like to assume everyone reads every thread.

Take some time to learn about the history of the bible. For example, you can take the Open Yale Courses on Religious Studies for free.

Read Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman

Also read A History of God by Karen Armstrong

Next, learn some actual science. For example - spoiler alert: evolution is true. Visit Berkeley's excellent Understanding Evolution Website.. Or, if you're pressed for time, watch this cartoon.

Read Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne

Read The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins

Learn about the origin of the universe. For example, you could read works by Stephen Hawking

Read A Briefer History of Time by Stephen Hawking

Learn about critical thinking from people like Michael Shermer, and how to spot logical fallacies.

For good measure, use actual data and facts to learn the we are NOT living in some biblical "last days". Things have gotten remarkably better as man has progressed in knowledge. For example, watch this cartoon explaining how war is on the decline..

Read The Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven Pinker

Another great source is the youtube series debunking 1914 being the start of the last days.

I wish you the best. There is a whole world of legitimate information out there based on actual evidence that you can use to become a more knowledgeable person.

You may still wonder how you can be a good human without "the truth." Here is a good discussion on how one can be good without god. --Replace where he talks about hell with armageddon, and heaven with paradise--

Start to help yourself begin to live a life where, as Matt Dillahunty puts it, you'll "believe as many true things, and as few false things as possible."

u/matthewdreeves · 2 pointsr/exjw

Hello and welcome! Indoctrination in most cults can leave a person bitter about the world around them. Learning the actual facts about reality, the universe, and humanity is a good way to counter those negative feelings in my experience. Not sure how much of this applies to you, but here are my recommendations for de-indoctrinating yourself:

Take some time to learn about the history of the bible. For example, you can take the Open Yale Courses on Religious Studies for free.

Read Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman

Also read A History of God by Karen Armstrong

Watch this talk from Sam Harris where he explains why "free will" is likely an illusion, which debunks the entire premise of "the fall of man" as presented by most Christian religions.

Watch this video on the Cordial Curiosity channel that teaches how the "Socratic Method" works, which essentially is a way to question why we believe what we believe. Do we have good reasons to believe them? If not, should we believe them?

Watch this video by Theramin Trees that explains why we fall for the beliefs of manipulative groups in the first place.

This video explains why and how childhood indoctrination works, for those of us born-in to a high-control group.

Another great source is this youtube series debunking 1914 being the start of the last days.

Next, learn some science. For example - spoiler alert: evolution is true. Visit Berkeley's excellent Understanding Evolution Website. Or, if you're pressed for time, watch this cartoon.

Read Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne.

Read The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins.

Watch this series where Aron Ra explains in great detail how all life is connected in a giant family tree.

Learn about the origin of the universe. For example, you could read A Briefer History of Time by Stephen Hawking.

Learn about critical thinking from people like [Michael Shermer] (, and how to spot logical fallacies.

For good measure, use actual data and facts to learn the we are NOT living in some biblical "last days". Things have gotten remarkably better as man has progressed in knowledge. For example, watch this cartoon explaining how war is on the decline.

Read The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined by Steven Pinker.

Watch this Ted Talk by Hans Rosling, the late Swedish Statistician, where he shows more evidence that the world is indeed becoming a better place, and why we tend to wrongly convince ourselves otherwise.

I wish you the best. There is a whole world of legitimate information out there based on actual evidence that you can use to become a more knowledgeable person.

You may still wonder how you can be a good human without "the truth." Here is a good discussion on how one can be good without god. --Replace where he talks about hell with armageddon, and heaven with paradise--

Start to help yourself begin to live a life where, as Matt Dillahunty puts it, you'll "believe as many true things, and as few false things as possible."

u/zeyus · 1 pointr/exjw

Awesome, it's great you're so proud of her!

Haha knowledge that leads to everlasting boredom! Book studies were the worst, I always felt super obligated to study extra hard because there were so few people that often nobody would answer!

Don't be so sure that your family will keep abandoning you, it's possible sure, but there's always hope! Often they're surprised that you can leave the witnesses and live a normal, or even better than normal life (of course there's always the "blessed by satan" get out clause) but they do expect people who leave to get aids and die from a heroin overdose.

It's easy to prove them wrong! Either way though, you have your own family to look out for and you can learn what not to do!

On to the suggested reading. I've mentioned many on here before but I don't expect everyone to be aware of it all so here goes:

Reading (I have a kindle and love reading, but they're all available for ebook and in paperback)

u/JW_Skeptic · 1 pointr/exjw

I'm 38 now, but I woke up when I was almost 30. I felt the same way; that I had to start over again on a worldview. When I went back to college, I took every single class I could think of that the Watchtower Society would frown upon. For science, I took anthropology (emphasis on human biological evolution), astronomy, biology, geology, and earth history; lecture and lab for all classes. I also took anthropology of religion, magic, and witchcraft. I took an advanced upper level English course with an emphasis of ancient mythology. I took four philosophy classes, intro to philosophy, logic in practice, critical thinking and composition, and philosophy of religion. All of this served as a foundation for a secular worldview.

First and foremost, you need to learn how to think and not what to think. This is where philosophy comes in. An Introductory Philosophy class at a local community college is a great start. Logic, particularly informal logic and logical fallacies should be learned first. Identifying logical fallacies is what will help you differentiate between good information and bad information. The reason the Watchtower Society admonishes against higher education, is because a critical thinking component is generally a standard part of a General Education guideline. A first year college freshman will learn the intellectual tools necessary to recognize the logical fallacies, rhetoric, and deceptive tactics used by politicians, advertisers, and religious authorities, such as Watchtower. If you can't take a philosophy class, search YouTube for "Philosophy for beginners" and then search "informal logic for beginners". Once you have a full understanding of logical fallacies (which is part of informal logic), you will become dismayed of how much Watchtower uses them, and how JWs are oblivious to this. You'll see it in politics and union propaganda as well, so there are other benefits too. On a side note, this video was shown in my Introductory Philosophy and Philosophy of Religion classes: There are striking parallels to waking up from the JW religion and Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Going back into the cave is not an option.

With the background of learning how to think, topics in science, and everything else comes a lot easier. Although courses in anthropology, biology, and earth history (which includes history of life on earth) do teach evolution, the basics of biological evolution can be found on YouTube by searching "evolution for dummies". Once you understand what it is, then look at the evidence for evolution. This is an important second step, because unlike Creationism, there are tons of evidence for evolution. This is where the "aha" moments comes from. I recommend this article by the Khan Academy: I also recommend the book Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne. He goes into detail the five pillars of evidence for evolution; comparative anatomy, genetics, biogeography, and embryology. This book is found in most public libraries, so you can check it out for free get it on Amazon: Also, check out the Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism series on YouTube:

Understand that learning all of this is not easy. It takes time and patience. But the payoff in the end is well worth it. It's not like going to a meeting and hearing the same recycled drivel over and over again. I'm still not refined on a political position. All I can say is that I do not identify with any party because doing so obligates me to defend that platform. I like certain things from each party, and I vote accordingly. However, you can take an online "what political party am I quiz" to get a sense of where you are.

u/LRE · 8 pointsr/exjw

Random selection of some of my favorites to help you expand your horizons:

The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan is a great introduction to scientific skepticism.

Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris is a succinct refutation of Christianity as it's generally practiced in the US employing crystal-clear logic.

Augustus: The Life of Rome's First Emperor by Anthony Everitt is the best biography of one of the most interesting men in history, in my personal opinion.

Travels with Herodotus by Ryszard Kapuscinski is a jaw-dropping book on history, journalism, travel, contemporary events, philosophy.

A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson is a great tome about... everything. Physics, history, biology, art... Plus he's funny as hell. (Check out his In a Sunburned Country for a side-splitting account of his trip to Australia).

The Annotated Mona Lisa by Carol Strickland is a thorough primer on art history. Get it before going to any major museum (Met, Louvre, Tate Modern, Prado, etc).

Not the Impossible Faith by Richard Carrier is a detailed refutation of the whole 'Christianity could not have survived the early years if it weren't for god's providence' argument.

Six Easy Pieces by Richard Feynman are six of the easier chapters from his '63 Lectures on Physics delivered at CalTech. If you like it and really want to be mind-fucked with science, his QED is a great book on quantum electrodynamics direct from the master.

Lucy's Legacy by Donald Johanson will give you a really great understanding of our family history (homo, australopithecus, ardipithecus, etc). Equally good are Before the Dawn: Recovering the Lost History of Our Ancestors by Nicholas Wade and Mapping Human History by Steve Olson, though I personally enjoyed Before the Dawn slightly more.

Memory and the Mediterranean by Fernand Braudel gives you context for all the Bible stories by detailing contemporaneous events from the Levant, Italy, Greece, Egypt, etc.

After the Prophet by Lesley Hazleton is an awesome read if you don't know much about Islam and its early history.

Happy reading!

edit: Also, check out the Reasonable Doubts podcast.

u/majkui · 2 pointsr/exjw

I will give my response to your post. I read the other comments, thinking that I would just add to what they said without repeating what had already been said, but realized that then my own comment would become fragmented if I took that into account, so I will ignore what others have said.


> I lied to the elders by saying I read it when I got baptised after they asked if I read the bible everyday.

I think this is a very common lie. I don't think many elders have read the Bible either.

In fact, every single time some Jehovah's Witness say "I know this is the truth, because I have investigated the evidence myself" they are lying.

Another very common lie: "I don't masturbate"

The truth is, almost everyone masturbates, most people have not read the Bible, and every single one that has actually investigated the evidence for themself has left the religion, at least mentally.


> I’m a slow reader (I think I might have adhd. Should I see a doctor?) and I’m up to Genesis 3.

Going to a doctor could be a good idea, perhaps. I don't know the extent of your problem.

Personally, when I haven't been reading anything for a long time, in the way I read the Bible, then it will be slower. But then if I keep at it for a few days or a week I will speed up. Sometimes if I read two hours straight, the first hour I will read with difficulty, but the second hour I read much better. Another thing that could speed up your reading is if you don't speak the words, neither out loud nor in your head, because it takes time to "pronounce" the words. But reading text without even pronouncing it mentally is not something everyone knows how to do, and I don't know how to teach it.

Though, even if you only read the text in the same speed as you speak normally, you will still easily read through the Bible in a year, unless your life is busy.


> I’m very very confused about Genesis 1 and 2 so far as it seems like it contradicts itself so much.

My understanding of the scientific explanation is that Genesis 2 was written first by one author, and later Genesis 1 was written by another author and added to the beginning of Genesis, and the theologies of those authors are different.

The first author, who wrote Genesis 2 about Adam and Eve, thought, according to my own understanding of the text, that humans were first created as mere animals, and then they gained "knowledge of good and bad" and became more than animals. This was why they were naked without feeling any shame, because they were just as any other animals. The author was a child of his time and culture, and thought it was uncivilized to be naked, unaware that it is a cultural idea not universal to humans.

This might also explain why the snake could speak: the author might have thought that as Adam and Eve were just mere animals, they could speak the same language as animals. Though there are other possible explanations.

Christians usually describe the events in Eden as "the Fall", but this is not supported by the text. Instead, it is "the Ascension". The two trees represent two qualities of gods that set gods apart from animals. The "knowledge of good and bad" represents the author's understanding of the mental difference between humans and animals, which he believed originally only belonged to the gods.

Jehovah lied to Adam and Eve about the tree, essentially saying that it was poisonous, to keep them from eating and ascending to the level of the gods. The snake revealed the truth, and they ate and became as gods. Jehovah felt threatened by this, and expelled them from Eden to prevent them from gaining the second quality of gods: eternal life, by eating from the tree of life.

This was the author's explanation why humans are partly divine, by having knowledge as gods, and partly animal, by being mortal as animals.

The second author, who wrote Genesis 1, disagreed. He thought God created the humans in the image of God from the outset. There was never any time when humans were only mere animals, and no "Ascension". There was never a "tree of knowledge".

The second author plagiarized a pre-existing creation myth, and made some changes. One of the changes was that he removed a battle between God and the cosmic waters, because according to the second author, God is omnipotent. The original audience knew the pre-existing myth, and could notice the difference, but most modern readers don't know about the pre-existing story.

Genesis 1:1-3 should read something like

> When God began to create sky and land—the land being unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of Tehom and a wind from God sweeping over the water—God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

In the original story, there was a battle between the gods and Tehom. In Hebrew, "Tehom" is a proper noun, a name, even though most translations hide this.

The Watchtower Society brags about not hiding the fact that "YHWH" is a name, and transcribes it as "Jehovah", but they are still guilty of hiding the name "Tehom" and other names in the Bible such as "El". (Also, as others have stated, the Watchtower inserts the name "Jehovah" into the Bible where "YHWH" is not found, like in the New Testament.)

This is just how I understand it, though it is also based on what I have heard from scholars. I may have gotten details wrong.

When I was PIMI and read it not too carefully, I thought that the story about Adam and Eve "zoomed in" on the sixth day of creation. Thus, Genesis 1 described the creation of heaven and earth and humans, while Genesis 2 took a closer look at the creation of humans. Now I don't believe this is correct.

If one tries to read Genesis as a single coherent story, to the limited degree it is possible, then this is probably how I would read it today: First God created sky, land (a flat earth in an earth-sized snow globe), and humans in six (literal) days, then he rested on the seventh day, then after an unspecified time, Jehovah created Adam, that started out as a mere animal, but then ascended. Thus Adam and Eve were not the first humans, though it seems the first humans were gone, because there were no one to tilt the ground.


> Anyway, what translation should I use? ... Of course, there’s the King Lebron James Version, the American standard version and a bunch of others too. I want an actual physical copy of the bible too, I’m a young person but I’m so sick of looking at technology all the time so I’d prefer an actual bible. I also don’t want a biased translation or one that may have just added or removed things from the bible where they see fit. I want a bible as close to the original texts as possible.

I like the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) (specifically as The New Oxford Annotated Bible, 5th ed.) and the New Jewish Publication Society's Tanakh (NJPS) (as The Jewish Study Bible, 2nd ed.).

However, there is no translation without bias, or even without mistranslations. At least not one of the whole Bible in a single volume.

But there are definitively better ones and worse ones.

Some things that speak in favour of NRSV:

  • NRSV is an Ecumenical translation, involving Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox, and the Old Testament involves a Jewish translator as well. This means that when they disagree about the interpretation, they tend to stick to the more literal reading that they all agree on. It still has bias, but not as much as translations made by a single denomination.

  • NRSV is created by non-fundamentalists, which means a higher acceptance of a scientific understanding of the text.

  • NRSV is on the spectrum towards a formal translation, which means it is closer to a word-for-word translation. This means it has less smooth English, but also less room for bias.

  • NRSV is recommended by academics, both by secular scholars and non-fundamentalist Christian scholars.

    When I first started researching different translations to decide which ones I should get, I thought "Using 'Jehovah' or 'Yahweh' is superior to using 'the LORD', so I will start looking at translations that use 'Jehovah' and 'Yahweh'", but I soon realized that the winner was NRSV despite not using 'Jehovah/Yahweh'.

    The Watchtower brags about getting "YHWH" right, but the name "YHWH" is only about 1% of the total number of words. Getting 1% of the words right, while being dodgy about the remaining 99% isn't that impressive.

    Sometimes the gender neutral language of NRSV is criticized. An example of the gender neutral language is that in the New Testament the phrase "brothers and sisters" is used where many mainstream translations use "brothers". This isn't necessarily wrong, because the Greek word could refer to an all-male group or a mixed gender group. But some have said that NRSV occasionally use gender neutral language where the intended meaning is not gender neutral.
u/runningthehellout · 2 pointsr/exjw

Besides Combating Cult Mind Control, Crisis of Conscious and The God Delusion (The trinity of exjw books? :D) a great book is "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry Coyne, it cleared up some misconceptions I had on evolution even after researching it. Also enjoyed the explanation on why there are some gaps in the fossil record as well, but overall it really solidified the fact that evolution has enormous irrefutable evidence backing its explanation.

"A Universe From Nothing" by Lawrence Krauss, explains the big bang and the physics of empty space. There is always something rather than nothing and basically the universe had to exist with the properties it does or otherwise it couldn't. (lol I promise im not celebrating 4/20) He did not do a very good job of explaining some of the physics principles in layman's terms so reading another introductory physics book would probably be best. I read "The Elegant Universe" by Brian Greene before and was still scratching my head a few times... but that might just be my own ineptitude.

"Beyond Religion - Ethics For A Whole World" by the Dali Lama. It was refreshing to read a book by a spiritual leader that actually gets the bigger picture. He talks about where ethics come from, why all people despite their background can be morally upright and that one does not need to be religiously inclined to lead an ethical, happy life that contributes to society. Mainly its a call for understanding and tolerance of others. I plan on sharing with my witness parents and friends to help them escape their narrow minded point of view that atheists and other non witnesses are heathens while respecting their religion... as much as I disagree.

I keep hearing A History of God brought up and Jesus Misquoted so they are next on my book list. I had started on the demon haunted world but have not finished it yet. Also, has anyone read this book yet...

Stumbled upon it the other day and thought it looked a little wacky but might be an entertaining read comparing 1984 to witnesses.

P.S. - Here is a shameless plug for the /r/atheism reading list...

Maybe we should start our own on the side bar. :)

u/Meganekko_85 · 1 pointr/exjw

It is really normal to miss the structure and community of the JWs. I did a few counselling sessions and I had to explain to the counsellor that it is not just leaving a religion, you are leaving your entire culture, your entire social support system.

It was very validating for me to be told that leaving the JWs was a traumatic experience and I'm clearly going through a grieving process.

Things that have helped me:

  • realise you need time to discover your real identity after it has been suppressed for so long. This includes
    re-examining everything you have been taught since you were a child, not just religious stuff, but some people may have been told they are not smart or too emotional and they believe it - and it is not true.
  • make it your goal to prioritise building yourself a new social support system. One that will be there you. Boyfriends come and go, but friends are forever. Join a bookclub. See if there are any local social meetup groups on Facebook. -- Making non-JW friends is going to take longer and more effort than you're used to.
  • Start building a bucket list of things you would like to try. Even having a Pinterest page for inspiration helps.
  • seeking counselling / therapy to learn how to adjust and cope

    Books I highly recommend:
  • Exiting the JW Cult handbook a good stepping stone before counselling. It helped me label and identify all the emotions and issues I was experiencing so I could communicate it better.

  • Combatting Cult Mind Control - Steve Hassan. This may sound a bit scary but if you look at the BITE Model and find it resonates with you I encourage reading this book and highlighting the passages which match your experiences.
u/Pixelated_ · 5 pointsr/exjw

Reading Ray Franz's book opened my eyes and I'll be forever grateful to that dear man. Here it is, it was just re-released this week! It's quickly sold out but will be in stock very soon.

Reading your post made my heart glad, and you can take a deep breath, you will be fine. The fact that you're here now shows you've already taken the first big step in getting your freedom.

I was in your shoes 2 years ago and i still can remember the incredible relief that I felt when I realized Armageddon is made up, they just use it to control the rank and file, identical to the Catholics and their fearmongering about Hell.

Reasearch! Research! Research, the King and his Kingdom!

In research you will find your freedom. It's better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie.

u/Reasonable_Thinker · 6 pointsr/exjw

Dude, you need to research your shit. Stop this apathy and get some knowledge, it's the only thing that I know of that can stop the guilt your feeling.

The witnesses are wrong in a lot of ways, you made a really good step by joining this board. You need to be the change you want to see, research the bible and history, figure out what you actually believe and learn it well enough that you can defend it.

This will help you get over the guilt, IDK what to do about your family situation. That is something else entirely but I think its a really good idea for you to gain some real knowledge about the witnesses past and about their theology.

I recommend starting with "The History of God" by Karen Armstrong:

Its a great book, easy read, and I think it will help a lot. Good luck brother.

u/ziddina · 2 pointsr/exjw

>The copy of Crisis of Conscience that I have is a first edition hardcover. I see that there are many revisions of this work. What has changed between the first edition and the fifth edition?

I just gave a 1st edition to another redditor on here, & have a 4th edition in my possession.

And now I can't find any sort of preview of the 1st edition online...

In my copy, there are black-&-white photos in a few of the early chapters. As I recall, the 1st edition lacked those. Also, the last part of the book has a 13th chapter entitled "Perspective". Looking at the dates of his comments in that chapter, I see that many took place well past the original printing's date of 1983. So likely much of that chapter (which contains an overview, plus comments on developments within the Watchtower Society during the 1990's & into the early 2000's) focuses on developments subsequent to the 1st (2nd & 3rd) printings.

>I may have misread things (and it's certainly possible since I'm unfamiliar with both the New Testament and JW-isms), but Ray seems to write about the pre-1975 era of his time in the organization with great fondness.

I did not get that impression at all. From chapter 7 "Predictions and Presumption" [page 172] through chapter 9 "1975: 'The Appropriate Time for God to Act'," [page 253], Ray Franz dissects the origins of their multiple false prophecies and the hubris of the Watchtower Society's claims surrounding their biggest prophecy (and failure) of 1975.

The next chapter, [chapter 10] "1914 and 'This Generation'," discusses the fallout from the failed false prophecy of 1975 & subsequent structural changes within the organization.

But the only time I ever perceived Ray Franz as having any positive feelings towards anything associated with the Watchtower Society, was when he spoke of individual members who had served faithfully, and were then cast aside like trash by the very organization they'd served so long & loyally. Undoubtedly he was feeling quite a bit of that betrayal in his own situation.

I did a brief analysis of Raymond Franz' possible motivations in this thread, in case you're interested:

I don't think he had much nostalgia for the earlier years of Knorr (who served under Rutherford, who was a terrible bully), or for the period of the initial Governing Body.

>What are some other books that you would recommend? I'm not really familiar with the ex-JW literary landscape.

There are dozens (if not more) books written about the JWs. I personally would recommend:

Haven't read this one yet, but it looks fascinating:

That should get you started...

>4) What happened between Ray and the rest of his family? There is almost no mention of Fred Franz after the inquisition started - did they ever communicate with each other after it began or did Fred never speak to him again after they started becoming suspicious of Ray?

As I recall, "Fractured Freddie" (my nickname for that idiot) Franz never spoke to his nephew after the witch-hunt began at Bethel. Nor did ol' "Fractured Freddie" (who allegedly talked to his shoes, later in life) apparently lift a finger to help his beleaguered nephew at any point during that witch-hunt.

u/LettmypeopleGo · 5 pointsr/exjw

My younger teenage self liked this one: King Arthur by Roger Lancelyn Green. I simultaeously found this book and a tape of Led Zeppelin's greatest hits. They synced up incredibly well. "Battle of Evermore" especially, although Lord of the Rings probably fits that song best.

What kind of books are you interested in?

An idea! -> You might get some awesome ideas and do some great exJW awareness by posting this question over at /r/books. Explaining you were in a religion that controlled what you could read and think...the members over there might get a kick out of helping you with suggestions!

[edit] Oooh, you wanted useful books. Sorry. I think I badly wanted to reread the King Arthur book (just watched Excaliber again on HBO/Netflix), so I didn't pay attention to the word "useful". Sorry!

The Bible Unearthed was fascinating.

u/postliterate · 4 pointsr/exjw

Good! It's impossible NOT to see parallels between the JW world and that Orwellian dystopia (there's a book you might like: The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses

I too learned to be very good at doublethink. Took me almost two years after I was free, mentally, to be free physically - because I still lived at home. My online exJW friends were instrumental in helping me get through that time. Be patient, smile and nod, and lean on us. :-)

u/AHRoulette · 5 pointsr/exjw

Maybe he is (like many) afraid of the consequences of choosing to challenge and/or walk away from the cult. JW's are really good at shunning friends and family members and most people can't deal with losing everyone and everything they have ever known.

Using the internet is not against the rules and he might think that he can convert Atheists by talking to them and debating them. He also probably thinks that doing this makes "Jehovah" happy.

Try to sneak this or better yet, valid points from it, into conversation. I wouldn't be very blatant about it, but if you're digging in, then that book is a GREAT place to dig. Be careful though, because he is trained to adamantly reject "apostate" (aka any former member who says JW's are NOT the one true religion) material. The author of that book was shunned as an apostate and is/was loathed by any JW who knows of him. THAT is how you know it's such a good book! ;-)

All in all, the JW cult is full of A++ mind're friend is probably a victim.

u/Trapped_In_The_Truth · 4 pointsr/exjw

Also you asked for a book. Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan is an excellent book!! The beauty of this book and the author is that Steven is not or was ever a JW. He was associated with the Moonies in the 70's.

JW's believe anyone who was ever a JW and is no longer is an "apostate." JW's view "apostate's" as enemies of "God's Organization" and thus are commanded to never talk to them, read anything the publish, or listen to anything they say. (The reason for the "quotation marks" is that JW's view anyone who is critical of their organization as apostate whether they were a JW or not. Also they are not "God's Organization" they are a CULT by every definition of the word. But please be gentle when using that word with active JW's, they don't realize it yet, and a mental barrier will immediately go up.)

Since Steven doesn't mention JW's it may help your friend to indirectly realize that she is in cult, without ever fully saying so.

Hope this helps!

u/PoobahJeehooba · 5 pointsr/exjw

Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History available on iTunes podcasts as well.

Steven Pinker’s book The Better Angels of our Nature is a fantastic total annihilation of Watchtower’s constant fearmongering about how much violence there is in the world and how it’s only getting worse.

Basically anything by Richard Dawkins is evolutionary biology gold, highly recommend his book The Greatest Show on Earth

Neil deGrasse Tyson recently released a great book Astrophysics for People in a Hurry that gives so many mind-blowing facts about our universe in quick-to-read fashion. His podcast StarTalk Radio is fascinating and fun as well.

Bart D Ehrman is a fantastic biblical scholar, his book Forged examines the Gospel writers and why many are not who the religious believe them to be.

u/Sara_Ludwig · 1 pointr/exjw

Why can’t you go to college? Is it grades or finances? A state community college is a great place to start. The financial assistance is good too. You can talk to the financial aid department about what you qualify for and how and when to apply for it.
As for your boyfriend, he may not be a quipped to discuss all the things you are going through from leaving a cult. A counselor would be able to help you better.
There is a great book, Exiting the JW Cult A Healing Handbook, that can help you available on Amazon.

u/mobius_sp · 4 pointsr/exjw

Finding out that everything you believed in was a lie is rough. Losing a sense of belonging is also rough. Losing emotional support when you live in a house controlled by a domineering person... well, you get the picture. It's all rough. The question then becomes "is losing any or all of that worth waking up for?" How would she react to it all? What is gained by waking up to TTATT? Personally, I really think life is better without the organization, even if it's taken me a couple of years to begin to build up a new base of friends, and the majority of them are Facebook friends who live thousands of miles from me (I think that might say something about my comfort levels with people being close to me...) There are ways for her to gain more social contacts outside of the organization.

If you choose to try to wake her up, I strongly suggest reading books like Carl Steve Hassan's Combatting Cult Mind Control. It provides a lot of good advice in trying to help wake up a loved one.

Edit: I have no idea where the name Carl popped into my head from, but it's supposed to be Steve Hassan. Thanks, /u/queensvillage1976, for pointing that out to me.

u/Upliftingmofo · 2 pointsr/exjw

No, this isn't wrong. We certainly have all been there. Truth doesn't require you to not read certain things to remain true. While some things can be confusing, and some require a serious study to get to the bottom of, you should never be afraid of questioning something to prove whether it is true or not. If it's true, you don't have to worry about questioning it.

I was really uncomfortable with the idea of "apostates" myself for a long time; it's been hammered into you from a young age, of course it's scary to think that you might be tricked. But for one thing, there is no trick. You'll have to figure that out for yourself, but I'd encourage you to start trying to figure it out.

Combatting Cult Mind Control was written by Steven Hassan, who had no exposure to the Witnesses prior to writing this book. He writes about his experiences as a Moonie, and the techniques the Unification Church (and others) used to attract people to their organization and keep them in it. You don't have to worry about it being an "apostate" book, since he certainly wasn't affiliated with the witnesses, and didn't even know about them.

The similarities between the Unification Church, and his experience in it, along with the analysis of various other high control groups will help you see that many groups rely on the idea that speaking to former members is one of the worst sins imaginable. It isn't, of course, but it makes an effective tool to keep people tied in to an organization.

If you can, pick up a copy and read it. Visit Hassan's site for a quick overview, this is a good place to start: BITE Model

This isn't an effort to convince you that the organization is a cult, it's just a presentation of how many cults work. Take a look and see if you see any of these elements in the way the organization works.

Let us know how you're doing, though, if you would. We have a pretty caring community here, and it includes some worriers - myself included, I suppose. When people pop on, especially when they're in tough spots, we want to hear that they're doing ok. I hope you are.

u/seeminglylegit · 1 pointr/exjw

I am so sorry that this is happening to you. You are right to be concerned - this could very easily tear your family apart. I have seen it happen firsthand when someone in my family was recruited into the Dubs then became totally alienated from her non-Dub husband. You could very easily end up in a situation where both your wife and your child are brainwashed into thinking you are a bad influence and that only other Dubs are worth spending time with. You definitely do not want to be complacent about this. The JWs are not "just another religion". It is a very dangerous and nasty cult.

My advice would be to immediately start "studying" the JWs yourself - but NOT with their own material. JWs don't know their own history very well at all, but you can find a lot of eye opening stuff using outside materials like

Here are the three books that I would strongly recommend you purchase and start reading right away:

The Reluctant Apostate: Leaving the Jehovah's Witnesses (a very long and well-researched explanation of the JWs - if you can only read one of these books, I would make it this one)

Combating Cult Mind Control (not focused on just the JWs, but a general book about how cults operate and how to try to work with someone to get them out)

Crisis of Conscience (an older book written by one of the "Governing Body" members that ended up leaving the religion)

If you read those books, you will learn a LOT about how the JWs operate and have ample proof that this is not a legitimate religion. However, you can't confront her directly with this info. She has been programmed by the cult to reject any direct attack on the religion.
However, as you read them, you will probably think of some questions that you'll have for your wife about the Dubs. Start asking her questions NOT in an aggressive way but just in a "curious" sort of way. For example, "What do you make of [this thing]? What is the JW explanation for that?"

When people are being brainwashed, you can't confront them directly about it. That just makes them dig their heels in. You have to slowly dismantle the belief system by asking them questions and forcing them to realize for themselves that the cult doesn't have a good answer for it.

I also recommend trying your best to find excuses to spend time away from home on meeting days to keep her away from the dubs as much as possible. Time spent away from the indoctrination sessions can often help people realize on their own that it is bullshit.

u/codedface · 2 pointsr/exjw

Ha. Ok then there is always this book to help you prepare. Steven Hassan is the creator of the BITE model. His insights are world renown on the subject. One thing the video and his books tall about is to not go in wanting to get them out. The key is to try to get them to think for themselves. The rest will follow. Maybe

Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults, and Beliefs

u/EzeKilla · 1 pointr/exjw

> Besides even if she knew TTATT she'd just have a host of new stresses to deal with, ones I know only too well.

I understand where you are coming from but this is the equivalent of treating your adult wife like a child. She deserves to know the truth. Only when we have the most reliable information are we equipped to make the most informed decisions.

Change your tactics. Try the Socratic method by asking her the type of questions that make her think. I know it's overwhelmingly difficult but you need to resist the urge to just bombard her with facts/information. Her JW indoctrination is a sophisticated piece of software. You have to use finesse here instead of a direct approach.

I recommend you read some of this if you haven't already. I fucked up badly when I woke up and immediately tried to wake up my family. Wish I had read that book first.

u/themochen · 1 pointr/exjw

I bought three translations, two in English:

The New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha (NRSV) (I bought the 4th ed, but I linked the 5th ed)

The Jewish Study Bible, 2nd ed. (NJPS)

Then I have two different editions of the Masoretic text, based on the Leningrad Codex.

Then I have The Kingdom Interlinear, which despite being published by the Watchtower is kept together with the non-WT Bibles due to it containing the Greek text.

These I will probably keep for a long time, as the Bible is historically a very important work, unless they are replaced with better alternatives.

Then I keep a small reference library of WT stuff, which includes a few versions of NWT, the Reasoning book, Insight, Daniel's Prophecy, etc. All of it I got from WT while PIMI/PIMO, which means that no JW can question the authenticity of the information in it.

When I want to know what the Bible says, I look it up in my three non-WT Bibles and compare them, and tentatively accept whatever they all agree on while remaining agnostic about whatever they don't agree on.

I am also in the process of reading through the Bible, to learn what it says without bias.

u/The-Daily-Dose · 18 pointsr/exjw

Where to begin?! Lol welcome.

At this point there’s quite a few ways to disbelieve the JW doctrine. Many people will fill you in I’m sure and debate over doubts here within the comment section. If you were really interested in knowing. I’d suggest:

John Cedars

Start from the very beginning if you’d like to view all the doubts via video format. There’s a lot of substance within that channel so I’d def start there. If your into podcasts I’d suggest:

This JW Life


The Prodigal Boys

The Daily Dose

Book References:

Crisis Of Conscience

The Reluctant Apostate

Combating With Cult Mind Control

u/HairyHeGoat · 2 pointsr/exjw

I never managed to get into the second book, but I think you've inspired me to do so. Read CoC, am in the middle of The Reluctant Apostate at the moment (can be found here: ) ... but I will give 'In Search of Christian Freedom' a read very soon.

Thank you.

u/ClosetedIntellectual · 11 pointsr/exjw

The childhood indoctrination can be very strong, and deeply affect the paradigms that govern our perspective of the world. You are also struggling with a brain anomaly which can at times limit your ability to cope with these disturbing thoughts. You seem to be taking excellent care of yourself despite it though. If you are already seeing a mental health professional, make sure that they know your background in the JW Cult. All of these delusional beliefs you are experiencing are 100% commonplace among Jehovah's Witnesses, and you need to take care that your doctor understands this, so they do not misdiagnose you as having a relapse in your condition. You are struggling with the residual effects of the belief system, itself.

You seem very self aware of your condition. Here are some resources that might get your mind working on how to talk to your therapist about what you are experiencing:




Hang in there OP...

u/berrygerry · 2 pointsr/exjw

I feel that the best years of life are between 21 and 24.

Attend college - treat your schoolwork seriously, with a decent measure of fun thrown in.

The friends and GF's will come (and cum).

To understand why we all feel so messed up, take a look here:

Bonnie's book is a MUST-READ.

u/Jowitness · 11 pointsr/exjw

For the love of your future and mental health, read THIS BOOK If you only do ONE thing after you leave the it! It will save you from years of heartache and confusion. You will know why and how you fell for it and how to avoid getting taken advantage of by these groups in the future. Not to mention reconciling that it happened at all. I promise you will not be disappointed. You do not have to do this on your own. There are people who are willing to help.

u/mr_sesquipedalian · 2 pointsr/exjw

Hey Dave,

I wanted to respond to this for a few days now. Sorry for the late reaction ;-).

It makes sense to be terrified at doom days predictions. We're all human and nobody is bulletproof to nonsensical ideas. You will find that even the smartest around us, believe in really silly things. This goes much further than religion. Alternative medicine (homeopathy, reiki, acupuncture), religion, conspiracy theories (911, Elvis still lives, we didn't land on the moon).

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we had a systematic way of knowing if 'things we know' (or ideas) were true or false. It would have to be testable and repeatable. and no matter what your origin was: American, African, Asian, European, you would have to come objectively to the same conclusion.

Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.

I would argue that most people don't want to become disassociated with JWs anymore, because it's the most logic step, but because they don't feel that way anymore. In the end humans are guided much more by their feelings than logic. We consider ourself a logic bunch, but when it comes to reality, most people take the decision with their feelings and then rationalize them self right using logic. Then what happens, is that although this person is not a JW anymore, they are still susceptible to other ideas, like alternative medicine, conspiracies or other religions. And this is really where scientific literacy comes into play.

Since you said you're a techy, I think you will like the following recommendations. I really encourage you to google and watch the following people on youtube:

Sam Harris

Daniel Dennett

Christopher Hitchens

Richard Dawkins

Neil degrasse Tyson

And read:

u/Disguisedasasmile · 2 pointsr/exjw

Of course!

This was amazingly helpful to me:

Teaches you the history and context behind the Hebrew Bible and Greek Scriptures. It’s a great intro to a deeper look at the Bible. I learned so much from those two courses. They are pretty long, but well worth it.

Then I would recommend checking out Bart D Erhman’s books. He has a few lectures on audible and YouTube.

Also, I highly recommend reading Ray Franz’s book Crisis of Conscience. He was a Governing Body member in the 70s/80s who left and wrote an autobiography about his experiences. It’s mind blowing.

u/Supervisor194 · 1 pointr/exjw

Once I woke up from unreservedly believing in fairy tales because that's what my parents taught me to believe - I tried tackling this question. I've never really stopped. Truth to me is what I know it is NOT. Truth with a capital T quickly brings us to very fundamental philsophical questions that may be beyond our comprehension in the way a shoe is beyond the comprehension of an ant.

The book that has helped me the very most in my quest was without question The Demon Haunted World - Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan. For what we can know to be Truth, this book is an excellent guide to help keep people grounded. It's a fun read, too. Highly recommended.

u/deadflow3r · 3 pointsr/exjw

I can't stress to you enough. However you can get Raymond Franz's book Crisis of Conscience you can find it here

heck I'll but it for you if you can't purchase online. It is a must read for anyone like you who need help seeing things more clearly.

u/garbonzo607 · 2 pointsr/exjw

Thanks for the kind words. If I wrote a book it would likely turn out to just be a copy of this one, replacing a few of the words with "Jehovah's Witnesses", etc. and I don't want to be sued for plagarism. 😆

I'm sure asking for more book recommendations on the topic would prove fruitful.

Where is that video? I can't find it. I just don't want for you to get your hopes up. Peter Boghossian has years of experience and he says it's really rare to wake up a believer. All we can do is try.

u/orphan1256 · 1 pointr/exjw

James Penton has written a couple of excellent books:

And for Orwellian fans, Gary and Heather Botting's book is a classic:

Botting also has some great research published about the WTs legal history. Check his website for more.

Edit to add: all of the above books should be available for borrow through the public library system

u/sethra007 · 1 pointr/exjw

I encourage you to read Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz. Franz is the nephew of Frederick Franz, and was a member of the Governing Body from 1971 - 1980. He was disfellowshipped and declared an apostate when, while leading chronology research for the Aid to Bible Understanding encyclopedia, his findings led him to question key teachings of church.

Again, this was Ray Franz, from a family of JWs, who rose about as high as you could possibly rise in the church, and who'd devoted over forty years in the service of the church. The GB ran Franz out on a rail for asking simple and logical questions that, per them, should have been ludicrously easy for them to answer.

I can get you a copy of the book. I'll send you a PM.

u/rachamacc · 2 pointsr/exjw

Here's some books I've found that I think help explain the JW experience. Your library system might have some of these.

Jehovah's Witnesses: Portrait of a Contemporary Religious Movement A sociological study on the religion. Holden gets some doctrines wrong, but I think that's minor compared to how well this describes the experience in terms a therapist would probably find useful.

[Combatting Cult Mind Control] ( Steve Hassan was in the Moonies but the methods are the same. Freaked me out when I first read it.

I'm Perfect, You're Doomed If you haven't read this yet, I highly recommend it. It's hard to get through sometimes because she's not always likeable and sometimes really pathetic, but weren't we all?

u/qarano · 4 pointsr/exjw

"The Greatest Show on Earth" by Richard Dawkins. It is a very easy to follow book about evolution, how it works, and why we know it's fact.

u/53R63 · 2 pointsr/exjw

I'm reading The Bible Unearthed at the moment. Pretty much covers the early history of ancien Israel up to the return from the Babylone. A great read so far.

u/Jennsinc · 3 pointsr/exjw

You need to stay connected to this group. You are going to see things/read things that is going to help you see the problem is NOT you. It is the Organization. Im still a believer in God. And i can tell you it is a satanic cult. You need to watch this true story documentary about the jw history

Also, you need this book by the only Governing Body member to ever "wake up" and leave. He remained a Christian. Just no denomination. Have it sent to your work or a non jw family or friend

u/StevenHassanFOM · 3 pointsr/exjw

I suggest reading the book I wrote on helping people be empowered to think for themselves. it is called Freedom of Mind I think making friends with other folks, ex members from other groups, other activists.

There are many, many ideas for how to help.

u/christmasvampire · 5 pointsr/exjw

I like NRSV (NOAB), NJPS (JSB), and NABRE. I recommend getting all three. In addition to being good translations, they contain lots of scholarly notes.

I just saw there's a new fifth edition of NOAB.

u/YouOnlyThinkUROut · 3 pointsr/exjw

Available now

[Crisis of Conscience: The story of the struggle between loyalty to God and loyalty to one's religion. - Kindle edition by Raymond Franz, Deborah Dykstra, David ...]

u/wingsup · 5 pointsr/exjw
You can find any of these books on Amazon.
Karen Armstrong A history of God.
I loved this book. "who wrote the bible, by Elliot Friedman
Spelling Edit

u/patlynnw · 2 pointsr/exjw

That Watchtower article is crap - you must always independently research Watchtower.

Here's the link to Amazon where the book can be ordered from:


Best of luck

u/exjw-ashkenazi · 5 pointsr/exjw

what your explaining about your ex is undue influence.

even though she’s been out of the cult for long time, this influence can still effect a person.

i recommend you read steven hassan’s book ‘combating cult mind control.’

Combating Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults

there’s a audio version too.

someone raised in a cult gets effected in a way that keeps the member in a prolong child like manner. cult members are kept in a parent (the cult) child (member) relationship. children continue to need there parent(s) to tell them what to do in many aspects of their life, weather small or large decisions. it can depend on the person.

it’s possible that her parents got to her and had her take her child from you. that speculation though.

either way, you need to learn more of this topic to better understand.

also, your ex needs to see a physiologist that has experience dealing with cults.

u/Balcacer · 3 pointsr/exjw

Biography of Raymond Franz


>In 1944 Franz graduated from Gilead, the group's school for training missionaries, and temporarily served the organization as a traveling representative in the continental United States until receiving a missionary assignment to Puerto Rico in 1946. Franz became a representative of Jehovah's Witnesses throughout the Caribbean, traveling to the Virgin Islands and the Dominican Republic, until at least 1957 when Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in the Dominican Republic by dictator Rafael Trujillo. At the age of 37, Franz married his wife, Cynthia, who joined him on missionary work. Both returned to the Dominican Republic in 1961 to evangelize for four more years and were then assigned to Watch Tower headquarters in Brooklyn, New York.


In his book, Crisis of Conscience, Franz talks about his days in the Dominican R, page 19 (Spanish edition):

> During a period of almost 5 years that we stayed in the country, we saw the fall of four different governments and in April 1965 we experimented a war in the surroundings of the capital (Santo Domingo) Translated by me.


Source of the Photo and Web Page ...Tribute to...

In Tribute to Cynthia and Raymond Franz

We want to ask the members of the Governing Body of the Jehovah's Witnesses:

> Why did you erase the work of Raymond Franz in his missionary work in the 2015 Yearbook?

> Why are you coping with Stalin's, Chairman Mao Ze Dong's ways to erase friends, comrades of struggle?


Stalin manipulated the science of photography to further his own political career and to erase the memory of his victims. In each case, the juxtaposition of original and doctored images reveals how easily history can be distorted.

More people erased by dictators:

Manipulators of China's history:

The Borg Manipulation to erase Franz work

In 1954, Trujillo traveled to Rome and signed a concordat with the Pope. Trujillo’s one-time confidant, Germán Ornes, wrote: “Since the Dominican Church is overwhelmingly pro-Trujillo, [it] has been a great source of support for ‘the Chief’ [Trujillo].

Jehovah’s loyal servants had to be courageous in the face of such violent opposition—and courageous they were! Even government officials recognized this. For example, on July 31, 1957, Luis Arzeno Colón, an inspector for the president, wrote to the secretary of state, lamenting: “Although the law recently proclaimed by the National Congress declares illegal the religious activity of the sect known as Jehovah’s Witnesses, the majority of its members continue in their steadfastness.”


Shortly thereafter, Secretary of Security Arturo Espaillat ordered the ten remaining missionaries to leave the country. On July 21, 1957, Roy Brandt wrote to Trujillo, requesting to meet with him to explain our situation.

Sorry GB, you can Stalinize the Memory of Cynthia and Raymond Franz, but they will always live in the hearts and minds of people in FREEDOM

u/kalleboll · 2 pointsr/exjw

Steven Hassan (who has created the BITE model) has several books about helping family members in high control groups. I think Freedom of Mind is the most resent.

Avoid being too confrontational about the JW beliefs. JW will teach that new converts might face persecution by the family members and that that will show them that the religion is the truth.

u/canadianjohnson · 2 pointsr/exjw

Steven Hassan recommends reading his newest book first, he said he learned a lot since his first book that you linked to. Both are great of course .

u/halemuri · 3 pointsr/exjw

Two translations that seem popular at /r/academicbiblical and that are also used by the Open Yale Bible courses, are NRSV (as NOAB) and NJPS (as the Jewish Study Bible). I use them as my primary two English translations. Before I got them I did some research about what translations were probably the most accurate and those were the winners.

u/Gonegirl27 · 3 pointsr/exjw

Show your therapist the pdf on this website to help them understand what being in, and subsequently leaving, a high control religion does to people. Bonnie Zieman was once a pioneer who left the org and became a therapist and it's her site.

Oh... I see she has a brand new book specifically for therapists called Cracking the Cult Code. I'm giddy with excitement!

u/BigGeorge12 · 4 pointsr/exjw

I always recommend the following:

It is not a polemic as many of the apostate sites can tend to be and Mr. Penton has solid academic qualifications. He is an apostate so it's not like you can introduce him as some outsider who happens to have written something about the JWs. But his intent is to evaluate the society and its claims with the rigour that is necessary to hold up to interrogation. He cites his sources, he presents a compelling argument and as an overall review of the society and its theology/eschatology it should be enough to shift almost anyone that is honestly evaluating the JWs.

u/alexei954 · 9 pointsr/exjw

Historian and ex-witness James Penton in his book Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of the Jehovah's witnesses had this to say about Knorr:

"Although possessing little if any ability as a writer, and certainly lacking the personal charisma of his predecessors, in many ways Knorr was a more able man than either."

Penton then describes Knorr's moves to de-emphasize the role of personalities in the WT, essentially by having all watchtower literature published anonymously. Continuing:

"Of course, there may have been another reason why Knorr wanted to develop this cult of de-personalization. Since he was unable to research and write the society's major publications, he knew that he would not be able to gain the prestige that both Russell and Rutherford had obtained as authors. So Nathan Knorr may very well have wanted to hide his own inadequacy by having practically all Watchtower material published anonymously."

u/pukesonyourshoes · 2 pointsr/exjw

Another therapist might be worth a try, perhaps one specialising in cult damage. In the meantime, this book is pretty great. Even cheaper in kindle edition. Where are you? Meeting with other ex-jws can be good too.

u/FadedGenes · 10 pointsr/exjw

Hmm... this is tricky.

The rule is: Never, ever date a JW, and never date an ex-JW unless they can say with confidence that they will never go back.

If she is still mentally attached to the cult, you (and she) are in for a world of pain.

You should read this book, and soon:

u/exjw- · 6 pointsr/exjw



Very excited. I never got to read this and I need to make a decision soon

u/matthewjumps · 1 pointr/exjw

A History of God - explains how the monotheistic cult of YHWH developed from polytheistic Jewish religions that included YHWH as a war god among a pantheon of other gods.

Evid3nc3 Video that elaborates on information in this book.

Honestly when I heard about this, Israels constant 'returning to false gods' in the old testament made so much more sense. I never understood, as a JW, why on earth the Israelites would keep going back to other gods, when according to the old testament YHWH so clearly demonstrated his superiority - but this makes it all clear.

u/LoveMankind · 2 pointsr/exjw

Crisis of Conscience: The story of the struggle between loyalty to God and loyalty to one's religion.

u/AngelOfLight · 3 pointsr/exjw

Dawkins - Greatest Show on Earth

Zimmer - At the Water's Edge

Stein - The Evolution Book

The last one is actually a high school level book, but it helped me a lot when I first ditched Christianity.

u/DornImFleisch · 2 pointsr/exjw

Take your time to detox from the indoctrination.

Regarding your wife: Only use questions here and there. Google for the Socratic method or watch videos from Peter Boghossian

I recommend this book:

u/SwordOfRighteousness · 4 pointsr/exjw

Sure is - Amazon link here (I'm presuming you're in the US) - it was written by a former member of the JWs' governing body.

u/FatFingerHelperBot · 2 pointsr/exjw

It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users.
I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click!

Here is link number 1 - Previous text "JSB"

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