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u/Dain42 · 1 pointr/gaymers

On the second point of it being a choice or not, I can't believe that nobody's yet mentioned the mountains of scientific data that exist on the topic. This doesn't work for every person who proffers the "choice objection", but if they have any respect for the scientific method, all of these are important. Plus, it's important for you to be literate in these matters. Hell, it's important for everyone to be literate in these (and similar) matters of science, in my opinion, since topics like genetics and epigenetics are coming up more and more in legal contexts.

Sorry if this gets a bit long. There is a wealth of material on this. Which in and of itself is an important thing to note: this has been the subject of a lot of study, and we have gleaned information from that study, even if we don't understand it fully.

In short, give this sort of information to your sister, and her dick of a doctor. Let him dismiss this as "your feelings".



The data are on the side of it being closely (but not exclusively) tied to genetic factors. They don't indicate that it is solely tied to these factors, but just a quick look at twin studies gives a pretty clear indication that there is a genetic factor to it (the rate of monozygotic twins who have the same orientation is far, far higher than the rate of any two PBAC (edit: particular but arbitrarily chosen, sorry, forgot that's not a common acronym) people from the population). The fact that the rate isn't approximately 100% is an indication that some other factor, epigenetic or environmental (which includes the prenatal environment), has some impact.


On the epigenetic front there are also studies which seem to indicate some correlation.


There are multiple studies that have found this to be a major factor as well. Their findings are commonly called the older brother effect:

> The fraternal birth order effect is the strongest known biodemographic predictor of sexual orientation. According to several studies, each older brother increases a man's odds of having a homosexual orientation by 28–48%. The fraternal birth order effect accounts for approximately one seventh of the prevalence of homosexuality in men. There seems to be no effect on sexual orientation in women, and no effect related to the number of older sisters.

If you want to read the studies (or at least reports on the studies—not sure how many of the actual studies are published beind paywalls) more in-depth, just check the sources on the Wiki article.


All of the above tend to fall into the area of what average people think of as "nature" when talking about "nurture vs. nature". As you can see, as usual, there's more than a bit of a grey area in between that choice that's presented as a binary. That's not to say that there is no room for any of the environmental factors we tend to think of as strictly "nurture", i.e., human interactions and early childhood development, but generally studies seem to indicate that after about three years of age, there is little to nothing that seems to have any effect on sexual orientation, and I think most people would have trouble arguing that a child of that age consciously chooses a sexual orientation.


There's a lot out there, but here are a few that I'd recommend on various fronts:

Virtually NormalAndrew Sullivan - A serious of four common cultural positions on homosexuality, then a fifth synthesis of them (Sullivan's personal view). Helpful for understanding the various arguments made.

What the Bible Really Says About HomosexualityDaniel A. Helminiak — A (semi) former Caholic Priest and multiple Ph.D.-holder discusses the pertinent verses in the book in cultural and linguistic context. A good book for religious parents, though it will probably hold more weight with mainline protestants and Catholics who generally don't go in for so-called "literal" readings of English Bibles.

Sex at Dawn — Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jethá — A mostly anthropological (as far as I know) investigation of human sexuality over history and prehistory. Not exclusively about homosexuality. I have not read this one yet, but I've heard the authors interviewed several times about it, and it seems like it would be worth it. It's on my to-read list.



Another frequent objection brought by those who use the objection of "it's a choice" is the "it's not natural" objection. I don't want to go too far into that, but to anyone paying attention, it's pretty clearly and definitively natural.

For more reading on the topic, see Evolution's Rainbow, which is basically a field guide to gay sex in the animal kingdom. It is a fairly thick book.




Well, I'm not going to be so self-important as to say you should read every word I've written (though I think you should read my sources). There is a cartoon that sums a lot of this up. This is taken from a longer film called For the Bible Tells Me So.

u/Chauncey_freak · 1 pointr/gaymers

>At this rate, I'll have finished the series by the beginning of next week.

Oh, my dear VOD, The Wire isn't a bag of popcorn - it is Christmas dinner, it is a fine wine or 30 year whiskey; it must be savoured. enjoyed. One cannot read the great works of Shakespeare or Shelley by the beginning of next week...

Actually, you probably could...

Let me know how Twin Peaks goes, i've been sneaking to parents house to steal internet, downloading True Blood and other stuff. I would like to know if i should give TP a go.

"Pull the other one, mate" is more an English phrase, perhaps cockney. Without AGloriuosCuppa to confirm, we can only speculate. "I'm only pulling your leg" is very Irish, meaning joking around.

I certainly didn't mean to shatter your enjoyment of Lee "suspiciously interesting openly gay teenage years in the bible-belt" Gould.

I'm actually reading a book right now, Farm Boys: Lives of Gay Men from the Rural Midwest - if you enjoy stories like Lee's, but are also true, i'll send you the book when i'm done :)

EDIT you probably meant you were gonna finish season 1 by end of next week? That is a perfectly good time period...

u/jexen · 2 pointsr/gaymers

I am not a scientist, I am a historian, however... if you would like to know some academic titles that go to the route of the problem I can suggest Coming Out Under Fire and Gay New York. Neither book is directly about the now debunked decision that homosexuality was a mental disorder but both make multiple references to it and Coming Out Under Fire is a book that deals with some of the immediate backlash of that not-so-scientific, scientific claim.

the short version of the history here though is that in 1952 it was put into the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders from the APA. This was a political move and a result of 60 years of cultural shift. What had happened since 1890 is really the birth of a gay identity. Until this time, people had discussed homosexuality in obscure medical contexts or works like Krafft-Ebing's work Psychopathia Sexualis with Especial Reference to the Antipathic Sexual Instinct: A Medico-Forensic Study (1886) which concluded that it was a degeneration and talked about it more like a fetish. Later in his life after more work on the subject he retracted that hypothesis. A bit later Havelock Ellis and John Symonds came along. Their work concluded that Homosexuality was definitely not a disease but instead variation of sexuality. Then in 1948 the first Kinsey Report came out in which he definitively stated "Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual." The findings of his research was that sexuality is a range, its not black and white. This was all well before the APA's ruling.

Shortly after the ruling the work of Evelyn Hooker, The Adjustment of the Male Overt Homosexual came out which determined that homosexuals could be perfectly well adjusted humans. The next Kinsey Report came out in 1953 and with that he once again concluded that sexuality was not black and white. According to him 37% of males and 13% of females had some sort of homosexual experience to orgasm in their lifetime. So to say somebody was exclusively heterosexual would be difficult.

Further supporting evidence of the political or social nature of the initial decision can be see in the APA's decision to remove it from their list of mental disorders. Stonewall has happened in 1969 and the entire gay liberation and gay rights movement has become very visible in media and in the public eye. Probably because of this, when the decision was made to remove it as an officially classified disorder it was also accompanied with a statement from the APA that supported the civil rights of homosexuals.

u/Jonnyg42 · 2 pointsr/gaymers

David Levithan is probably one of the most main-stream queer-themed writers out there now. His books, Nick and Norah's Infinite Playlist and Boy Meets Boy are some of his staple books. But these are clearly directed at a teen audience (which isn't a bad thing)

However, one of my favorites of his is The Lover's Dictionary which presents a love story that doesn't use gender pronouns, so you can interpret it to be any love you want. It is amazing.

u/wakuu · 1 pointr/gaymers

I commend you for putting your foot down. This book is kinda amazing. This book is kinda funny. This book is kinda deep.

u/jeffrartheplatypus · 1 pointr/gaymers

Last Night on Earth is an awesome zombie-movie style game with lots of different scenarios and its own soundtrack cd. It's a MUST for fans of classic horror movie really feels like you're in the midst of a zombie movie and after four or five years of playing it off and on it still hasn't gotten old for me.

Similarly, Betrayal at the House on the Hill is another awesome horror-themed game. In this one, you and your friends explore a haunted house, placing new rooms as you go, so the house is never the same way twice. Then, "the haunt"'s a randomly selected horror movie scenario that all of you must survive...except for one of you, who is assigned the role of traitor and must bring down the others.

If you liked Cards Against Humanity, I recommend Stupiduel as well, though it's a bit hard to find as it is out-of-print.

u/RecurvBow · 1 pointr/gaymers

I recommend reading The Gay Metropolis if you have some time. It gives a pretty good decade by decade accounting of Gay history from 1940 upward.

u/bearvivant · 5 pointsr/gaymers

>Chicano AKA radicalized Mexican American (whatever that means)

Here ya go, some links to educate yourself with-

Just because I own and am proud of my identity as a Chicano doesn't mean that I have to be okay with being fetishized for it. I would rather have a guy who likes my identity and not likes me for my identity. There's a difference.

Edit- typo

u/[deleted] · 6 pointsr/gaymers

I would like to offer a dissenting opinion about games to play and recommend some board games and card games.

Cards Against Humanity
Killer Bunnies
Or Stoner Fluxx which I just ordered about 5 minutes ago (No longer being made order while you can)
Or anything by the makers of Fluxx
Scotland yard is fun
And A game I haven't tried but will get soon, Last night on earth

u/Schulle86 · 2 pointsr/gaymers

If youre interested to get it as a gift for someone here you can grab it

u/tyriku · 1 pointr/gaymers

100 Rogues didn't require anything fancy. I tried using some AI algorithms that sounded cool, but if / elses served the design way better, once they were organized. If you're looking to learn how to turn the basics into larger projects, I'd read up on design patterns.

The bible:

90% of the heavy lifting in 100 Rogues is a combination of Command and Observer patterns from that book.

u/name_with_a_y · 3 pointsr/gaymers

I read this book about gay men in past decades. I recommend it for anyone interested in our histories.

u/bettowatchow · 1 pointr/gaymers

Though I have not read it yet myself, I have heard good things about Gay, Straight, and the Reason Why: The Science of Sexual Orientation. I'm not sure if a more scientific approach would help you or your sister but I would suggest checking it out. You can find a review here.

u/johnnystorm · 0 pointsr/gaymers

Seriously? You're not going to find the answer to that question here. It takes a lifetime, sweetie.

Take a page from my new book...

u/Saboran · 1 pointr/gaymers

Oh my god The Book Thief. That's my second favorite book ever, second to the current book that I'm rereading, East, by Edith Pattou.

u/Clownslayer · 3 pointsr/gaymers

Cryptonomicon is this awesome cyberpunk book I'm almost done with

u/iamelben · 1 pointr/gaymers

Ohai person whose story closely resembles my own. :D


u/NamelessAdventurer · 2 pointsr/gaymers

yup! Though, I totally lied about IDW being the publisher - they do put out some quality content between Metal Gear Solid, Shuan of the Dead, Doctor Who, and many others.