Reddit reviews Charlie Wilson's War: The Extraordinary Story of How the Wildest Man in Congress and a Rogue CIA Agent Changed the History of Our Times

Also George Crile's "Charlie Wilson's War" and Robert Baer's "Sleeping with the Devil", one of three books that formed the basis for Syriana.

Osama Bin Laden's relationship with the US is the primary reason behind September 11 conspiracy theories. The official record shows that no money ever flowed directly out of US coffers to Osama bin Laden, which might be true.

It'd be pretty fuckin' weird, though.

UBL was best buddies with Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, who we funded heavily. He's a cousin by marriage to Prince Bandar bin Sultan, who held an essentially cabinet-level post in the Reagan White House. He was a favorite son of the Bin Laden group, which is Saudi Arabia's Halliburton. And his primary activities in Afghanistan were recruitment videos and multimedia for Saudi Arabia in order to encourage young Arabs to join the jihad.

Considering who we were giving money to in Afghanistan, not giving money to Osama Bin Laden back in the '80s would have been a colossal oversight.

This is how conspiracy theories happen: hide a little, let public misperceptions fill in the blanks. It's a lot better for the CIA to have you believe in "loose change" than to have our heavy investments in Islamic fundamentalism join the public discourse.

Charlie Wilson's War. The book is good. Haven't seen the movie.

>were those from Central Asia or the Baltics conscripted or did they volunteer for service?

Both. Any conscript could volunteer to Afghanistan by submitting a letter expressing desire to serve in Afghanistan - not all were accepted. I'd estimate that <1% of 40A were volunteers and they were from all over USSR.

Conscripts from Baltics were often utilized as snipers or mechanics. Middle-Asian conscripts military quality (communication skills+technical education+elan) was low, with some very notable exceptions (SpetsNaz 'Muslim battalion' etc.). But Middle-Asians (~ -stan) outnumbered all other ethnic groups combined, with Slavic conscripts being close second and from Caucasus as third.

> did they serve in infantry roles or did Russian troops/officers tend to give them the dirty work?

They all served in every branch and service type, but Middle-Asians were often given menial jobs due to there low level of training and desire to stay away from fighting. Uzbeks were great cooks and often preferred kitchen to any other assignment. Tajiks and Turkmenis were more warlike.

>I believe I read that troops served 2 year tours; how was that like exactly?

Half-year basic training at Tashkent (usually, but not always), then 1.5 year deployment to Afghanistan. R&R (1-2 weeks) once or twice (rare) per deployment were usual, but not everyone got it.

>did they have any encounters with the locals or was that forbidden?

You cannot effectively 'forbid' any contacts with locals during war, esp. guerilla war. Formally, any interaction with locals must be sanctioned by officers and vetted by NDPA (i.e. Afghan regime) representatives.

>Outside of US intervention, could the Soviet troops have won the war?

Possible. Until ~1983, it was going that way. Then Charlie Wilson and Gulf states started to pump in money and weapons.
So the next big question would be whether Gulf state support would be enough for opposition to win or not. And without both US and Gulf state intervention - highly likely for DRA to succeed (even with hostile Pakistan and even without USSR troops).

Note that troops alone never win this kind of war. Once USSR found acceptable political solution (aka 'national reconciliation policy') - and it happened not to soon, in 1985, it was likely to succeed once hard-liners were removed from opposition - and they weren't - instead, kept receiving financial and materiel support.

EDIT:

Sources

1. А. А. Ляховский - Трагедия и доблесть Афгана Written by Major General Liakhovsky who served in Afghanistan as GenShtab's Chief Military Advisor and Liaison to Afghan's government. You can find some excerpts about initial phase of USSR intervention Afghanistan in English [here]https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/WP51_Web_Final.pdf). While excerpts cover only 'muslim battalion' actions in 1979, they'd give you an idea about author's verbosity.
   
   
2. Громов - Ограниченный Контингент. Memoirs of LtGen Boris Gromov (who was last 40^th Army Commander in Afghanistan). Specifically, Chapter Rout or Victory?
   
   
3. George Crile - Charlie Wilson's war A book, not a movie.
   
   
4. List of servicemen, awarded for their performance in Afghanistan, but who didn't get their awards Using it as a short-list, representing all servicemen. Complete list regular awards is too large.
   
   I am dumping raw data here - ask me for detailed explanations. These are just fast-plucked samples, there were many more asians and baltics awarded.
   
   Conscripts from Central Asia:
   
   right off the bat -
   
   1 ряд. Аббасов Акмал Акбарович механик-водитель в/ч п/51884. 1964г. Медаль "За боевые заслуги" N299 15.6.1990г.
   
   2 ряд. Абдракманов Элчибек Шаршанбаевич водитель в/ч п/п 13354. 1968г. Кир.ССР Тонский р-он,с.Ворошилова. Медаль "За боевые заслуги" N10198-XI 7.3.1989г.
   
   4 ряд. Абдувалиев Адхан Мухамедганиевич ст. мех. водитель п/п 82869 1967г. Андижанская обл,г. Пахтаабад, ул. пахтакор,205. Орден Красной Звезды N299 15.06.1990г.
   
   5 мл. с-т Абдужалилов Озодбек Абдурашидович зам. ком-ра взвода, ком-р отд. минометного взвода в/ч п/п 65753.84397. 1969г. Андижанская обл.Кургантепинский р-он,к-з Навои,21. Медаль "За отвагу" N10265-XI 4.4.1989г.
   
   6 ряд. Абдулаев Ахрход Абибуллаевич пулеметчик мтс роты мтс б-на. в/ч п/п 54676 1969г. Чимкентская обл. г.Туркестан Медаль "За боевые заслуги" N9512-XI 7.9.1988г.
   
   7 ряд. Абдулаев Рашид Садыков мех.-вод. в/ч пп 44585 1967г. Уз.ССР Фергенская обл. Ферганский р-н Садвин с/з ул.Механизаторов д.12 Медаль "За боевые заслуги" N8886-ХI 05.05.1988г.
   
   and till the end - dense list of Central Asian birthplaces and names:
   
   2050 ряд. Худайбердиев Аннам Джараевич разв. 66 ОМСБ 40ОА 1965 746030 Марийская обл. Байрам-Амитский р-н п.Захнет Медаль "За отвагу" 19.12.91. NУП-3061
   
   2051 ряд. Худайберенов Довлетмамед стрелок в/ч пп 34631 1963 Медаль "За боевые заслуги" 19.12.91. NУП-3061
   
   2052 ряд. Худайкулов Ахар Асатович пулеметчик мотостр. роты в/ч пп 54676 1967 Бухарская обл. Алтайский р-н к-з Ленина Медаль "За отвагу" 07.09.88. N9512-ХI
   
   2053 ряд. Худайкулов Гафур Саттарович наводчик в/ч пп 71176 1963 Медаль "За отвагу" 25.07.89. N268-I
   
   2054 ряд. Худайназаров Абдураззак Абдурахманович мех.-вод. в/ч пп 85615 1967 Уз.ССР Новаинская обл. г.Заравшан 4 мкр. 1 общ. кв.134 Медаль "За боевые заслуги" 07.09.88. N9512-ХI
   
   2056 ряд. Хуснутдинов Мирзаанвар Хайруллаевич водитель в/ч пп 93981 1961 г. Ташкент медаль "За отвагу" УП-2909 28.11.1991 г.
   
   
   Conscripts from Baltics:
   
   87 ряд. Кеиселис Гунар Зигисмундович разведчик-пулеметчик дес.-штурм. взв. развед. десант. роты в/ч пп 53336 в/ч пп 84397 1969г. Латвийская ССР, Алукенский р-он, Яуналуксенский с/с, х. Лучия Медаль "За боевые заслуги" N10491-XI 24.5.1989г.
   
   96 с-т Ашмонтас Зигмас Йонович водитель в/ч пп 21231 1966г. Лит. ССР, д. Гримзду Шилальского р-на Медаль "За отвагу" N10265-XI 4.4.1989г.
   
   97 мл. с-т Ашмонтас Роландас Йонович ком. отд. авт. взвода в/ч пп 38021 1968г. Лит.ССР, Шиляльский р-н, д.Гражюрис Медаль "За боевые заслуги" N569-I 4.10.1989г.
   
   251 ряд. Викси Индрек Эннович оператор ПТУР птв мсб в/ч пп 24785/84397 1968г. Эстонская ССР, Тартусский р-н, ул. Лия, д.4, кв.34 Медаль "За боевые заслуги" N10491-XI 24.05.1989г.
   
   626 ряд. Йонушас Эдмундас Винцович снайпер мср
   в/ч пп 86997 1967г Литовская ССР, Плунгенский р-н, д. Сталгос Медаль "За отвагу" N8886-XI 5.5 1988 г.
   
   627 ряд. Каблис Жидрунас Антанавич сапер в/ч пп 58082 1969г. Литовская ССР, Родвишинский он, д. Вайнюны Медаль "За боевые заслуги" N10265-XI 4.4.89
   
   849 ряд. Кудейка Янис Хенрикович ст. наводчик МСР МСБ в/ч пп 51883 1968г. Латвииская ССР, Даугавпилский р-он, п. Вице, ул. Комсомольская, д.11 Медаль "За отвагу" N 268-I 25.7.1989г.
   
   920 мл. с-т Лаупа Эдуард Лембитович наводчик-оператор разведоват. роты в/ч пп 24785, в/ч пп 84397 1968г. Эстонская ССР, ул. Герцена, д.28 кв.20 Медаль "За боевые заслуги" N10089-XI 1.2.1989г.
   
   2059 ряд. Цилишаускас Саулюс Альгевич водит. взв. обесп. мсб в/ч пп 51932-в/ч пп 51854 1968 Литовская ССР, Юрбарский р-он, ул. Новая д. 27 Орден Красной Звезды УКN 10089-XI 1.02.89

For a great example of Congress running foreign policy, see

Charlie Wilson's War(book), or

Charlie Wilson's War(movie)

Anyways, thanks for the links. If the Senate one passes (and it looks like it's been incorporated into the first House one already) it will be interesting to see what comes out of the increase in numbers of reporters in that area.

Lots of people saw it backfiring, but Rep Charlie Wilson had lots of clout in the CIA and Reagan White House and overrode those concerns ("I'm elected and you're not"). Source: My dad (deceased) who provided Reagan's daily defense intelligence briefings and corroborated in accounts in http://www.amazon.com/Charlie-Wilsons-War-Extraordinary-Congress/dp/0802143415

> Hillary Clinton has already admitted to the US helping create Al Qaeda.

Why is this important? Al-Qaeda's origin has been openly traced back to the U.S. training Afghans to fight the Soviets in the late 70's/80's, and certainly isn't some "secret" that was revealed by Clinton.

Look into Operation Cyclone or Charlie Wilson's War for more info.