Reddit reviews The Second Sex

Si vamos a hablar seriamente de feminismo, hay que partir por Simone de Beauvoir, el segundo sexo es la obra fundamental para entender la reivindicación feminista histórica

Este es light, pero es bueno para tener una perspectiva histórica

Este es más cercano a una revisión histórica académica. Se ha convertido en clásico en los últimos años

Este otro ayuda bastante a comprender la segunda ola, que es el core de la principal reivindicación de las manifestaciones de hoy en día

Y para una visión más local, la humanas tiene un par de cosas buenas

Además de lo que recomendó /u/Insania2014 que es good shit, especialmente Kirkwook.

No entraré en la crítica al feminismo (Camille Paglia tiene unos libros de ensayos buenos) o la tercera ola porque no he leido una obra que sintetise el fenómeno, así que no me voy a arriesgar.

You are of course entitled to your interpretation of feminism and your political opinions, but I must respectfully disagree.

I don't think feminism is the same thing as libertarianism, it is not about celebrating that women have the chance to make choices that subordinate women to men without any consideration for how patriarchy leads both men and women to find those choices expected, natural, inevitable and therefore (by way of sour grapes and sublimation) desirable. Its about problematizing inequality and gender based hierarchy and relationships of subordination whether they are on some level chosen or not.

Feminism requires that second level of analysis rather than subsuming all politics into the mantra of choice without consideration for how those choices impact society and are shaped by patriarchal ideology and social necessities.

The position that all choices are equally desirable and there can be no further inquiry into the political desirability of a relationship, regardless of power dynamics, as long as it can be understood as 'chosen' on some level, is not a feminist view of society. Thats a libertarian view of society.

I would encourage you (and other people following this thread) to read The Second Sex and The Feminine Mystique if you haven't already.

A Vindication of the Rights of Women by Mary Wollenstonecraft

The Poetry of Cai Wenji

Slouching Towards Bethlehem by Joan Didion

Oroonoko by Aphra Behn

Heroines by Kate Zambreno

Kindred by Octavia Butler

The Second Sex By Simone de Beauvoir

The Second Sex

>I didn't know continental vs analytical terms are outdated.

Dated perhaps isn't the right term, but just know that they do have certain limits.

As for post-WWII philosophy, there's a lot, but I'm going to let you know that much of it can't be well-understood without a basic understanding of Heidegger, much of whose thought was pre-WWII. His best known work is Being and Time, but it's one of the most challenging texts in the western canon. For an easier introduction to prep you for it, I'd recommend some of his early lecture material, such as The Hermeneutics of Facticity and The History of the Concept of Time. This could just be me, but I've found his lectures to be generally easier than his primary texts. If you want to trace the development of his thought, much of which was post-WWII, the Basic Writings anthology has a number of essays by him. While nothing really eclipsed Being and Time, much of his later thought is still studied. I'd say the most significant work of his later career was his Contributions to Philosophy, which took the form of briefer aphorisms and anecdotes, more similar to Nietzsche in style, but still grounded in much of his own thought and terminology.

If you want to move away from Heidegger, some of the big texts would be Gadamer's Truth and Method (Gadamer was a student of Heidegger's, so the former's thought is very deeply influenced by the latter), Sartre's two texts Being and Nothingness and Existentialism is a Humanism (note the similarity to Sartre's title with Heidegger's Being and Time, and also note that Heidegger would respond rather critically to Sartre's Existentialism with an essay in the Basic Writings), and Simone de Beauvoir's The Second Sex (a key feminist work heavily influenced by Sartre and Heidegger).

Beyond this my knowledge is a bit scattered, as I've only just completed undergrad. I really would recommend David West's text as a decent overview that will guide you in what the key texts are, as well as good secondary sources. I've not brought up Derrida, who was also huge, as well as Alain Badiou, Slavoj Zizek, Michel Foucault and Charles Taylor just to name a few. On top of those, there's a ton of pre-WWII stuff that's hugely important for understanding these thinkers, such as the ideas of Kant, Hegel, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Husserl, and the whole field of psychoanalysis (Freud, Jung and Lacan). Then there's postmodernism, postcolonialism, the various strands of feminism, and tons more. The more I type, the more I'm just reminding myself how little I know about this area (even though it's the area I'm most interested in).

Let me know if there's anything more you need to know or if you want to know a decent secondary source.

> Try reading the entire side bar including The Manipulated Man.

I have read that.

>Here, recommend me a book that describes your view, and I'll check it out too.

That's tough. I can recommend you a good primer on pre-2nd wave feminism, 2nd wave feminism, and critical theory. There's a long list of over 200 years of literature and articles that have gotten it to where it is today. Here's a few.

https://www.amazon.com/Second-Sex-Simone-Beauvoir/dp/030727778X - Excellent place to start.

It's likely in your local library.

After that...

https://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Politics-Kate-Millett/dp/023117425X

Another place to head to next. Controversial, most people have issue with some of things in here. There is no central authority, it's just lots of ideas and challenging yourself that's at the core of it.

https://www.amazon.com/Justice-Gender-Family-Susan-Moller/dp/0465037038

This is another good book to read on the subject after the first two. It's the first academic application of feminist theory to political theory.

That would set the groundwork.

As far as one that describes my view, not sure if I can do that, but that's cuz most people can't do that. I take ideas from multiple books/articles.

>I'll ask, If Feminism is about equality, why not simply fight for Egalitarianism?

Baggage is one reason. The term itself, egalitarianism, has a historical baggage associated with a pretty screwed up past.

Not only that, but feminism is about the advocacy of women's equality to that of men in areas where they are not equal. This is open to interpretation. If we are talking higher-level structural equality on a large scale, there is still much inequality. If we are talking about perceptions of women and stereotypes, there is much inequality. It's one way to look at it.

Also egalitarianism is not just about gender equality by definition, it deals with broader egalitarian concerns like social status, wealth, etc... It's all about catching flies appropriately. One issue at a time. Feminism is focused on gender inequalities, egalitarianism is focused on the total sum of all inequalities. Vast majority of feminists are egalitarian in regards to gender. They may not be in regards to economic status, they probably believe in free market capitalism for instance.

Also this seems like splitting hairs, what does it matter? I don't see many people rhetorically questioning why you call yourself red pill (haven't seen it, not saying they don't).

https://www.amazon.com/Second-Sex-Simone-Beauvoir/dp/030727778X

Well then you are either lying about your political leanings or your education about feminism comes from reddit.

Check out these books:

http://www.amazon.com/Second-Sex-Simone-Beauvoir/dp/030727778X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418317549&sr=8-1&keywords=the+second+sex

http://www.amazon.com/Beauty-Myth-Images-Against-Women/dp/0060512180/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418317639&sr=8-1&keywords=the+beauty+myth

There are plenty of others too but this feels like an ok pair of books, something old and something newer.