Reddit reviews Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus: Flavian Signature Edition

Here's a couple books you could start with your research. I know one is expensive, but it's a required book for some class so price is ridiculous. I found them at my library and also there are .pdf if you look.

Plato and the creation of the Hebrew Bible

Ceasar's Messiah

The Bible unearthed

Have fun, man.

I don't mean the origin stories. I mean if you can discover a historical trace of the creation of the religion itself...i.e. the writing of the New Testament, in the case of Christianity, and the motivations that lead to said creation + the distribution of that religious text throughout the people. If you can demonstrate that the religion itself was intentionally fabricated for some reason, you can disprove it, or at the very least weaken it (I suppose it's always possible for a believer to claim that "God made him think that in order to distribute His gospel and test our faith!" or something).

There is at least one attempt at this that I know of, in a book called Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus, but though I haven't read it, what I know about it seems to suggest that it is really just a theory right now, without strong enough evidence to prove it. Were there enough of a historical record to really prove the claims made in that book, though, I believe it would constitute "disproving" Christianity.

Excellent! I read Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus by Joseph Atwill a couple of years ago mostly for shits and giggles, and since I don't know much about the Bible I couldn't tell how true it was - but it made a lot more sense than any Christian explanation and it doesn't invoke the supernatural. I know Richard Carrier wrote about it saying it didn't make sense, but I haven't heard much other discussion.

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So I have two questions.

1. Is there any merit to the book at all? I tried asking the atheist communities at the time and nobody thought it was worth more than a slice of pizza.
   
   
2. Are there better secular explanations as to who wrote the Bible and...most importantly, why? What's the leading reason?

> Outlining his ideas in a blog posting on his website Mr Atwill writes: "Christianity may be considered a religion, but it was actually developed and used as a system of mind control to produce slaves that believed God decreed their slavery."

> Mr Atwill says that acts of insurrection by Jewish sects, who were awaiting the arrival of a so-called 'warrior Messiah' in Palestine, were a perpetual problem for the Roman Empire and that after the Empire had exhausted all traditional means of dealing with the problem they resorted to psychological warfare.

> "They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system," Atwill told PRWeb.com

> "That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented.

While Atwill does not get recognized or responded to by the Christian movements, he does put forth some strong points

https://www.amazon.com/Caesars-Messiah-Conspiracy-Flavian-Signature/dp/1461096405

https://www.amazon.com/Caesars-Messiah-Conspiracy-Flavian-Signature/dp/1461096405

Not suggesting it at all. I'm stating it as a fact.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Caesars-Messiah-Conspiracy-Flavian-Signature/dp/1461096405

Here is the link to the book.

Here is the link to the movie.

Enjoy! It's very thought provoking!

https://www.amazon.com/Caesars-Messiah-Conspiracy-Flavian-Signature/dp/1461096405

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/caesars-messiah-debunked-joseph-atwills-covert-messiah-refuted.7779947/

both sides of it

The thing about the resurrected Jesus is that there isn't any mention of it in writing until about 70 years after the supposed event. It would seem that it would have been well publicized throughout the world had it occurred- even if I happened in the backwaters of the Roman empire.

No, it seems the most logical explanation is that it was invented out of whole cloth by Flavious Josephus to help the Flavian emperor's rule over a diverse empire.

Even though his narrative and arguments are weak, I think Joseph Atwill's Caesar's Messiah is on to something.

http://www.amazon.com/Caesars-Messiah-Conspiracy-Flavian-Signature/dp/1461096405

Can confirm, atheist here who FUCKING LOVES CHRISTMAS. People have celebrated during that time of year before the Romans invented Jesus and they'll continue to celebrate long after humans are all too smart to fall for religion.

> To me the documentary and information on the flavius family of Rome is incredible. Does it require faith to believe that a Roman family concocted and created a religion to control all peoples?

Ew, no, don't buy into that bizarre theory. It has been debunked.

The origins of the Jewish religion[s] came from many different sources, & the belief in a "messiah" was most definitely not a Roman conspiracy. I followed that trail for a while, until the conspiracy theory aspect got too thick.

In fact, I don't know where you got the Roman conspiracy from my mention of Mark S. Smith. That Roman conspiracy theory was authored by Joseph Atwill:

https://www.amazon.com/Caesars-Messiah-Conspiracy-Flavian-Signature/dp/1461096405

I do NOT recommend Atwill's writings - unless you're looking for amusing conspiracy fiction.

The Romans liked to invent religions in order to control their subjects better. They got tired of Jews rebelling and warring so created one that taught to "turn the other cheek" and to "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's" It became so successful some people still follow it today.