Reddit reviews Norton 69936687444 Flattening Stone With Diagonal Grooves For Waterstones, Coarse Grit Silicon Carbide Abrasive, Superbly Flat With Hard Bond, Plastic Case, 9" x 3" x 3/4"

It depends on your budget, what you plan to be sharpening, and how much of a hobby you want to make out of your pet rocks.

If you will only ever want to sharpen your Fibrox, pretty much any water stone variety will be fine. If you plan on sharpening other things with harder or more heavily alloyed steels, you're not going to want the default King stones. They're okay, but they're a bit slow and even hearty tool steels give them trouble, to say nothing of harder kitchen knife steels. Names to google would include Imanishi, Suehiro, Shapton, Naniwa, and Gesshin. You might also consider diamond plate if you want to sharpen the deluxe PM steels out there, but they're honestly more a pocket knife thing.

The only accessories you certainly need are a dark marker for the sharpie trick and something to flatten the stones when they dish. The flattening tool can be a diamond plate, a silicon carbide stone, or even drywall screen. Diamond plates start around $40 and only go up, but they tend to work quickly and stay perfectly flat until you've ripped all the diamonds out. SiC fixing stones are cheaper and work about as well while drywall screen is the shockingly effective and cheap method. The other accessories go as deep as you want. Microscopes and loupes, slurry stones, strops, nagura, stone holders, sharpening ponds, on and on. I'd suggest you start small, maybe a stone holder at most, and try sharpening without much stuff. A lot of accessories are answer in search of problems; if you have that problem, by all means buy the solution, but as often as not they're unimportant. Don't buy anything that purports to help you hit or hold a certain angle. They are at best a short cut that will hurt your long term results.

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Here's what I would do in your shoes.

> So I've been using by 8" Fibrox for about a year now and it is in definite need of some TLC.

I translate this as, "My knife is dull as a potato." Unfortunately the common 1k and 4-6k combo stone is not the best solution here. I would use a coarse stone to start sharpening a properly dull knife and I have years of experience, so I see no reason you should hamstring yourself by jumping straight to a 1k. Is a coarse stone required? No. Will it help you establish good geometry so that you can get good eventual results? God yes. Plenty of people have spent an hour or more muddling through with a King 1k/6k on a dull knife and finished with a dull knife because they never establish good geometry. When the knife comes off your first stone, it ought to be sharp. Any further work you do just refines and smooths out the already sharp edge.

Beyond the coarse stone, you'll certainly want a middle grit stone. They're the lynchpin to a good progression and they're good stopping points in their own rights. This two stone solution might mean a combo stone like the Suehiro Cerax 280/1500 or King 250/1000, it might mean a Naniwa Traditional 220 and Bester 1200, it might mean a Shapton Glass 500 and 2000, or it might even mean a Naniwa Professional 400 and 1000 or Gesshin 400 and 2000.

I don't think a finishing stone is a necessary or even smart purchase for a new sharpener. While you're learning the additional complications of too many stones can distract you from refining the technique that will let you get a knife sharp using a brick. Pick one up later once you have a good idea what you like in a stone and fully know what the stone's going to do for you.

If I were to do it all again, I would just buy Naniwa Choseras or Gesshins from the start. Yes, they're expensive, but they feel better, they work faster and cleaner, and they cut most kitchen steels well. They are in no way more difficult to use than typical low cost "starter" stones, and with the better feedback and speedier cutting they make learning to sharpen easier.

>As a note, they all have an edge and just need honing.

Do you mean that they were properly sharpened and are just starting to dull? If so then I'll definitely second RVmaster's suggestion to look at a high-grit (10k+) finishing stone like the affordable "Chinese 12k" or a Naniwa 12k. A high-grit stone will put a nice polish on your edge and bring it back when it just starts to lose that keen feel. Alternatives would be to get a nice "barber's hone" or a strop treated with an abrasive, e.g. diamond paste or chromium oxide, but I personally prefer my 12k.


>what would be better for a first timer? Do I order the full-sized Norton 4K/8K and a flattening stone, or do I get the 3 "quarter" stone Norton bundle

I would definitely suggest the full size 4k/8k combo stone. I'm not a fan of them being quartered and couldn't imagine trying to sharpen on a hone that small.

Assuming you were looking at the Norton flattening stone, I'd encourage you to look at alternatives. Personally I love my DMT D8C (Amazon, SRD), which is a coarse diamond stone on metal. It's incredibly durable, will remain flat, and you could use it for sharpening tools or knives. The Norton flattening stone doesn't have a great track record: Amazon reviews and an SRP discussion. I doubt you'd ever have to use 220 on razors.

HI there,

Congrats! hope you like working with your knife. i've been sharpening my knives on whetstones for about 2 years now and here's a few things.

1. you do not need 3, 4, 5 or however many stones with increasing grits. seriously, don't spend 150 on some natural 10000 grit stone from japan (not just yet) as its just not super useful to you. I would recommend one maybe 2 stone and a strop. personally i like the king stones (1000 and 6000) because the bang for the buck is amazing, and a stone fixer You can look up strops, they come in all shapens and sizes and you can normally make one from stuff you already have, even newspaper (see below.)
   
   
2. find a place where you can sharpen every now and again. i ruined tables and counter tops before i realized that sludge that comes off stones is super abrasive and scratches stuff real easy. you can either make a sink bridge from a 2x4 and some screws or buy one. or, alternatively, just get a good stone holder if you are going to be on counters. find something that works for you.
   
   
3. one more thing before i go all knife nerd. watch some videos, Korin has a channel on youtube that's really good, carter cutlery is cost concious and has a great technique stroping on newspaper... and you can look up bob kramer but his stuff is way way more high end.
   
   
   anyways that's my two cents. i got a 15 qt sterite container for all my stuff including the bridge and i offer knife sharpening to friend just to practice on different knives.
   
   Cheers and good luck. I think its a really nice time once you get a handle on it.

For home use, this was recommended to me a starter set:

• Sharpening stone: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003JV3TEQ
  
  (This is a 400/1000 grit stone, which is probably great for initially dull home knives, but not optimal if you get really serious about knife sharpening. You'll want a higher-grit stone for that.)
  
  
• Flattening stone: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00067ZSJ0
  
  A good how-to video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTKV5-ZSWcE
  

Hey, here's some info on knife sharpening, as requested:

Firstly, I think the reason you struggle towards the tip with a guided system is that you have to reset the system to do the front of the knife. Basically treat the blade as if it were 2 parts, sort of a back half and front half. When you start, center the system on the back half of the blade and when you're done that section, recenter the system over the front half of the blade and do it separately. Just be sure not to grind more metal off of one half than the other. Count your strokes. There's probably a better way but I don't use guided systems often so my experience with them is extremely limited.

• Here's a crappy example I drew in paint
  
  I'm not sure what you use your knife for, so I can't recommend a sharpening angle. If you're batoning or chopping, you'd need a more shallow angle and "meatier" profile so the edge lasts longer. If you're trying to make it sharp enough to whittle (not just shave) hair, you'll need to have a steeper angle and a higher grit stone and will need to strop with polish after sharpening.
  
  
• bevel types/grinds
  
  
• bevel angles
  
  
  If you don't have any stones and need a cheapish one for basic sharpening that will last many many years. <- This stone will be more than enough to keep your knife sharp if you are hard on your knives and will need to resharpen often. I'd recommend anything from EZE Lap and DMT.
  
  If you want to try whet stones, the ones below are some decent ones. You will need a flattening stone like this one as well.
  
  
• 1000 grit
  
• 6000 grit
  
  This is a good source of basic information regarding sharpening knives using whet stones
  
  If you have stones but are unsure of technique. <-
  This is a good video describing the basics of keeping a knife sharp. Walter Sorrels is a good source of info with regards to knives in general.
  
  I wouldn't recommend stropping with polish until you know how to properly sharpen on a stone. I'd treat the two activities as completely separate entities until you get proficient at sharpening. Once you can put a decent edge on your knives, then you can research polishing. I only say this because it requires a different technique and a difference set of "tools" to accomplish. But you're a big boy/girl/Apache helicopter and can do what you want so here's a basic video on it anyway.
  
  
• stropping with polish
  
  If you have any questions feel free to ask, but not before making an effort to answer it through your own research. I always recommend doing your own personal research on any topic you feel passionately about. I'll try to help however I can though.

When using a flattening stone..take a pencil and draw a two lines from corner to corner in an X pattern across the face of the stone. Then soak your sharpening stones as you would normally. Mount the referencing stone on your stone holder and place the sharpening stone X side down. Hold the sharpening stone down with your full palm with your other palm down to create solid pressure on the full stone across as much of the surface as possible. Stroke in an X pattern - upper left to lower right corner a few times and then switch to upper right/lower left a few times. Rinse sharpening stone and see how much of the penciled X has been removed, when it's gone from the center of the stone (should be the most worn area) then you're done. Don't forget to periodically rinse the flattening stone occasionally during the process to keep it's grit open and available.

and a little more info:

I'm a whore for Shapton stones, loved the way they sharpened and their longevity. I preferred the Professional Series but according to Shapton the glass were supposed to last longer because you can use all the stone down to the glass, I didn't buy into that idea. https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Shapton-Professional-Series-Stones-P741C84.aspx

You need to buy one of these if you haven't already gotten one, specifically with the center support. Way better than using a wet towel on the edge of the sink. https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-71013-Sharpening-Holder-2-Inch/dp/B00NFB2MTI

Link to Norton Flattening Stone: https://www.amazon.com/Norton-Flattening-Stone-Waterstones-plastic/dp/B00067ZSJ0/ref=sr_1_6?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1505326146&sr=1-6&keywords=flattening+stone

Shapton has their own lapping/referencing plate but it's $500: https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Shapton-Diamond-Reference-Lapping-Plate-P516C84.aspx
Link to Dick Polish (yes, that's really what's printed on the handle) https://www.knifemerchant.com/product.asp?productID=1393

And find a Sally's Beauty Supply Near you and get one of these bottles. Small enough that when filled it's not too heavy to wield and good for adding water to your stones during sharpening: http://www.sallybeauty.com/sheer-mist-trigger-sprayer/SBS-292048,default,pd.html?list=Search_Results#q=spray+bottle&start=1

Something like this should do the trick.

If you are getting a traditional knife then consider also budgeting for a few types of whetstones. Learning how to use them and caring for a high carbon steel knife is part of the art and tradition.

I have these stones:

Seido 600/1000

Seido 3000/8000

Leather Strop (because it's a handy way to hone)

Flatening Stone (to level the whetstones after they show wear)

Video on Sharpening a Single Bevel Knife

Post your knife choice, once you buy it. Good luck!

The dirty stones NEED to be clean, if its white, it needs to be white or as close as you can get it. That kind of dirtiness from metal shaving and cross grit contamination makes the finer grits absolutely useless. Then you can visibly see the unevenness and where it dips, even a little bit makes sharping difficult if not impossible.

First you need to start to clean it up- I would start with boiling in a light degreaser solution for a couple hours. Your mostly removing any oils that were used and if your lucky it any gummed up debree will go along with it. This will allow you use water to cut, which you should unless stated otherwise, however many people use oil because they think its better and what they forget it makes stones difficult to clean.


Then if you need to still clean it up, grab a scoring pad any can detergent powder; Ajax or comet are probably easy to find, and I've heard Bar Keepers Friend does an outstanding job. Wear some gloves(maybe eye protection) grab a bucket and some water and start scrubbing. The oxalic acid in BKF will break down the left over metal shavings leaving you with a clean stone.


Now the first thing you do before using any stone is lap it. ALL stones need to be flattened even if they were new or used. Grab a sharpie and draw an "X" and "+" across the tops of the stone. Now THE cheapest way is find a cinder block and grab lots of water and make a figure 8 patter until ALL the lines are gone. You will see the high points disappear and the dips stay there. Make it all go away together. If you don't have a cinder block laying around you could buy a cheap lapping stone made to do just this.

Now your stones are ready to use and you will probably figure out which grit is which by then too, because our guess is as good as yours. but judging by use, they are already in order from rough to fine. The low grit is probably the first one, its too high for regular use and mostly repair, The mid grit gives you a nice sharp edge and every blade is going to at least get this edge. The fine grit gets used but not as much, it takes just that much more time to sharpen and some knifes and people aren't worth the extra effort.

King's generic 1000/3000 dual stone is a great buy for the price. I had one that lasted for years before it was too dished/clogged to put an edge on anything. Then I needed a flattening stone to bring it back to fighting condition.

Though, if you have the spare cash, Kramer's waterstone set is amazing. You can get a very good edge with the King stones, but that Kramer set has a very different feel.

Also, you'll want a nagura (if you don't get the Kramer set that comes with one). A lot of the king stones offered on Amazon come with one. It's used to clean/condition the stone, flatten out smaller imperfections (over the heavy cleaning stone above), and make a slurry to really polish on your high grit stones.

Also Also, one shout out to Upon Leather on Amazon. I picked up a strop from them that is very good quality leather, with more polishing compound than I will ever need, and a no-shit handwritten thank you note in the box. Just need to mount it to a piece of scrap wood and you're good to go.

For kitchen knives, especially big ones, I think freehand sharpening on stones is the way to go. You have three choices: Diamond plates, Japanese water stones, and Arkansas oil stones.

Arkansas stones are the things your grandpa used, and they are truly BIFL. Treat them right and they'll last forever. A set like this would be excellent, although the particular brand probably doesn't matter very much. They're all natural stones and whatever variation exists will be between batches as much as between brands. Do make sure you get standard 8"x3" stones, though - smaller ones will be frustrating.

Japanese stones are not really BIFL because they're consumable, although they still last an awfully long time. As they wear down they expose fresh grit and in return, tend to sharpen way faster than Arkansas stones. Brand matters a bit more here - Norton, Naniwa, and King are frequently recommended, King being the least expensive. I have a King 1000/6000 grit combo stone, and it's great, although I wish I'd gone for the 800/4000 set instead. To get the best life and performance out of a water stone, you'll need to occasionally flatten it with another stone designed for the purpose.

Diamond sharpeners are the new hotness. They cut faster than Arkansas and last longer than water stones. Unknown brands are likely to have the grit fall off, so buy DMT Dia-Sharp. I don't own these and can't tell you what specific grits you want, unfortunately.

Just to add to this, if OP goes the route of getting a whetstone to sharpen, I would also recommend a flattening stone. After a couple runs on the whetstone you'll end up with divots and grooves in the stone, which can make future sharpening pretty miserable if your stone isn't perfectly flat. (found this out the hard way after damaging one of my straight razors by plowing the finished edge into a divot) Using the flattening stone will ensure a perfectly flat working surface and give you the best edge.


I use this one and it works well, though I'm sure there are other good options available.

Would this be alright for flattening? Or is a diamond plate the best option for stone flattening?

I noticed the flattening stone I considered getting does carry a prop 65 warning. http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Flattening-Stone-Waterstones-plastic/dp/B00067ZSJ0/

that stone says it's for waterstones, not oilstones. I dont' know if that's significant.

Then you flatten it. You can use water and a patio stone, or one of these, or the sandpaper and glass method mentioned by the other poster.

My razor is still sharp enough to shave with, I just can't get a very comfortable or close shave. I have had it professionally honed, but i'm looking for my own set-up. Will these stones get my razor back to tip-top condition, or does anyone have any better suggestions?

I believe I will also be needing a flattening stone, is this a good choice?
http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Flattening-Stone-Waterstones-plastic/dp/B00067ZSJ0/ref=pd_sbs_indust_6

Are there any other things I need to get started honing my own razor? Thanks in advance for the help!

250-1000 combo

I would go with this. my 1000 grit stone is my main stone for re-sharpening. For edge-nick repair or re-profiling an edge's geometry I start on my 400 or 220 stone. I don't even crack out my 1000+ stones unless I'm doing something fancy.

Also, get yourself a truing stone. It's important with water stones because they wear and dish out quickly. (It's in their nature to do so, it's why they cut faster than oil stones.) I have something like this because it's easy to use.

You could also use wet-dry sand paper or a flat piece of cement or something but that's a lot less convenient. You will be lapping a lot. To keep mine flat I lap as needed which usually amounts to about 20% of the time I spend using that stone.

I find a good stropping with green buffing compound makes a huge difference to the final "glide" of the edge.