Reddit reviews Norton Abrasives 87943 Waterstone Starter Kit; 220/1000 and 4000/8000 Combination Grits, Coarse Grit Flattening Stone, Instructional DVD, 8" x 3" x 1"

>Is there any practical difference between DE and straight razor shaving as far as cost involved, difficulty in shaving, or maintenance?

Yes, yes and yes.

Lets break it down individually

Cost

Upfront costs

DE: A good DE and a blade sampler will run you about 50$, if you want to spend more you can get some better quality stuff.

SR: A good brand new SR will generally run you at least 70$, a strop will be another 20ish

Both DE's and SR's can be found used from ebay or several other sites for a lot cheaper. E.g WhippedDog's sight unseen razors

Maintenance costs:

DE: DE's are usually very durable and require very little maintenance, just rinse it off well after shaves and take it apart every now and again for a good wash. The main cost will be with blades. The blade mileage and type will vary based on the person shaving. Some use one blade one time and then discard it, others get a 3-5 good shaves from a single blade. So YMMV, generally 100 blades will run you for 10-30$ depending on the blades.

SR: A straight razor needs to be stropped, hence why I incorporated the strop into the upfront costs. Now your SR will also need to be honed and sharpened a few times a year, how often you need to sharpen it really depends on how much you use it and how good care you take of it. When sharpening you ahve two choices; you either learn to do it yourself or you send it to a pro.

Professional sharpening will generally cost you anywhere from 20-50$. But you can also do it yourself, a set of whetstones will cost you about 100-150$ for the cheaper ones like this set. You can also get a cheaper deal from WhippedDog. There are tons of other waterstones around, if you want to improve your own results, jsut do some research.

Now the nice thing about sharpening your own SR, you're now set for life. That one SR and your whetstones will probably be enough to shave yourself for the rest of your life and then some.

Conclusion:

If you're willing to spend more money upfront for an SR, strop and stones, which can run you for about 200-300$, you will save money in the long run, since you never need to buy more blades again nor send your SR to get sharpened. This also means that you have to put in effort to learn to sharpen your SR. If you don't want to do it, and send you SR to a pro a few times a year, then a DE will probably be cheaper.

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One more thing about cost, if you're planning on switching, I highly recommend getting a full set. That includes a brush, cream/soap, alum and after shave. Check the kit suggestions on the sidebar for more info.

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difficulty in shaving

The straight razor is often considered the most difficult shaving tool to use. You can literally kill yourself with it if you mess up really badly. This is because there is nothing protecting the blade, if it's in the wrong angle; it'll slice your skin. This is also the biggest strength of the Straight Edge, you have complete control over the blade.

The double edge was created to make shaving a more safe practice, hence why it's also called the safety razor. At worst you'll end up with small nick and shallow cuts. You will not have as much control over the blade as you do with an SR but you will still be able to get superb shaves.

I'd say the SR is more difficult to master, but also much more satisfying, at least in my opinion. Regardless of which you use, you will have to relearn shaving from the start. So don't be scared of a few nicks.

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>What kind of recurring costs am I going to deal with, as compared to disposable razors?

Well, this depends on what disposable razor you are using. So for the sake of comparison let's talk about the newest Gilette Fusion proglide. On Amazon 8 Proglide blades will cost you about 30$. Now some sources say that gilette cartridges will last up to 5 weeks, a year has about 52 weeks so by this standard you need 11 cartridges per year.

Going by the amazon cost of 3.62$ per cartridge, you're spending about 39,82$ a year for blades. Again, your mileage may vary. Only you know how long your cartridges last.

Now lets talk about a DE blades. According to Badger and Blade the average is 3 shaves per blade with a 3 pass shave. Now for the sake of keeping things simple; lets assume that you shave once per day and do 3 passes. So a DE blade will last you for 3 days.

EDIT: In case you're not familiar with the idea of multiple pass shaves, it basically means that instead of shaving once like you'd do with a cartridge you shave once, relather, shave again, relather and then shave a third time. The idea is to slowly cut down the hair rather than taking it all off with a single shave. Multiple passes often result in a better shave but also takes much longer and wears down the blade faster. A blade that lasts for three three pass shaves, is basically nine single pass shaves or 4-5 two pass shaves. So depending on how good of a result you want, your blades may last longer. If you're fine with a single pass shave, then you can easily go a week with a single blade., which cuts down the costs considerably. END OF EDIT.

Now Here's 100 feather blades. Feathers are generally considered to be some of the best and sharpest DE blades on the market. Seeing that the price is 22,80$ we can easily count that singe blade costs 0,228$.

364 days of shaving requires you about 122 blades, which at that price comes down to 27,82$~ per year for blades. So that's 12$~ cheaper per year.

The nice thing about DE blades though, they're all interchangeable. Wanna go cheap? 200 Derby blades 18,97$. Comes to about 0,095$/blade, which brings our yearly cost to 11,6$.

However, your mileage may vary.

I would say that 1000/6000 would be a bit low-grit for just maintaining a blade. I generally only use my 1000 stone for setting an edge. That stone also looks mighty cheap and I'm not sure what to make of that.

Norton split stones are often recomended and I'll have to agree. I would highly recomend getting the 4000/8000 for maintaining your blade; even though it's a little out of your given budget it's worth the investment and will last you a very long time. Unless you do anythnig bad like roll the edge or chip it you won't need anything more than that. If you do want/need to get into restoration the 200/1000 is really nice (Here's a kit with both stones and a flattening stone [though you can make your own with sandpaper it's not recomended unless you know what you're doing]).

The Pyramid honing guide should work for you regardless of what stones you end up buying and I'd very much recomend it as a technique guide.

That's the 220/1000 grit stone. It's the first of the stones in the three stone starter kit.

>I was looking for advice on what type of sharpening stones I should get?

Water stones or oil stones. Your choice. It's a completely personal preference and you really can't go wrong either way.

>Can I sharpen tools like a chisel, plane blade, cabinet scraper with the same set of stones?

Yep. Although cabinet scrapers I've never seen stones used. Just a flat block w/ sandpaper and a burnishing rod.

>Is it recommended to get a honing guide?

Depends on what you're sharpening. Honing guides help tremendously with chisels or any flat blade plane. They're not so useful on cambered blades.

>I'd appreciate a few suggestions. Thanks!

As an "all in 1 starter kit," Norton makes a great water stone kit that includes 220/1000/4000/8000 grit stones and a SiC flattening stone. Some people here and on lumberjocks swear by the "scary sharp" sharpening system, which is nothing more than varying grit sandpaper, some 3M spray adhesive, and a flat surface like a glass pane.

I can't say what type or brand the guy in the video is using, however good waterstones that get the job done are not that expensive. I have been sharpening chisels on this for a year now, and have only had to re flatten it once. Still has a couple good years in it too

The Narex Premium chisels are often recommended on this sub as one of the best bang-per-buck sets available. They are in your pricerange. https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/narex-premium-bench-chisel-set-wooden-box.aspx

I personally got the 4-piece set here: https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/narex-premium-chisel-set-4.aspx and haven't found myself wanting for more.

I will note they are going to also require some sharpening stuff -- and that might end up costing you just as much as the chisels themselves. I picked up this set (https://www.amazon.com/Norton-Waterstone-Starter-Kit-flattening/dp/B000XK0FMU) and have been happy with it... though I wish I would have gotten a diamond stone for the coarse stuff (the narex chisels have good, hard, steel but take a bit of lapping to get that back flat...)

I think jpedlow is probably referring to these.

I have been using this Norton starter set that includes a 200/1000 grit stone and 4000/8000 grit stone for a couple of years now and they've been quite serviceable. The instructional DVD is more geared towards sharpening woodworking tools but it's interesting nonetheless.

I bought a set of norton water stones from amazon and have been very happy with them, they call it a starter kit but it comes with all you need for planes and chisels... was under 140 bucks http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Waterstone-Starter-Kit-flattening/dp/B000XK0FMU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395702676&sr=8-1&keywords=norton+waterstone

Sharpening is done with stones

Honing is done with a steel

Power random orbit sander, chisels, caliper, marking gauge, clamps.

Or if you want to blow the whole budget: something to sharpen tools with. Preferably <320 grit, 1000grit, and maybe 8000. Something like this (surely you can find it a little cheaper): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000XK0FMU?keywords=norton%20sharpening%20stone&qid=1448991757&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2

Get your girlfriend a petty knife. Shit I use one a lot when I'm at home. If I'm butterflying 2 chicken breasts, Peeling/deveining some shrimp, fast things, I'll reach for my 5'' petty knife or 6'' global. Small and agile, with better ergonomics than chopping with a pairing knife.


Duuuuuuuude. Don't think of spending ANYWHERE near that much on sharpening stuff as a novice. Sharpening is a difficult skill that takes thousands of hours to really master, lots of practice and frustrating moments. Start out with your whole set up costing ~$100 and see if you even like it. Its a full blown hobby as well as something handy to know. I as a professional chef, after sharpening knives for hundreds of hours probably, still take my knives to a professional once a year to really get them good and perfect. I'm proficient not perfect. I can maintain an edge that a professional set perfectly, to a point which can shave your face, but I can't take a knife thats been scraped on bricks and a 200 grit stone intentionally to destroy an edge, and put a perfect 14 degree angle. I'd recommend water stones because they don't require messy oil. just a soak in water and a spray bottle, or work near a sink.

You need a couple things to sharpen. Get a few cheap rags together, Get a bin you can soak water stones in get a sink mount and get a few stones

$16 Sink Mount

$149 Stone set this is the one I got and learned on. It's been great so far, its expensive right now but I found the same exact set for $99.00 when I bought it a few years back.
$12 Strop Not needed but it takes your knives to the next level

This all being said. Everyone has an opinion on whats best to start with. This is the path I took and I've never been upset with my purchases :)

Thanks for some great advice and thread link! A couple quick questions.

Why would an Arkansas and Indina stone be hard on my Manix? The stone(s) I get, I'd prefer to be able to use on my Manix as well, once i get the hang of things.

Looking online I found that waterstones and whetstones are the same things with a different name, can you confirm?

So far I'm looking at this, but I really don't know what im looking for quite yet and hope to do more research before purchasing.

As a general rule, I'd prefer to spend a bit more for better quality and longevity. I also would highly prefer to use water over oil.

I use a Norton Water stone, actual Japanese water stones are expensive. If your on a budget I wouldn't hesitate for a minute; I use mine on straight razors, my CRKT M16-14t (AUS 8) and all of my JA Henckels Kitchen Knives. I also use a strop block on everything to get a hair splitting edge. http://www.knivesplus.com/KP-STROP8-STROPBLOCK.html
http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Waterstone-Starter-Kit-flattening/dp/B000XK0FMU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416769938&sr=8-1&keywords=Norton+stones

This is why I love /r/woodworking (one of many reasons). I had my mind set on the Norton starter kit based on some earlier advice on a thread here. I was chatting with some other folks who talked up the Worksharp system and got interested. Hearing both that I'll get stones anyways and that they'll be useful long term even if I go with a machined route someday is helpful.

Here's what I'm planning on instead of the Worksharp system.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000XK0FMU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

You'll need to get at a minimum 2 combination stones. If you're on a budget, I would suggest this: http://www.whippeddog.com/products/view/norton-hone-set-a0727p. It is 1/2 of both a Norton 220/1000 and 4000/8000 stone and 1/2 of a flattening stone. The price is about 1/2 of what you would pay if you bought full stones, and obviously, a full stone will be easier to use. If you want to go that route, you can buy this product: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000XK0FMU. On top of this, you will probably want to get a linen or balsa strop and a leather strop with the chromium oxide mentioned by wags_02

I was going by this particular honing stone

Whipped Dog sells a variation of this
http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Waterstone-Starter-Kit-flattening/dp/B000XK0FMU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1369261382&sr=8-3&keywords=honing+stone+for+straight+razor

Is it any good?

I recommend that you spend the extra $34 and get the following setup.

http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Waterstone-Starter-Kit-flattening/dp/B000XK0FMU/ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1448929859&sr=1-3&keywords=waterstone

On a honing guide like this one.

http://www.amazon.com/Rockler-Honing-Guide/dp/B001DSXGM2/ref=sr_1_6?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1448929972&sr=1-6&keywords=honing+guide

You need to check to make sure that the distances on the packaging really gives you the proper angle. In the end I purchased a Vertitas guide

get the norton waterstone starter kit. has everything you need to keep them like razors. also throw the chef's choice against the wall in a fit of rage. it's probably the worst possible thing you could use on your knives.

Yes, double down and go for the larger size. You won't regret it. This is what I found to be a great set. I still have, and use these stones. They're fast cutting and quick to flatten.
http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Waterstone-Starter-Kit-flattening/dp/B000XK0FMU

I've shaved off some leg hair with a chisel, but i guess my face would be much more sensitive. Also, if diamond plates aren't good enough, it seems I have some time to wait before I can start sharpening my own razors (not to say I cant get them sharpened). I'm only 17, so I dont have too much cash for a good sharpening system, so I'll probably stick to safety razors until i have the cash. Would a good start be to get [this] (http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Waterstone-Starter-Kit-flattening/dp/B000XK0FMU/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1420245448&sr=8-14&keywords=straight+razor+sharpening), a 12000 grit stone, and a strop once i get some cash?

I no one here has any to sell, these might be a good option.