Reddit reviews Meditations on Violence: A Comparison of Martial Arts Training and Real World Violence
We found 33 Reddit comments about Meditations on Violence: A Comparison of Martial Arts Training and Real World Violence. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
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Dude, a guy a hundred pounds heavier than you punches you and falls down? Nike-jitsu is better than Jujitsu. Get the fuck outta there.
There's no need to prove how big your pee-pee is. You said yourself, be careful who you surround yourself with. While you are putting on a BJJ clinic, some asshole can come kick you in the head for beating up his buddy.
BJJ is great, but having a good head on your shoulders is even better. Having good BJJ AND common sense is best.
Glad things came out OK. Look into reading Rory Miller's Meditations On Violence. It'll give you some self defense perspective. Keep on training.
Hi there,
So I saw some of your posts earlier, and as a quick aside to the question, I'm gonna recommend the book Meditations on Violence by Rory Miller. In it the author talks about his experiences working in corrections as the violence team expert, and what he talks about here is the psychological side of violence as well as the biochemical reaction we have when going from a nothing situation to a violent one. I like this book a lot for taiji people as this is the type of scenario where taiji training really shines, such as using touch sensitivity and relaxed vision to orient yourself faster than most people, breaking through that immediate mental freeze where people loop one movement over and over to try and get it to work, having your reactions be instantly available to you without needing to set anything up, non-technique specific movement efficiency to be able to apply movement changes/pivots/reactions from any part of the body you make contact with, etc. Training in this way is what I consider successful taiji training for me.
That said, I also do the more wrestling looking stuff on the side, along with a bit of shuai jiao, and it's def fun. I also watched that chin na video you recommended and I really enjoyed it, cause like chin na is def the kinda stuff you can geek out about :). One thing that was pretty quickly transferable to my wrasslin is William CC Chen's focus on the fingers. Basically he argues to focus a lot of your intent on the fingers themselves, with the middle finger, pointer, and thumb (the "claw") being the yang side and the pinky and ring finger being the yin side. The yang side's job is to press into the opponent on a spiral, like in wu style brush knee, and the yin side's job is to curl in and around, like in wu style gets into hook hands. (This curling is also found in bagua's teacup exercise). That all sounds complex but it's pretty simple actually, just put your mind/focus on your fingers and make small little spirals, switching between the two as needed. I've found this is a quick and effective little focusing tool to worm your arms into good positions, sneak out of bad ones, and catch locks and throws. Try it out!
If you've ever read Meditations on Violence, it talks about the genetic, instinctual reaction we humans have to social violence: you puff up your chest, get way too close to the the other guy, talk trash to each other, then someone throws a wild swing. (although in this case they skipped to the punch.) In the book he talks about trained martial artists falling into this pattern because they can't help it... a million years of evolution overriding their training.
I don't know if there's any science to back that up but it makes sense. We've all seen this scenario a hundred times in bars with young men fighting.
Here's an excellent book on this topic - Meditations on Violence: A Comparison of Martial Arts Training & Real World Violence
The best self defense is good situational awareness, avoiding potentially bad situations, and getting away. Multiple attackers? Weapons? Those are invitations to a track meet. Avoid, deescalate, and get out. If you have to fight, just do enough to GET AWAY.
I've done martial arts for 20 years, and I'd do the above in a bad situation. As far as styles do, /u/Poseiden20's advice is good... boxing, MT, judo, BJJ... all good stuff. But treat it in context of the above. Get away, stay safe.
The best book I've ever read on self defense and martial arts is Rory Miller's Meditations on Violence. Read it if you're interested in more on this topic.
edit: not to discount the idea of going to a seminar! If you get a good day-lesson that can help you get away, then that's GREAT. Just keep it in context. The smart fighter is looking to stay safe, not to win a fight.
In no particular order:
The Gift of Fear
Meditations on Violence
Facing Violence
Verbal Judo
Surviving Armed Assaults
On Combat
The Little Black Book of Violence
Street E & E
I could probably come up with 10 more if I looked through my library.
Whichever system you decide on, the tactics in these books will be important. Reading them before choosing a school will help you know what to look for. Sadly, some self-defense school will teach things that are either not practical, or will have devastating legal consequences for you (like how to take a knife away from someone, then use it on them).
Check out Meditations on Violence by Rory Miller. It was suggested by my Krav instructor and I've enjoyed reading it.
About two hours before class try eating a bowl oatmeal if you have any problems with energy.
You might be interested in the book "Meditations on Violence" by Rory Miller. It's short and very to the point. Miller is a lifelong martial artist and high security prison guard who's been involved in a lot of real life violence. It's an interesting perspective. He does give advice about how to handle different forms of violence and how to de-escalate what he calls the 'monkey dance', wherein (usually) guys start to up the aggression back and forth until violence erupts.
This is what Sgt. Rory Miller terms "The Monkey Dance".
p.s. I'm only halfway through the book, but I highly, highly recommend reading Meditations on Violence, a book by the aforementioned Miller. Miller clearly has had both a lot of training and a lot of experience with violence in his years as a corrections officer, and his observations on the different causes and forms of violence, the effect of violence on the body (adrenaline dump, etc.), and the implications for a trained fighter are fascinating.
Anything close to a real fight or sparring, I feel calm and focused, but good lord would I feel anxious in any kind of arena with a large audience.
Depending on the situation in a more real-world scenario, I either go fight or freeze. The potentially violent situations I've come across don't tend to trigger a huge amount of fear, not because I'm brave or anything, just because (a) I've never been in any very serious violent situations, and (b) I think I've spent too long thinking about fighting as a point of interest that it doesn't really initially occur to me emotionally that getting into a fight would be bad. I generally associate it positively.
I've come close to being mugged twice. I know that's a strange thing to claim, but once I was cutting through this dark and foggy park and saw someone on my left start approaching me in a suspicious manner, while someone else walked toward me from my right and a little behind me, both speed walking. There was no one else in the park. The second time was in a parking lot, but it was years ago and I've forgotten the details. The guy approached me, dead of night, completely empty parking lot, started asking me weird questions, seemed kind of nervous. Admittedly, I might have been just being paranoid in these situations, but I definitely have my suspicions. I've broken up a couple fights too. I've been fortunate enough to escape any real encounters so far.
In my experience though, instructors don't really address the topic of violence very well, myself included. I can't really recommend Rory Miller's book, Meditations on Violence strongly enough for anyone interested in the topic of violence and strategies for dealing with it. I would put in the caveat, as he has, that of course there are many different kinds of violence (domestic, military, etc.) that each need to be addressed with a unique view, but I'm not sure how else to phrase my recommendation here. Anyway, this should be required reading for anyone pursuing martial arts in any discipline, in my opinion. Anything I had to say on this topic outside of my personal experiences would likely just be a reworking of what I've read here.
Body Trauma Writers Wounds Injuries I just found this after a quick google search. Also Michael Janich wrote a book with a bunch of compiled case studies of knife assaults and the wounds that the participants suffered which is right along your subject matter. I just don't remember which title covers it, it might be Contemporary Knife Fighting.
Also the best book I have ever read concerning fighting is Meditations On Violenceby Rory Miller. If you want to increase your understanding of pain, wounds, and the overall nature and structure of real fights look no further.
Good Luck
I second this. In my training it was part of our required reading, and for promotion we were given written tests based on their content.
Additionally, while it's not specific to Kenpo, I (and every instructor I've ever had) always recommend Rory Miller's "Meditations on Violence" to anybody looking into martial arts as a method of self defense.
Meditations on Violence
First, I'm not saying that it's either/or. However, just as there are a lot of people who mistakenly think that waving a gun around will magically make the evil go away, there are also a lot of people who mistakenly think that martial arts give them some magical advantage over anyone wielding a firearm. I'm going to assume that neither of us are subject to this kind of magical thinking.
Owning and carrying a firearm responsibly takes training and practice. Most law-abiding gun owners go to the range more than police do. We also learn the laws in our states regarding when it is legal or not legal to use a handgun in self-defense or defense of another.
Firearms work at a greater distance than martial arts. By the time someone is close enough for hand-to-hand fighting, you simply aren't going to have time to draw and fire a gun outside some very narrow circumstances. So, yes, martial arts can be useful, but they are not the be-all, end-all defense against firearms that some people like to claim. Nor are firearms the be-all, end-all defense against everything that some people like to claim, either.
Run if you can (I can't because I'm waiting for knee replacement surgery in both legs).
De-escalate if possible.
Fight or shoot as a very last resort.
My decision to get my permit and to carry was not made lightly, but three encounters I had in my taxi (when I was still capable of running) helped change my mind. You better believe I'm familiar with the laws regarding defensive gun use in my state. I also did a lot of reading about de-escalation and conflict avoidance, because even though I understand that I might someday need to shoot someone to defend myself, I'd really rather not have to. I recommend these four books:
The Art of the Con by Gary F. Cornelius;
The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker;
The Little Black Book of Violence by Lawrence Kane and Kris Wilder;
Meditations on Violence by Rory Miller.
You might read something like Rory Miller's Meditations on Violence or Facing Violence: Preparing for the Unexpected. They cover a lot of the same material, with Meditations being more of an essay about the nature of violence and Facing Violence providing more of an organized breakdown of each phase in a potential violent conflict. He talks a lot about different types of violence, how to identify them, and the facets and ramifications of violent encounters.
I think they are excellent reads for anyone thinking about self-defense issues. Reading them could be thought-provoking and make you reconsider or more confident in your existing decision.
Relevant Book:
"Meditations on Violence: A Comparison of Martial Arts Training & Real World Violence"
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Meet Rory Miller. Read his book, a comparison of martial arts training and real world violence. Go to one of his seminars.
So you say you want to learn "Self-defense". Self-defense isn't about fighting, actually if you're intelligent, you'll avoid fighting unless it's absolutely necessary.
You can try to find a self-defense school, although those are often women-only. If you find a good school, you'll learn about Awareness, Avoidance, De-escalation, a little bit about fighting and running. In general it's all about avoiding the threat before it becomes a danger.
Alternately, you also read this and this. Warning: graphic content (a bit). But violence isn't pretty, and if you want to learn about it, you need to learn about the ugly side.
The problem tends to be that most clubs don't discuss that and if they do, they don't make much mention of what the other options you must exhaust actually are. By the time you've been doing it 9 years like you (and I, for that matter) have you probably have a pretty good sense of how easy it is to get injured badly and you have enough sense as a result to work hard to avoid conflict.
My concern for OP is "orange-belt" syndrome, where someone has been doing MA for about 6 months and thinks their newly honed roundhouse kick is going to safe them in every dangerous situation.
Worth reading: Meditations on Violence: A Comparison of Martial Arts Training & Real World Violence
I highly recommend you check out this book. It goes into good detail about how martial arts training is not like actual violence and how to approach that problem philosophically. Unfortunately for you, most of it is about men and the "monkey dance" you see (most often) men do before they initiate violence. But it compares that with other kinds of violence. It said a lot of stuff I already knew but had difficulty expressing and was very eye opening.
Meditations on Violence and just about anything by [Rory Miller](https://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=as_li_qf_sp_sr_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=maxxpowessugg-20&keywords=rory miller&index=aps&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=xm2&linkId=1eb1199a1d579eebbbfd39beba3d7bc3).
Complete Krav Maga
Living with a SEAL: 31 Days Training with the Toughest Man on the Planet
The Five Rings: Miyamoto Musashi's Art of Strategy
The Mission, The Men, and Me: Lessons from a Former Delta Force Commander
A Professional's Guide to Ending Violence Quickly: How Bouncers, Bodyguards, and Other Security Professionals Handle Ugly Situations
Self defence for whom, against what, how soon do you need it?
https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Martial-Training/dp/1594391181
No, you should read up more on how self-defense works so you have an accurate context for your Wing Chun training instead of just comparing it to MMA and wondering why it is coming up short. I recommend Meditations on Violence, but there are others. Then if you still are dissatisfied with your Wing Chun go ahead and switch. If you have been training Wing Chun long enough to be a teaching assistant you owe it to your body and your students to try and understand why you do what you've been doing. And if you can't be bothered to read a single 200ish page book on self-defense and martial arts then you probably shouldn't be teaching either WC or MMA. Don't switch before you do at least a minimum of outside research on the subject you've been teaching.
Edit: https://youtu.be/uPqpmSWwuGk
Edit 2: lol it's a day old account.
http://www.amazon.ca/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Martial-Training/dp/1594391181
You need to read these two books:
http://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Martial-Training/dp/1594391181
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_24?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=little%20black%20book%20of%20violence&sprefix=little+black+book+of+vio%2Cstripbooks%2C145
I'd say an accurate understanding of self-defense. Right now you are prey not predator. You may be victim to anti-social violence and aren't sure how to protect yourself. Plenty of people are in the same situation.
I would read Sgt. Rory Miller's "Meditations on Violence" and perhaps take a course. It doesn't matter what you have at your disposal if you don't understand the basics of having the BASIC HUMAN RIGHT to defend yourself, and how that begins with teh right to be rude, right to cause someone physical damage.
A small house cat with its claws and teeth can respond with enough agression and force to make a grown man let it go, can you do the same?
I'd say the book is worth the money for the mindset alone:
http://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Martial-Training/dp/1594391181
or his other book "Facing Violence" which i admittedly havent read yet.
Edit: I am a 24 yr old male who lives in a large city, practicing Martial Arts (Muay Thai) and found this book over at r/martialarts
I would strongly recommend you read Meditations on Violence by Rory Miller. It's about ten bucks on amazon. I kept seeing it recommended on martial arts forums and gun forums, and finally bought a copy myself a couple years ago. It changed the way I thought about training for violence.
I'm a big fan of CCW and big fan of full-contact martial arts. It's good to have both under your belt. If you've never had a violent encounter, you need to hear what Miller has to say about the effects of adrenaline on your fine motor skills, and about the different levels of adrenalization. The chemical cocktail released into your system when rock climbing is completely different from that released when some douchebag takes a swing at you but you're still thinking "I got this," and these are both different from the cocktail released when two guys jump out at you with knives and you realize in an instant that you might die. It's pretty much impossible to train for the highest levels of adrenalization, which is one of the main points of the book. So you train around it.
Here's a link: http://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Martial-Training/dp/1594391181/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=07E4513832JW79WN8SP4
This. As Rory Miller writes in Meditations on Violence: (paraphrased) "If martial arts is going to save your life, it's because it teaches you to fall correctly or don't get a heart attack.
Edit: here are a couple of blog posts a friend of mine wrote on the subject of falling and moving on the ground:
Some basics on falling (there's a video in part II)
Some warm-up and movement exercises done on a concrete floor. These have the added bonus of getting you used to relaxing when falling.
As far as the kind of martial art, there are many that could help you. So long as it has striking, some grappling, maybe some ground game, you'll be fine--maybe you'll do a few of them and mix and match. You're athletic so the only thing you need is muscle memory for techniques and strategy.
The most important thing though is to train to react, think, and understand what is going to happen when you're in a violent situation. Read this book by Rory Miller:
http://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Martial-Training/dp/1594391181
Going to a good MMA gym where you do good medium contact sparring will help you inoculate your nerves so you don't freeze so much, get used to taking hits and etc... However, the best defense will always be the ability to read a situation and how to avoid it.
> Keep your hands close, preferably touching something or lightly moving. I put one under the opposite elbow, splinting my ribs, and the other, usually stroking my jaw. It keeps you from visibly shaking (and neither you nor the threat needs to see you shake). If you can hear your heartbeat, slow it down. It does work.
From: Meditations on Violence, Rory Miller
Marc MacYoung and Rory Miller off the top of my head. I think there are a few more in the line. Miller's Meditations on Violence is probably the definitive one, but there are several more in the line. Strong on Defense is another classic. Those are the type of thing i mean.
Listen- being a troll is one thing, but you’re giving advice that is not just absolutely wrong on its face, it’s dangerous.
You don’t understand the difference between competition and self-defense. Citing how a well-trained champion sport fighter survived some conflict in front of a hotel with some people doesn’t prove that competition focused arts are better for self-defense. The OP literally asked about Average Joe. So not only is your advice bad, your actual cognitive ability and literacy is questionable.
Everything you are saying is so devoid of a basic common sense and experience that I really am just going to let you get your last word in and then ignore you. Please stop giving people dangerously incorrect advice with no experience behind it.
OP: The image is from this book: https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Martial-Training/dp/1594391181
Meditations on Violence. Excellent read.