Best wash bottles for labs according to redditors
We found 77 Reddit comments discussing the best wash bottles for labs. We ranked the 26 resulting products by number of redditors who mentioned them. Here are the top 20.
We found 77 Reddit comments discussing the best wash bottles for labs. We ranked the 26 resulting products by number of redditors who mentioned them. Here are the top 20.
I have a bunch of plants on a shelf and I like to water them with a wash bottle, like the kind they use in science labs. Something like this. It gives a lot of control over where the water goes and keeps the plants leaves dry.
Get a few of these! Hmm, might be worth stocking up on other common postpartum comfort items--a lot of folks recommend sitting on menstrual pads that have been soaked in witch hazel and/or stuck in the freezer, for example.
my baseline general water gig: 2x 1L smart/life bottles dirty, 1x 700mL smart/life clean. Have sports caps on sawyer and 700mL.
I thread my bidet cap thing right onto a dirty bottle. Between the angle I use it at shooting backwards between legs and the 'L' angle of the bidet nozzle thing like these I cannot possibly fathom poo flecks getting into the bottle.
add in a 2L CNOC next if I need more capacity, then adding a third dirty 1L for the PCT this year. Maybe get crazy with it and swap a 1L for a clean 700mL and carry both on shoulder straps
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ninja edit: also won't catch me dead without my 3.7g capri sun water scoop. lets me fill all my capacity to the tippy top even with just a trickle on the surface of a rock or less than 1 inch puddle
edit2: so as not to propagate bad practices, see u/reset2pt0 's comments in this thread about dirty vs clean water for bidet-ing so that you can make an informed decision on how best to splash your leather cheerio clean
I water mine with this: ACM Economy Wash Bottle, LDPE, Squeeze Bottle Medical Label Tattoo (250ml / 8oz / 1 Bottle) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WTHLR18/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_6M-BDbHY9AXQJ
It’s awesome!! Good luck 👍
​
|mobo|$290|AORUS Z390 Master|
|:-|:-|:-|
|gpu|$700|AORUS 1080 ti Xtreme|
|ram|$360|G.Skill TridentZ RGB 4x8 3200 Mhz|
|cpu|$360|Intel i7 8700k 5Ghz OC|
|psu|$156|Corsair RM1000i Gold|
|nvme|$138|Samsung 970 EVO 500GB 2280 SSD|
|case|$150|Corsair Obsidian 500D|
|fans|$56|Corsair SP120|
|rgb fans|$110|Corsair LL120 RGB|
|cables|$105|CableMod PRO ModMesh C-Series RMi|
|240 rad|$66|EKWB EK-CoolStream SE 240 Slim Dual|
|360 rad|$90|EKWB EK-CoolStream PE 360 Dual|
|gpu wb|$165|EK-FC1080 GTX Ti Aorus RGB - Nickel|
|gpu bp|$47|EK-FC1080 GTX Ti Aorus Backplate - Nickel|
|cpu wb|$72|Phanteks Glacier C350i|
|kit|$60|Thermaltake PETG 16mm OD Bending Kit|
|pump|$100|EKWB EK-D5 PWM G2 Pump|
|res|$126|Watercool HEATKILLER Tube 200 D5|
|res top|$21|Watercool HEATKILLER Multiport Top 200|
|stand|$19|Watercool HEATKILLER Stand (Long)|
|riser|$27|Thermaltake PCI-E x16 3.0 Riser Cable 200mm|
|coolant|$56|XSPC EC Opaque White Coolant (qty 2)|
|fittings|$54|Thermaltake Pacific 90 Degree Adapters|
|fittings|$110|Thermaltake Pacific 16mm Compression Fittings (qty 2)|
|fittings|$26|Bitspower 5mm Male to Male 4-Pack|
|fittings|$20|Barrow Stop Plug 4-Pack|
|fittings|$15|Thermaltake Stop Plug 4-Pack|
|fittings|$14|XSPC Ball Valve|
|tubing|$40|Thermaltake 1000mm V-Tubler PETG 16mm 4-Pack|
|paste|$40|Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut|
|isopropyl|$18|NTE Isopropyl 99.9%|
|bottle|$11|1000ml fill bottle|
|foam|$13|1/4 inch thick foam insulation|
|heat gun|$25|Furno 300 Heat Gun|
||$3649||
||||
|mouse pad|$26|Reflex Lab XXXL 36" x 18" Mouse Pad|
|chair|$175|Techni Mobili RTA-5004-BK Rta-5004-Bk Office Chair|
|arm pads|$18|Aloudy Ergonomic Memory Foam Arm Covers|
|monitor|$900|Acer Predator x34p Ultrawide QHD G-Sync|
|stand|$100|AmazonBasics Premium Single 25lb Monitor Stand|
|cable|$18|Accell DisplayPort 1.2 Cable 10ft|
||$4886||
||||
|mouse|$50|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum RGB|
|keyboard|$110|https://www.amazon.com/MODEL-Corsair-Gaming-Mechanical-Keyboard/dp/B00N2ROO2S|
||$5046||
​
I use one of these
https://www.amazon.com/Nalgene-2407-1000-Wide-Mouth-Bottle-1000mL/dp/B00RZQ8PWC/
with the tip cut off and a bit of irrigation hose attached. This allows me great control when watering small plants or succulents. It also works great for terreriums that have plants you don't want to get the leaves wet.
https://i.imgur.com/aW31bUP.jpg
Thought someone might find this useful! Happy growing.
has anyone used this style for butt washing? most ul bidet solutions are just nozzles that attach to water bottles, but I cant get over the mental hurdle of getting my water bottle near my asshole everyday. thinking I want something with a dedicated bottle: ACM Economy Wash Bottle, LDPE, Squeeze Bottle Medical Label Tattoo (250ml / 8oz / 1 Bottle)
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how's the squirt? what size would be best? any lighter options (this one says 1.12oz)?
My favorite similar idea, get under the leaves, but you don't have to turn it upside down and it has a longer nozzle.
I laughed out loud at that last bit! I have one similar to the second one (just squeeze, no battery), but I found that fancier doesn't mean better. Literally just this plain ol squeeze bottle was way easier to use, aim, clean, etc (https://www.amazon.com/Medline-MEDDYND70125-Cleansing-Bottle-8oz/dp/B01M2BKNLE/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1526059814&sr=8-5&keywords=squirt+bottle)
Depending on where you're located and your accessibility to amazon.com, I buy unscented foaming soap and a tattoo spray bottle like this https://www.amazon.com/ACM-Economy-Bottle-Squeeze-Medical/dp/B00WTHLR2M/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1500688799&sr=8-5&keywords=squirt+bottle . Put foam on, rinse it with the squirt bottle, good to go. That's my LITHA when I'm away from running water (like when I go camping).
Edit to add: when camping, use bottled water. Camp/lake water is full of all sorts of gross stuff.
Do you mean a squeeze bottle? You should be able to get them at any restaurant supply.
Washing my face while getting everything wet irked me too, so I looked on ebay and found my solution. I nowuse a "lab wash bottle" with a bent spout. Mine is around 500ml. Here is one similar @ amazon. I fill it up once then turn off water at sink. Once I wipe off my oil cleanser, I lather up my foaming cleanser in my hand & after massaging my face to clean it, I just bend over sink and point the nozzle at my face & squeeze bottle to rinse my face. It's super easy & I don't waste water. No wet sleeves or floor. :)
I don't like Skurka's method. I use force.
Enter this bottle: [backcountry bedet]( https://www.amazon.com/Economy-Bottle-Squeeze-Medical-Tattoo/dp/B00WTHLR18/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=scientific+wash+bottle&qid=1572882853&sr=8-4 )
The top cap screws on perfectly to a smartwater bottle. That is the only thing I bring and I think it weighs .4oz. When I have to do the deed, I dig a hole, poop then have a smartwater bottle with this thing screwed onto the top. I just invert it, aim and blast my b hole. Using about .25L I can get squeaky clean in all but the worst conditions. I generally use 1-3 squares to dry up and make sure that I am GTG.
WAY more effective than just waterfalling down your ass crack.
Utility cart. There are smaller ones in case you are limited on space. That with a bucket or plastic shoe box as a sani bath comes in handy. Beats having to juggle parts between the rack to where you need it.
Nail apron. Carry a multi-tool, sharpie, pen, notepad, keg caps when washing/filling kegs, or a TC/gasket from time to time. I have some overalls with a nail apron on it. It looks goofy but you can never have too many pockets.
Painter's tape. Leaves little to no residue on stainless, fold down one end so it's easier to peel off later. Label just about everything in the brewery with it.
Squeeze bottles for filling keg valves after cleaning/filling. Don't have to deal with priming a spray bottle when you're running low and at the end of the day you're wasting less ethanol (if that's what you use).
>Almost like it's too full to empty, if that makes sense?
This is totally a possibility. The bladder is a muscle that is triggered to contract (and thereby pee) when it is stretched out by urine. If it gets too full, it can lose some the sensation and have a hard time contracting effectively.
Some tricks for reluctant bladders (sorry if formatting's wonky, I'm on mobile):
Use a peri bottle to get the flow started. Fill it with warm (not hot) water and gently run it over your lady bits to help the stream start. This will be great postpartum too, especially if you have stitches to mitigate stinging sensation.
Take slow deep breaths and blow out slowly with slightly pursed lips like you're blowing bubbles.
Put a couple drops of peppermint oil in the bowl of the toilet . (Not on your lady bits! Just near the front of the bowl on the porcelain above the water line)
If you're still having a hard time, sometimes sitting backwards on the toilet so you are straddling it can help change the angle and make it easier.
All that said, I would still definitely recommend mentioning this to your OB just in case it is a UTI or something else out of the norm going on. Bladder issues left untreated can turn into much worse problems.
And clean! So many failures are due to not cleaning your probe after each use. Keeping a wash bottle with some distilled/RO water next to where you store/clean your meter helps a lot.
Buy extra fittings. Things can change once you're into the build. Extra 90, rotary, couple straights.
Don't worry about loop order other than reservoir above pump. Shortest tubing runs with the fewest turns is key.
Get some silver or copper sulfate to add to the water. It's the biocide.
Use this to fill the loop. Easier and cleaner than using the little funnel. Just cut back the tip to allow more flow, insert inside tubing. No spills.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008ASY406
Buy the cheapest power supply you can find(15-20 bucks) and use it to run your pump for leak test and evacuating air bubbles. This makes things so much easier. Plus, you can do cable management while leak testing this way.
I recommend it, Good luck!
Remember to secure the plastic wrap with tape or a rubberband. I am using a rubberband. I also have a squeezable squirt water bottle with a pointy nozzle on it to keep the water level touching the plastic. Just poke a hole to squirt water in, makes it much easier.
Like this
Safety Wash Bottle, Squeeze Bottle, Narrow Mouth, Plastic (250ml / 8oz / 2 Bottle) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074W51ZXX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_7RpXCbS6HFG7A
Like this??
I’ve also thought those plastic scientific bottles with the long stem would work well, too, as a hand held bidet. Wash Bottle LDPE Bottle with Narrow Mouth 250ml 500ml (Pack of 2) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073J55373/
As the other comment said, Isopropyl Alcohol. It's recommended you get something higher than 90%. A bottle of 91% IPA is available at Walmart for $2.50. I bought that 32oz bottle when I first got my printer and I've maybe only used about 2/3 of it so far so it'll last you quite a while.
I dispense mine from a squeeze bottle like this onto the print bed and then wipe it down with a clean paper towel. Feel free to ask more questions if you have any. I'll be happy to answer :)
Maybe stop by a laboratory supply store and grab a lab squirt bottle, I hate rubbing anything on a pcb that might leave little bits behind (even though people use q tips all the time,) though it's likely this residue won't simply lift away. Spray bottle will be good for in the pci-e slot and such.
https://www.amazon.com/Economy-Bottle-Squeeze-Medical-Tattoo/dp/B00WTHLR18/ref=asc_df_B00WTHLR18/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198059287844&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12565168165468540085&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019550&hvtargid=pla-385033840497&psc=1
Totally disassemble everything and spray it down. Consider doing it over a tray to recapture the alcohol for reuse if it's not overly cloudy, and finish with a rinse using fresh alcohol.
Pretend like this is a brand new PC. you just acquired all the parts to put it together, but there's one tiny jumper SOMEWHERE on the board that will short everything and brick it. You just gotta clean it all and it's a perfect PC again!
Also a chance to redo that annoying bit of cable management that you didn't notice you messed up, and was too minor to take it apart for.
I don't have a Hitz, and my experience with portable distillate is limited to Ccell carts and a few other odds and ends. But...
My tips:
You want to save, I presume, as much of that as possible. You should be able to disassemble the top and bottom metal portions by twisting them. You may want to take photos as you disassemble, so you'll have a good guide. You will probably want to hit it with a hairdrier for a minute or two to loosen things up. You'll also want to remove the o-rings while things are warm. Once you've got a few pieces, I suggest putting them in a small, flat-bottmed glass container. Like this, but smaller. Put your pieces there, "set to drain". The glass should be upright, stuff tilted so distillate is toward the bottom. Warm the oven - 175F is plenty - and put it in once the oven is hot. Don't want that preheat causing issues.
I rinse my o-rings in iso, but I don't leave 'em soak. I've heard other folks use other, likely better, solutions. I wash them with distilled water for good measure.
Once I've heated and collected The Fallen (salvaged), it's time to really clean. I put all the pieces in a ziplock. I'd use the gallon size for this. Get them all to a corner, and fill with 90+% iso, only need to the top of the parts. Bonus points for grain alcohol.
Mostly-seal this bag and immerse it in a bowl of water. You're trying to push the air out of the bag. Once that's done, seal it up. Run hot water into the bowl for a few minutes, and give the bag a good shake. Massage it around for a bit. Set it back in the water and run the tap on a hot drip for ten mins. Be careful if you put the glass in this; I suggest doing it separate. I also don't know what your tip is made out of, iso can damage some plastics.
One more shake and see what you've got. Should be pretty clean. If there are still spots, you can attack them with a qtip. Rinse everything really well -- I use a small separate, clean-iso bath for everything and then rinse the parts with clean iso after that. If you're really cool, buy a lab wash bottle and do it right.
Rinse with distilled water and dry. You'll want to lubricate any parts that need it, (maybe a fill-port hinge, I dunno) and replace the atomizer at this point. Some people use things to support or swell up the o-rings. I have no experience with this. Check the threads and hit them with a dry toothbrush if there is any debris. Also check the airpath for anything stubborn.
Reassemble and you should be good to go. I used the big ecig tanks for a couple of years, and I don't think there is a lot of difference. Luck, and apologies for this... ramble of advice. I'm pretty certain that it is valid, but I'm lit up light a goddamn christmas tree.
And anyone wanting a cheaper option for the bottle: amazon bottles
They are only half the capacity but less than half the price.
I made some for my first baby (pads + witch hazel + aloe gel) but I never used them. The hospital sent me home with witch hazel pads and Dermoplast spray, that was all I needed. One thing that really did help was to have an extra squeeze bottle for post partum cleansing since you can't wipe for a while. The hospital sent me home with one but I had another on hand just in case and it was handy to throw in the diaper bag when we left the house.
You could surely find some on Amazon (make sure it is the right plastic) or just throw one in with an order from Bull City Vapor. (Link #1) (Link #2)
Or you can get something like this. Might need to modify it slightly for VG though.
I got these: SUPERLELE 6pcs LDPE 250ml 8.5oz... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PLTQPQF?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
They are LDPE plastic and are excellent for lacquer thinners based on this chart here. https://www.calpaclab.com/ldpe-chemical-compatibility-chart/
Those caps that Dan listed look pretty good, I may try them out!
This comes up every so often, I think this post is the only one listed in the wiki but if you search you'll find quite a few lists. Here's what things I found useful, to that I would add one of these perineal cleaning bottles that can be used for bidet/douching/general cleaning. It'll vary as different surgeons give you different supplies; for Suporn and I think a few others they just give you a donut and it's better than the one I was planning to buy.
For bed pads I've been using disposable despite having a few reusable hospital-type ones, as you probably won't have much energy to clean them for a while and water-based lube tends to be messy and gross and get everywhere compared to oil-based lube you can use later on. I managed to reuse them each once, but you're going to be generating a lot of trash (lube, pads, etc) anyway, so it's best not to feel too bad about it and focus on recovery in the short term imo.
Something like this?
We have the same child lol. I use the squirt bottle I got after giving birth it is like a mini shower head with multiple streams. More control over the water and less water in the face.
https://www.amazon.com/Medline-Perineal-Irrigation-Cleansing-Bottle/dp/B01M2BKNLE
ACM Economy Wash Bottle, LDPE,... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WTHLR18?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
I use this to keep the plants that like their soil to stay moist, or plants that don't like moisture on their leaves! Really handy little tool
Not gonna lie, a little bit but I got a special fill bottle that I use for water cooled computers. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WTHLR0E/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_IEYlDbQVPK7KW
Peri bottles. Just fill with warm water and use to clean the outer parts of your genitals.
Never put water or soap inside of your vagina, only on the outside.
I just went through this myself and am very happy with my purchases. This is a complete entry level set with the tools you will need to maintain it. Assuming you're US based, you could have everything Monday with Prime shipping.
This will allow you to setup a bare-bones station. You could also get a fume hood or just spray into a box in a well ventilated room. Get a good white led light (if you don't have on already) to illuminate your workspace and you're good to go.
Yep, or if you are afraid of getting the baby leaves wet, I also use one of these for more precise watering: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07MYT12HG/
That's my assumption too, that the roots are still shallow. Perhaps alternating between top and bottom watering for a while would help encourage them to grow out without causing dehydration? I use a precision squeeze bottle like this and it does help with avoiding leaves to an extent: https://www.amazon.com/Economy-Bottle-Squeeze-Medical-Tattoo/dp/B00WTHLR18/ref=sr_1_10?keywords=squeeze+bottle&qid=1572211503&sr=8-10
Try a perineal cleansing bottle, fill it with warm water and give your butt a spray before you wipe.
Squirt some isopropyl on the surface and wipe w/ paper towels.
70% iso is cost effective for cleaning work surfaces.
Was going to look into this a long time ago, then just got several labrotory wash bottles on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/ULAB-Scientific-Self-Venting-ISOPROPANOL-Wide-Mouth/dp/B07MTCVCMS/ref=mp_s_a_1_35?ie=UTF8&qid=1557067881&sr=1-35&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&dpPl=1&dpID=414SSx%2B9gRL&ref=plSrch
Work well enough.
Someone posted success with buying distilled water and using one of those tattoo water bottle spray/pump
They sell them in lots of 3 or 5 on amazon too.
I use a shitload of acetone around the shop.
Get it at homeless despot by the gallon can, and buy some of those clear acetone/alchohol bottles on amazon - I bought a 3 pack, one for acetone, one for isoproponol, and one for tap-magic.
https://www.amazon.com/Medline-Postpartum-Perineal-Irrigation-Cleansing/dp/B00KHKHXBC
Something like this?
https://www.amazon.com/Safety-Bottle-Squeeze-Narrow-DEPEPE/dp/B07DB1HCKP/ref=sr_1_4?
Rather than remove the foil seal completely, I poke a hole in it with a toothpick. Works pretty nicely.
For a more controlled alternative, Wash bottles are fairly inexpensive and can hold a wide variety of liquids.
I use this so I can get to the soil and don’t get the leaves wet.
After every use I strip the airbrush down completely. I use a bottle like this:
https://www.amazon.com/ACM-Economy-Bottle-Squeeze-Medical/dp/B00WTHLR2M/
to blast water through the nozzle and to clean the excess paint out of the pot. I use a soft cloth to clean the needle. Once a month I soak the pot in simple green to clean out excess paint.
That's all I do and I've never had a clogged airbrush. The aircap I'm currently using is about a year old and the needle is over a year old.
Any cleaning procedure that leaves liquid in the aircap/nozzle will corrode the nozzle and shorten its life.
I carry a peri bottle. It's excellent for rinsing myself and my cup.
Bottles like these:
https://www.amazon.com/Medline-DYND70125-MEDLINE-Perineal-Irrigation/dp/B000TQGXW4/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1499190497&sr=8-1&keywords=Perineal+Irrigation+Bottle%2C
should work for what you need. They are designed to squirt lady parts after childbirth, so they squirt on an upwards angle.
This works. For VG, I used an 8-oz barbeque sauce bottle for a while then bought 16-oz HDPE bottles. I can turn it upside down and squeeze the hell out of it with no leaks around the cap (unlike the seeping from my cheapie bottle). The bottle opening is a little small but I have no trouble with refilling it from a gallon jug.
For PG, I use a 250ml laboratory-type wash bottle. Works great, and no funnel required to refill this one either. No leakage around the cap because you don't need to invert it.
For nic (PG base), I use a setup like this 2-oz LDPE bottle with Luer Lock cap and 14-gage dispensing needle. One squeeze gives about 1 gram delivery and gravity-only flow is about 0.1g /second. Easy to use.
I think that sounds very flammable and overly complicated. a spray bottle with a narrow stream and alcohol would be better IMO.
[something like this] (https://cdn-img-1.wanelo.com/p/5f7/ae9/a08/989da9c15aefe6d6a9fae8e/x354-q80.jpg)
[or this] (https://www.amazon.com/Karter-Scientific-210P3-Capacity-Polypropylene/dp/B005Z4RGQW/ref=pd_lpo_328_lp_t_4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=JBJN05XZ7PDPZCH5JY5Y)
One of these are good for the range to clean out the salts. Makes it super easy.
There’s something called a perineal irrigation bottle that you can carry around in a backpack/purse, or wet wipes, or just adapt to toilet paper (when outdoors).
Toilet paper generally works fine but yeah, fuck cleaning yourself with TP if you have diarrhea.
I have been there. Since it's been 2.5 weeks, I'd say you're clear for any socket issues. I actually went out to Walmart and bought a DenTek tooth scraping kit... it was $5-7 at the time but it had some plastic scraping tools and gum stimulators inside. The rubber/plastic tips are spiky and perfect for gently poking things out of the holes. Then, flush. Also, a wash bottle is great, too but be careful with how much pressure you can stand. They just flush away :D
Here's some links to what these products look like. Should be able to find similar in a local big box retailer. Also, be very careful if you get the Dentek Kit. Home cleaning is great, but scraping can be damaging to your enamel & gums if you aren't sure what you're doing or how often to do it.
https://www.amazon.com/Economy-Bottle-Squeeze-Medical-Tattoo/dp/B00WTHLR2M/ref=sr_1_3_acs_ac_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1537011518&sr=8-3-acs&keywords=wash+bottle
https://www.amazon.com/Dentek-Professional-Removes-Contains-Stimulator/dp/B008YEMWOG/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1537011651&sr=8-1&keywords=dentek+tool+kit
Fuck Keurigs! Just buy an AeroPress. It's so much cheaper per cup, is practically self cleaning, and makes better coffee. You can make it as strong as you want, and can even make espresso ("coffee concentrate" if you want to be very technical.) And you can use whatever coffee you want!
Rather than spending all that money on a fancy brewer, and then $1 per cup of coffee, buy a Zojirushi Boiler (or similar), and you can make coffee nearly as fast as with a Kurig. I don't mean within 15 seconds, but so short that you won't hesitate to make a cup. Or you can just nuke some water in a Pyrex measuring cup, but that takes 2-3 minutes.
I own that exact boiler and an AeroPress, and it's amazing. I have 195° water on tap all of the time, and the 4 qt one is tall enough to dispense right into an AeroPress on top of a tall mug.
I even use an AeroPress at work at my desk even though there's a Keurig available. I get hot water from the water dispenser (combo water cooler/heater that work provides), use the AeroPress normally, push the grounds into the waste basket, then wash the remaining grounds off of the plunger with a chemistry wash bottle right into the waste basket, too. (There's a trash bag in it, and it's not much water.)